The things we hear returns - 2019 edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by djmtxref, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    I’m working as AR1 on a BHSV game and I hear a mom suggesting to another mom behind me that my position should be referred to as the Rump - a cross between referee and ump. Thankfully play took me away so I didn’t hear anymore of the discussion.
     
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  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    You sure she wasn't just appreciating the view of your good side?
     
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  3. Houston Ref

    Houston Ref Member

    Feb 15, 2013
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Co-ed Over 30 game. A forward gets trapped by two defenders near the corner flag. The ball is deflected off the forward's leg across the goal line and I call for a goal kick. The forward helpfully explains that "if it's 2 against 1 it has to be corner kick!" Good thing I know that for the next recertification! :)
     
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  4. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that's the question I always miss on my recert....
     
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  5. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    AR for AYSO U10 game yesterday. Dad behind me that has been coaching the kids the whole game, but not loud enough to actually be heard by the kids (I think it was more to show his cohorts he was smart), questions the referees whistle to bring back an offside restart from the PA that was touched before it left the PA. I let him know what the call was, and he mumbles to his cohorts that that must be another one of those absurd AYSO rules. I kindly let him know it is a FIFA law actually (figured he would know FIFA, not IFAB), and he scoffs.

    Same guy later yells out "she can't pick that up" when the keeper picks up a ball that had been kicked by her teammate from a yard away. A kick that was meant to be a clear, but muddled backwards. As I'm back up near good ole dad, he says again, she can't pick that up!. I say it wasn't deliberately kicked to her, the law is meant to stop time wasting, and U10, we hardly ever call that. He says again, "but she kicked it didn't she?"

    Hadn't done U10 in awhile, that was a hoot.
     
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  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Ah, yes. AYSO 10U-- before the parents and coaches have been trained . . .
     
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  7. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I'm mostly shocked by the concept of an AR at U-10. All of my local clubs go solo at U-10.

    I guess that would be a great way to break in new CR's, though. Our assigner usually puts new CR's on U-10 games with no AR's. I've been trying to convince her that she'd be better off putting a new CR on a U-12 game with two strong AR's, then graduating those CR's to U-10 solos. You see some weird stuff at U-10, and it can be reassuring to have a couple of friendly faces on the lines to help you out.
     
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  8. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    I mostly agree.
    We find that U12 is a good place for new CRs with some experienced ARs. U12 parents are better than U10 parents for a new CR.
    Then...
    For U10, a more experienced CR (because of parents) with some brand new ARs.
    This is the best place for ARs to learn, with the back up of a more experienced CR.
    YMMV.
     
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  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Keep in mind that all AYSO refs are volunteers. Typically teams are required to get two volunteers to be trained and ref. So AYSO games (at least in Regions that aren't struggling to get those volunteers) pretty much always has ARs from 10U up.

    While ARs aren't really necessary for an experienced R doing at 10U game, they do provide a good training ground. And a newbie R is more comfortable knowing there are two ARs on his team than just getting out there alone. And it lets most newbies start out in the relatively easy role of a 10U AR, and hopefully decide its not such a scary job.

    (The down side is that most 10U games there are new refs, so its harder to get the coaches and parents well trained.)

    Given the time of year, the game that @Soccer Dad & Ref was referencing was most likely an all star game. (Could possible also be AYSO EXTRA, which is a selective program that plays at a higher level.) Most AYSO Regions try to get more experienced refs on these types of games (hence why Soccer Dad & ref was doing the game)-- and often the parents and coaches aren't used to Rs and ARs who are deeply experienced and don't get pushed around by coaches.
     
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  10. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    That is what we have tried to do in our local rec league (lower level)... minimum pressure setting for them to work on their mechanics, decision making, and remembering a few of the Laws.

    I know most of the coaches from years on the league board, so a quick pregame word with them, then I'll "ask" certain young/newbie Centers, "Want me at AR2 to take care of the silly parents?" I'm 50 and kinda big... they usually jump on the offer :thumbsup:. If they're my AR, the games are slow & simple so you can subtly guide their positioning if needed, give them time to remember & execute their signals, etc. Just wish more of them would return the following year...
     
  11. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    Unfortunately, you are correct. And I hate that. We have all seen the reports of referee shortages and I believe this is partly due to a) lack of work for newest refs and b) higher stress games for newer refs.

    Do we need 3 refs on U10 games. Nope. But put the kids to work anyway. This ends up being win-win for everyone (except maybe the folks paying the bills) and the newbie refs get more experience quicker at lower stress levels.

    For the good of soccer - push this concept with your local clubs!!!
     
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  12. SkiRacer

    SkiRacer New Member

    Everton
    United States
    Oct 19, 2018
    Our area uses three man at the top level U10 games and solo at the lower level U10 games (which are typically U9 and U8 games). Only more qualified refs do the solo U10s (2nd or 3rd year). First year refs get centers at the three man u10 games with a mentor as one of the ARs. I think the system works pretty good. I disagree about the U12 parents though. I think that can be some of the worst games. My son was center for a chippy U12 game and the one coach and parents of the same team were the worst. I was AR2 and I had to calm the parents down more than once. They were yelling about things on the field that didn't even happen.
     
