The Subtleties of the 'Game' and those we will never know...

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by ko242, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    As much as we think we know about the subtleties of the game, most of us know very little. All we know, most of the time, is what is already presented to us.
    And there is a difference between
    1) people who know the game and...
    2) people who think they know the game.
    And then there is a third group who will be left out of the discussion, this includes people who are given clear evidence of what has happened and still can`t come to a reasonable conclusion. no one on this forum except for maybe 1 or 2 over several years and many youtubers.

    If I´m being 100% honest with myself, I fall into the 2nd category. And this is because my father regularly exposes my lack of understanding of the game on a deep and internal level. this involves more than just watching games or looking at statistics. this is an ability to be able to correctly predict things before they happen. I believe that a person who is able to correctly predict what will happen to a player or a team more often has a deeper understanding of the game. NOTE: this has nothing to do with statistics and analyzing statistics!!!!

    Example 1: after the first game Ajax played aginst Madrid, i thought it was a one off game and i thought. given that madrid is madrid going at the bernabau and ajax plays in the dutch league, madrid must surely beat ajax in the 2nd leg. BUT my father told me, there are sometimes a team outplays another and it comes down to circumstances AND THEN there are times when a team outplays another team because the fundamentals of how the play are correctly in place for the team they are playing against. And my father predicted that not only would Ajax would outplay Madrid at Madrid in the 2nd leg but Ajax also had a better chance of winning the game than Madrid. But i myself was stuck on the aura of madrid and la liga and the low level of the eredivisie without taking into the consideration why Ajax beat madrid and why it worked so well for a team like Madrid.
    OF COURSE, you cant be 100% correct. when napoli beat chelsea in the 1st leg of CL in 11/12, i don`t think anyone in their right mind would expect Chelsea to go on and win the whole thing.
    The point is, who is correct a higher percentage of the time to determine who has a better understanding of the game.

    Example 2: This includes players. such as, why did CR7 become so much better than Quaresma??? did you have to personally know them or could you see it in their games. Was it not apparent that despite CR7s lack of understanding at 18, you could see his fearlessness and approach in every game?? Could you see him make a decision in a game that he didnt make 3-4 months ago??? is his game growing subtley on a level that you can notice???? Why does rakitic fit barcelona so well but coutinho struggles to even stand out. how will vanicius fare at madrid in 2 or 5 years given his skillset and mentality??? will that number 10 midfielder on tottenham fit into a style like real madrid (modric at tottenham)??? how many people would have noticed the talent (or at least potential) of xavi, if guardiola never came into the picture??? i can even go into more specific examples but it would go on and on...


    This is not a specifically targeted topic, which is probably a horrible idea based on this forums history. But what i do hope is that no one discusses things that have already happened and why one is better than the other at THIS moment. BUT rather, using statistics, subtleties of the game, and mentality to determine what will happen in the future and why you guys come to such conclusions.

    Examples of current questions I have
    1) will Hazard really be the star we hope to see at madrid or has playing at a team like chelsea for so long hurt his game, (should Madrid reach that high level that they usually mantain of course).
    2) will liverpool maintain a high level of play for a few more years despite their lack of midfield superstars and a lack of top forward depth or can they maintain their level relative to Man City?
    3) will barcelona need to hold on to rakitic or will de jong fit into barcelona immediately???

    Remember, these are just examples and we can never be 100% perfect and sometimes things happen that we cant predict.
    I really just want to see how you guys come to such conclusions and what kind of evidence do you use to support your conclusions in order to come to your predicitons. AGAIN, this is not about analyzing statistics to see who is better today and having an opinion.
    I believe true understanding and an internalization of the game is the one who can make a higher percentagr of correct decisions because of the subtleties that one notices...

    Thanks again guys. Im really glad for this forum and everyones participation, and most importantly the interest in the game that everyone has.
     
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  2. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    My prediction is that de Jong will fit Barcelona better than Rakitic.
    Rakitic isn't allowed, maybe by himself, to constantly play his superb long passes/crosses. De Jong is more straightforward in his approach/mentality and will try to dominate according to his strengths, and not accept certain limitations. For example; Lucio was told not to dribble from the back, Benzema stopped and lost his cannonballs etc.
    De Jong shall succeed!
     
    ko242 repped this.
  3. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    A midfield with Arthur and De Jong certainly looks appealing.
     
    ko242 repped this.
  4. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    Honestly, with Arthur, I still believe he holds on to the ball for too long. Nothing wrong with holding the ball but his avg length of time for every possession has to be extraordinarily high by barca standards for a Barca top midfielder. Players like busquets, xavi, and iniesta spent 80% of the game with 1 or 2 touches. I feel like Arthur spends 75% with 3 or more touches. He is an amazing player though. And his direct passing is still not a threat to defenders. Or rather his penetration passes. Still miles from xavi and iniesta. And I only compare because many people have put such expectations. What do you think @annoyedbyneedoflogin ?
     
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  5. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    #5 ko242, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    With rakitic, I think thats a result of playing at Barca. In recent times at Barca, constant long balls has not been a theme and produces higher rates of lost possession. Losing the ball at Barcelona is a much bigger deal than other teams. I believe the same reason he doesnt shoot as much as he did on other teams.

    As far as de jong goes and his future at barcelona, no doubt he is a fantastic player but he must fit into the barca system. There are too many big players ahead of him. At Ajax he is the star and can do whatever he wants within reason. He is literally given that freedom. At barca, he will have to take it. Not that he can't but I havent watched de jong enough to make a determination if he is capable of doing that. For example, are there games where he is a bit more reserved for whatever reason or is he a player that just plays with an open spirit regardless of the game??? If he is the latter then I think he is more likely to impose his will at Barcelona. I haven't watched him too much so i cant judge how I think his level of play will fit at Barca. But I dont think he (de jong) has to come in with a boom. He just has to show promise and improvement over time. Thats the key. But coutinho looked like a really good fit for barca to me. A dream signing almost given his style but he looks like an average player at Barcelona.

    De jong certainly has the athleticism and technique to excel. But at Barca 2 things are important. Decision making at a high level and the ability to play well under immense criticism and pressure. Maybe in this case given de jongs lack of games as a young player it can be hard to make such a determination.

    I believe judging a player like Hazard going to Madrid and succeeding is much easier to judge given the length of his career and what we have seen
    OR
    Given recent transfer rumours, how do we think Pogba or Mbappe would do at Real Madrid???
     
    annoyedbyneedoflogin repped this.

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