Would you think that taking off your shirt in celebration is less reprehensible than placing the ball outside the area to gain a slight advantage? I would. Yet, players get a yellow card for that.
No, you don't think that -- you're just making this argument in bad faith. If you don't think VAR is useful on offsides which lead to goals, or handballs, you can't claim to think it would be useful for corner-kick ball-placement, can you? No, it's just another bad-faith argument to petty-fog the actual issue. But unfortunately, it's just not really relevant. Because of the concept of gradation. Yes, it might help them very, very slightly. However it is in no way directly comparable to assessing whether or not a handball in the box occurred, is it? That was rhetorical... the answer is "no it's not", also because of gradation. Smoked fish isn't pungent? That's a new one on me. Regardless, the red herring of bringing up Nazis when talking about the alteration of the laws of the game remains wildly off-topic because of your focus on "pungency" rather than relevance. It is merely a misdirection. It's useless in the context of this discussion.
I don't think that's a particularly good rule... but once again, it comes down to reason. What is the reason for the rule? You and I may disagree, but I bet that the people that started that law had at least a couple good reasons to implement it, and I think it had nothing to do with "cheating". But either way, you could get rid of it and I really wouldn't care. Again this is just an argument in bad faith by you though... unless you're saying players that take corner kicks from balls not on the corner spot should be given yellows? You don't think that nonsense, do you? Please don't do these bad-faith arguments anymore. I'm happy to keep hashing this stuff out but only if you can actually stay relevant. Corner-kick spots, taking off shirts, the pass-back kickoff... the Nazis... these things continue to not be relevant.
No. I 'm saying if they are going to implement it, that would be a reasonable thing to have it do. Like I said previously. It would take no time because no player would do it if they knew that it would get called back if a goal occurred. It's an obvious fix. It has nothing to do with my liking/disliking or wanting/not-wanting VAR. I'm saying it's something that could be effectively done with VAR if they bring it in. I'll be the judge of whether I mean something or not here.
I don't know why you keep making the point of conflating these things just because they are being discussed in one thread. I must have said 5 times that I agree that they have noting to do with each other in importance. The problem with this corner-kick argument is that (if VAR were in use and it looked at the placement of the ball in that situation) then in fact Trent would never actually place the ball outside the zone, due to his knowing that he would get called back if they scored. It's all a pointless argument you are having with me about this because the temporal nature of it is wonky. It will only happen without VAR looking at it. I brought it up as an example of something that VAR should fix (if VAR is being used). It wouldn't work like all my other examples as a bit of a bridge too far, putting a strain on people's willingness to take the time-outs to assess VAR decisions. Because it would never happen anymore (except maybe at the same random rate as that of a bad throw-in) for the obvious reason already stated. I'll bet that they thought they had a couple of good reasons to implement it. The world is littered with the results of people thinking they had good reason for making unnecessary decisions.
For the record. The corner kick thing isn't a bad faith argument - just an observation about cheating really. I never said it was that important or in any way equivalent to handballs, offsides, etc The centre - kick rule thing I am dead serious about, just haven't had the time to parse my thoughts.. besides, Delaynomo suggested not last week, so I waited till this one!
NO ONE is interested in implementing some version of VAR which addresses every single little thing that can give a team/player some tiny little advantage in a match... least of all you, because you don't even want it for handballs and offside goals, right? So how can you be here representing that it's a "reasonable" thing to use VAR to judge coner-kick ball placement? That's why it's a dishonest argument. First of all, players try to get away with shit all the time regardless of punishment, for instance they are constantly trying to take free kicks further away from where the foul occurred, or when the ball is still rolling, and they get called out on in and have to re-take those kicks all the time. So you're just wrong here. Second, that doesn't matter because players don't actually try to get away with unfair corner-kick placement to a significant degree, ironically for the same reason VAR isn't designed to police it... it provides almost no real benefit to them to move the ball over 1-3 inches so it isn't on the corner spot. The "advantage" is minimal, at best. This should be really, really obvious, but that's the reason that it's enough to have the rule exist as it does and have the ref spot it when he does. To stop the game so VAR can police where the ball is placed on corner kicks is a complete waste of resources. So once more, the only thing you're showing here is your inability to understand the differences in the relative impacts these things have on the match.
It doesn't matter, you're still asking for resources that are reserved for important calls actually be expanded to cover corner kick placement. That's why it's dishonest... you don't think it should be in for assessing handballs, but then say it should apply to bullshit like where the ball is for corner kicks. That's not a valid argument. This isn't being done in a vacuum, this is still about the practical application of resources. And because of that it's a waste of time to use those resources in order to more closely scrutinize something which has almost no impact on the outcome of matches. The resources should be allocated where they are needed only, on calls that unfairly mess up match outcomes.
You don't need to "say" it -- the way you are using the case of corner-kick ball-placement is conflating it with handballs and offsides that result in goals, because you are talking about how VAR reacts to what you call "cheating". So when you say "if VAR is in the game, it should look at these situations!", you are directly drawing comparison between those two things. And the fact that you say that, yet don't actually want VAR in the game, is what makes it a bad-faith argument.