  13. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Last night, HS VG and VB back to back in a dual. We get gifted with an "announcer" who wants to call each play like he's announcing the result of every football play. Ball out of play? "Throw in for XXX". He mostly got that right. Free kicks were something he clearly had no clue about.

    Goal kick? "That's a corner for XXX."

    Corner kick? "Penalty kick for XXX."

    Free kick off a foul? "That's a penalty kick."

    80% of all kicks we took he called a penalty kick. Except for, you guessed it, an actual penalty kick. We had one in each game. Once he called "goal kick" and the other "corner kick."

    Ah, the joys of HS ball out in the middle of nowhere Texas. Where pointy ball football is king.
     
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  14. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    Twist on the same theme... The boy's team announcer at my daughter's HS likes to do play-by-play almost as if he's doing a radio broadcast, but over the PA... just, wow. The players' on-field commentary on his commentary makes it hard not to laugh.

    But, our girls' announcer knows his limits... He gets TI's, GK, CK, PK, etc., and every FK except "offsideS" gets a simple "Infraction on [team]". Period. Obviously I can't officiate her games, but I stepped in for him on the PA...

    Our HS ref assoc VP had the whistle. As the crew met for halftime, I see him pointing up at the pressbox shaking his finger. I go down to give them Gatorade and have a chat, when he said, "I knew YOU were on the PA!!"

    "Oh? How so?"

    He said, "At first I thought, am I hearing offside? Then you said dangerous play when I called the high kick between teammates and it got me wondering... But when that call on White, just inside their 18, was announced as obstruction after my hands signal, I knew no freaking way that's not one of ours up there!!"

    Wifey said I was being a nerd for using those terms...
     
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  15. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You still use hand signals in HS soccer? Other than the standard IFAB signals, ewe haven't done that for about 10 years.
     
  16. wguynes

    wguynes Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Altoona, IA
    They will use the word "obstruction" too, I'd wager. Probably 10+ years old, although NFHS does publish its own ruleset.
     
  17. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even when we were supposed to use the signals for different infractions, I never did. One year, I was the referee for a girls state semi-final game. All the state tournament games were being assessed. On the video, you would hear the assessor say, "Good call, no signal." After about 4 of those, he finally gave in "It is obvious that you aren't using the signals today, so I will stop commenting on that."
     
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  18. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    Not anymore, officially.

    I just started doing HS this past fall and happen to have read what the old NFHS signals were... only reason I knew what he was calling.

    Actually, I'd wager it was one of those, "I'm not giving away a cheap PK for that... Hmm, yeah, looked like some obstruction just prior; that'll work..." kind of calls. YHTBT and I was - it fit that game at that time nicely.

    But, he's been a HS Ref for eons, so the hand signals are probably old habit. When the primarily HS guys help with USSF Rec or Club, they'll often use the HS clock signals purely out of habit.

    And I've forgotten to use "wind clock" on kickoff after a goal in HS more than once. Darn Americanized version of timekeeping...


    Yeah, I'm still working on remembering the different NFHS terms... obstruction, disqualified, game vs. impeding, sent-off, match, etc. I suppose it mostly comes into play on reports or with a coach that's being an A-1 on semantics. But, some non-USSF guys have given me a funny look during HS when using IFAB vocab.
     
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  19. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    When we eliminated signals for specific fouls, we kept the 'wind the clock' signal deliberately, as a recognition of the attention span of most high school clock operators. You're welcome.

    My recollection is that one or two states protested that they were going to keep the signals. Our response was something along the lines of 'knock yourself out.' I could never remember which one was for kicking and which one was for tripping. I think the one that was least popular was flapping your arms like a bird starting to take off for dangerous play.
     
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  20. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    Yes, absolutely needed.

    In case it came off wrong, my "Americanized" comment was to jokingly put some "blame" for my own ineptness on the NFHS vs. IFAB/USSF timekeeping differences that I was not used to performing.

    I missed some start/stops on my watch and start signals in a few HS games because it's not second nature - yet. That's on me, not the process.
     
  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    I've been doing HS for ten years and I still miss some of those.
     
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  22. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
    Actually, I think quite a bit of it is on "the process". It's stupid, always has been stupid and I don't mind standing up on soapbox and telling people that.
    OK...back into my cave....
     
  23. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    HSBV dual, I'm R2, Blue's up 3-2, 1 min left, White defender 2-hand shoves Blue outside the PA, no one else nearby.

    Tweeeeeet. Ok, stopped the clock, he's got to leave for YC, just don't forget to wind the clock! ... [pats self on back]

    Game ends, meet R1 in circle (he's mentored me some for HS).

    Me: "Aw $#@%. I was making sure a few players were cooled before restarting and forgot to go explain the card to coaches. Can they come back on us for that in HS?"

    R1: "LOL. Not for that one! Everyone saw what happened over there."
     
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  24. VariableFeedback

    Aug 3, 2009
    Pennsylvania still has the signals as a state adoption. Can't say that I've made them after my first couple of games years ago.

     
  25. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Touch your nipples for obstruction/impeding.

    Oh, wait, you said *least* popular.
     
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