The Transgender Discussion [Strictly Moderated]

Well stated overall, @Sounders78!

 

Not to sound like some P&CErs whose ideology also ends with -arian, but now you're acting like a hate-filled gay lobbyist.

And I had to check the 1st post because I was sure the title was snark. It wasnt.

 

No, it wasn't. It was deliberately insulting. But it does have some historical value - look at how much Britain and America have changed in 7 years - the work of the hate-filled totalitarian gay lobby has been quite effective!

 

The only libertarian voices on this discussion have been "let people do what they want." #notallarians

 

But this is what I'm getting at. If we, as a society, let people dress how they want and love who they want and act however masculine and/or feminine and anything in between without societal pressures, then I doubt you would see such a rise in wanting surgery to change the genitals. It's an extreme answer to a problem.

 

Look, sounders, I totally get where you're coming from. I don't think I was telling you how to live your life. I was just explaining that I didn't understand the extreme nature of surgical operations on fully functioning, healthy body parts.
And since when are we not allowed to have opinions on things in this forum? 90% of people here are white males. I guess you aren't allowed to comment on anything involving minorities or women, huh? Cause you haven't walked in my flip flops, have you?

 

No one has been able to actually tell me what is on the gay agenda. I did find this but I don't know if it is legitimate.

 

Missing some critical items innit? I don't see anything about Dolly Parton or musical theater or convertible VW Bugs there?

 

It's not something I would do either but I'm not the one who looks in the mirror every day and sees a body that does not match how I perceive myself. I see the commercials on TV for people to have liposuction to change their body to make it more appealing to themselves. Apparently cisgender people are willing to pay good money to be able to look in the mirror and be happier with what they see. I'm not one of those people - if they want to align their self-image with their self-identity, it's just none of my business so I don't tell them they should just live the way I think they should.

Now, I appreciate your posts and recognize you don't mean to be "offensive" (I put that in quotation marks to make it a little more gentle) but some of what you wrote really came across to this LGBT+ identified person as dictating that we should live by your standards. What really set me off was this line of yours: "I just worry about people permanently mutilating their body for some grass is greener pie in the sky ideal of what is being the opposite sex." I'm not trans and I was offended by it. "Mutilating their body" , "Grass is greener pie in the sky", "ideal of what is being the opposite sex" - I wish you could have a chat with my trans-identified students. I think you would quickly understand why those phrases jump out as cisgender transphobic heterosexism.

You know what, I am certainly not going to tell minorities and women that they should or should not do things because it goes against how I live my life as a gay man. You know what, maybe I should - I mean, heterosexuals are always telling me how I should live and rebuking me for "shoving my lifestyle down their throat" (talk about a homophobic/misogynistic phrase)! Therefore, for the love of all that is good would you people stop bringing your children on airplanes! It's incredibly offensive to me. Leave your screaming whining seat-back kicking offspring where they belong - locked up in your homes or in your schools. Don't bring your screaming brats into my presence. Thank you!

 

Regarding the last point, it's quite an issue here in Cascadia:

 

I want a better title.

 

And for the Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake don't spend 10 minutes in the middle of a supermarket aisle questioning your 6 year old which one of the 250 types of breakfast cereal she/he wants.
They are not equipped to answer this question, really no one is.

 

How about:

Cisgender people discussing how transgender people should live.

I'm sorry @crazypete13 , moving this discussion to a new thread doesn't alleviate the offensive of this thread. A bunch of non-trans people discussing trans people and how those trans people should live? I'm sorry, it's just not cool. Should we create a thread for white people to talk about how blacks should live?

Or maybe we should have a discussion that in MLS games (or CCL games) whenever the fans yell p*** the other fans should yell "wet backs" or some other racist slur against Mexicans. You know, fair is fair.