You obviously have some conceptual inability to analyze what the word dishonest means. Please stop insinuating that I am wilfully engaging in something without asking about it as a specific first. I am not being in the least bit dishonest about this. The problem here is that you are overlooking how this friggin' subject came up. (So) The History: I (keeping in mind that I did not bother to read the rules of VAR) was musing (incorrectly, as it turned out) about a funny/funky situation which might one day occur when a VAR ref decided to call back a goal because the player was too stupid to place the ball in the clearly defined area for the corner. You then put the issue to rights by stating that it is not an infraction worthy of the analysis of VAR, due to the need to limit VAR to really serious stuff, for reasons of game-flow, practical resources, etc. All of which makes sense. However, I wasn't saying that VAR should be used to assess this - I was jokingly alluding to how it would make people like me and Sam laugh if it happened. Before you said that it can't happen under the rules. (so to) The Present: You keep alluding to further mentions of this (for whatever reason it gets re-mentioned) as if I am arguing about the idea that it is of some variant of importance enough for it to be included into the VAR scenarios of operation. I'm not. What I'm saying is that it occurs to me, (now) when thinking about this particular issue, that it actually is one which virtually solves itself IF VAR is brought in and IF it were to be included in VAR. The reason it solves itself is that no player would be stupid enough to place a ball outside that area if they knew that VAR will simply call it back if a goal is scored. So, because it would never happen as something to have to be analyzed it would be of no extra load to include it in any implementation of VAR. ((There wouldn't be any extra resource usage. The upstairs refs would have already seen where the ball was before it was kicked. It's either in, or out. They already know. We all know. The guy placing it knows! No resources wasted.)) My saying this says absolutely nothing about my wanting VAR or not, and as such, is not in any way dishonest. It's just a logical application that I could see being quite easily effective if the system to apply it is put in place. My feelings about the need for the system overall are bloody irrelevant to the logic of this minor analysis, and certainly not dishonest.
Look - There are different forms of cheating in life. Whilst not an important component of cheating in the terms of the game, it is of some important in the signals it gives out to young kids watching about blatantly cheatiung I would contend that it is worse than the trying to gain yardage on free-licks, simply because those doing that are doing it under the eyes of the referee and its implicit that the can be caught. The guys fooling around with the corner kicks are giving off a somewhat different primer signal - one which says "It's okay to cheat when you can't be seen doing it. We can disagree on which is the worse type, but I go with that type of semiotic signal."
message to mods: can we either (a) kill this thread and / or (b) kill zaq and hobo's ability to debate VAR ever again?
It's harmless. My biggest problem is that there isn't a single new argument being put forward one way or the other at this point. every time a new incident occurs - the arguments/discussion are rehashed, repackaged and revisited in a different format.
It's at the very least a catch-all, which gives the thread value... no other discussions can be derailed by VAR talk simply because of this thread's existence.
This doesn't matter and is STILL not relevant. Dishonest means a lot of different things. I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose or that you're a dishonest person. If you want to get away from bad-faith talk, that's fine -- the way you bring up and conflate examples of "cheating" makes your argument a quite poor one. I'm not using the word "dishonest" the way you are... so agree to disagree. But in short, read the rules -- VAR isn't trying to be effective at stamping out tiny, minor "cheating" infractions. No one cares about those. The big ticket cheating and missed calls, those are what VAR addresses. There's no actual need to address misplaced kicks on corners, it's something the linesman generally speaking does an ok job of looking at already and it has practically zero impact on the actual results of matches as it is. But if VAR were designed to waste everyone's time and/or maximally address ALL "cheating", then yeah, VAR could do a lot of things. But that's not really relevant to anything, for a lot of reasons.
Video Assistant Referees (VAR) could be introduced into the latter stages of this season's Champions League. European football's governing body Uefa announced in September that VAR will be phased in from 2019. However, Uefa has been discussing fast-tracking VAR for a number of weeks. Fears of high-profile, game-changing mistakes in the biggest games, coupled with the perception that VAR was a success at the World Cup, have prompted leading officials into a rethink. A penalty given to Manchester City against Shakhtar Donetsk on Wednesday, after Raheem Sterling appeared to trip himself up, is just the latest incident to attract criticism after a spot-kick was incorrectly awarded. Training and workshops for referees are continuing throughout Europe but it is thought there is growing confidence within Uefa that a sufficient number of officials are now up to speed - enough to introduce VAR for this season's latter stages. A decision could be announced in early December when Uefa's executive committee next meets. Meanwhile, Uefa president Alexander Ceferin has been confirmed as the sole candidate for next year's presidential election. The candidates to represent European football in world governing body Fifa have also been selected and will see IFA president David Martin going up against FA chairman Greg Clarke for the Fifa vice-president seat reserved for British associations.
😡 ANGRY AUSTIN 😡"It is a joke! We play in the Premier League - the officials have cost us two points!" Fair to say @chazaustin10 was not impressed with the officials in Southampton's draw with Watford: https://t.co/C6EMg2xej3 https://t.co/YYWfHGXACT— Sky Sports Premier League (@SkySportsPL) November 10, 2018
VAR voted in for next season in the prem, 2019/2020. Thank goodness for some evidence of common sense still in the world.