 

The moment Montgomery Burns chooses a cereal because it looks like him (Count Chocula).

https://giphy.com/gifs/season-8-the-simpsons-8x21-3orieK9ddD4D6jlm8M

 

I was taking the piss out of pete, but in all seriousness, a thread should exist for people with your expertise on the trans community to educate the rest of us. Whatever you want it to be called, I'm happy with, but I learned a lot from your posts and hope that this new thread is a place where I can continue to learn.

 

I appreciate that. But there is a big difference between having to explain and defend oneself (and one's community) and having a discussion about how biological sex (male, female, intersex), sexual orientation (heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, etc) or gender identity (man, woman, cisgender, transgender, etc.) biologically develop and are culturally expressed. The former creates a very hostile environment for us, the latter creates more harmonious teaching moments. This thread is the former, not the latter. I have no desire to come to a thread that I perceive as hostile or antagonistic to the LGBT+ community.

 

I think most of us would want the latter. I in particular would like to know more about how current public policy could adapt to represent LGBT+ as well as it does cisgender individuals. Beyond wanting universal bathrooms, I'm in the dark.

 

Some of the issues we face that you don't include those related to retirement (and this ties directly in with what Republicans do that directly hurt the LGBT+ community).

We rely much more heavily on the social safety net than heterosexuals do. Not surprisingly, that is something Republicans are trying to dismantle. Many of us don't have children so we cannot rely on our children to take care of us as we get older and potentially become senile (think Alzheimer's, dementia, etc). And don't even think about relying on Christian churches for their social programs - they hate us.

LGBT+ who live in retirement homes/nursing communities find themselves living in a very hostile environment, where they are persecuted in their own retirement community homes.

Related to the above, many states (especially Southern) purposely discriminate against LGBT+ in adoption laws. They don't want us to raise children, coincidentally ensuring we don't have children to take care of us as we get older. Of course, they do this because they think we will corrupt the children (please ignore Donald Trump's lusty fantasies over Ivanka - that's perfectly normal and acceptable, given he is heterosexual).

The bathroom issue is actually quite significant. I'm not transgender and I am concerned every time I use a public toilet on my college campus. I'm totally defenseless in there. There's no way for me to quickly get help if someone decides to attack me. And I'm cisgender. Imagine what it is like for a transgender person. This is life-threatening stuff. American toilets are not like European or Australasian toilets where the doors go down all the way to the ground with no gaps between the door and the wall, so someone can have privacy. American toilets are designed in a way that leaves gaps between the door and the wall and a very large gap between the floor and the door. Why? It is an incredibly poor construction yet it is found widespread in American society, from airports to college campuses. Make toilets private for goodness sake! It's not hard to do - seriously!

Likewise, the athletic club I used to have a membership to had individual showers for females but communal showers for males. Imagine you, a heterosexual, had to take a shower with a bunch of naked females who regularly work out. How would you feel? Would you risk an erection? So why is it so common to have communal showers for males? Do you have any idea how horrific those are for gay men? No, we're not standing there lusting after your (typically fat) heterosexual bodies - we're doing what we can to ensure no one finds out we are gay because we could get killed for it. Do you know what would really help high school gay kids? Private individual showers. When I was in high school I didn't take a shower after gym class. I got called out on it (along with three others, including the football quarterback - ahem), and was told I had to take a shower. It was traumatic trying to make sure I never looked at anyone else's body and never got an erection. Good grief, 16-18 year old guys get an erection if they accidentally bump into a door knob and here I was surrounded by naked guys, forced to shower with them, and all the while terrified I would get an erection and get beaten up for it.

 

Hmm, the only LGBT+ person participating (at least that I know of) gets "into a twist" (and, mind you, I'm a G, not a T). That should tell you something. If this were a thread about Latinos where the only Latino participating got upset about the content, would you dismiss that Latino's opinion as being irrational? Maybe, just maybe, that Latino knows something that you don't.

 

I use LGBT+, not GLBT+, because I appreciate that men do not always come before women and women have historically been at the forefront of the equality movement. As such, I willingly and intentionally give them first recognition in the acronym I use . If the college group uses GLOW, good on them. I'm not going to dictate to them how they should identify themselves.