PBP: -The Semis - Discussion - Hurricane, Too

stephen malik please open the stadium if safe for ticket holders to watch on big screen

 

Good stuff:

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/2018/09/13/nwsls-leadership-void-compounds-hurricane-damage/

 

I can't believe there was never a plan B set already in place for the playoff matches but then again, there's no leadership at all for some reason and who knows when we will ever get leadership.

 

So because there's no one with the title "Commissioner," there's a problem? I don't buy that as the problem. Amanda Duffy is the effective Commissioner. The title itself means nothing.

The question is, how much power are the owners willing to concede/should the owners concede to the Commissioner or effective Commissioner? Is the Commissioner/effective Commissioner up to exercising that power? That's what we should be posting about.

Did something wrong happen with the Courage/Red Stars game location decision-making process? I don't see something wrong happening. All I see is that the blogosphere wasn't happy because they didn't get the info they wanted when they wanted it, notwithstanding that there was a serious situation that couldn't provide answers when they wanted them. Get a grip. It's not all about you.

 

Eh, I find that very doubtful. The only way I can see NWSL turning the playoffs into an all-one-location weeklong event again is if they use "championship week" as a soft launch for whatever expansion team(s) come(s) along. Hard to deny the top two seeds their earned home semifinals.

Remember that the playoffs are just three games. Whatever attendance they get isn't gonna move the needle much in the grand scheme of things.

 

In all years and all divisions of pro soccer I've followed, (MLS, WPS, NASL, NWSL, USL since it became DII, and even the non-pro women's leagues) this is only the second time ever I've seen moving a playoff match due to weather seriously considered. Granted, that could be because there might have been some years I wasn't paying close enough attention, but the point still stands that the only playoff game before this one I've ever seen talked about moving, much less actually moved, was when a snowstorm prompted DCU and NYRB to swap the legs of a home-and-home playoff series. It's not something that comes up enough for most people to ever think about it, and the only time it has come up was with organizations that had enough control over their own operations that moving the game wasn't a big deal and had "home field" evened out over two legs. So chill.

 

I get that it was probably the most cost-effective, feasible solution, but one thing that's not been mentioned yet is that I don't see Portland fans being neutral about this game. @cpthomas correct me if I'm wrong.

And just to lighten up the thread:

The NWSL Shield Curse sure isn't going down without a fight.

— Neil Morris (@ByNeilMorris) September 13, 2018

 

Well I was joking. And the joke was that all playoff games would all be at Portland (for all time). I mean, the highest attended playoff game not involving the Thorns playing at home was still in Portland, so...

Well, other than last year, home playoff games haven't been much of an advantage. And even with both home teams winning last year, the cumulative home playoff record is 7-5. I guess if you throw out the 2 home team losses in the finals (so we're just talking about the semis) then the record is 7-3 which is more of a home field advantage. But then again, since the Shield winner has never won the playoffs, and the higher ranked team has never won the final match, why even bother with the home field advantage in the semis to begin with? It's clearly not set up to give the best team the best chance of winning the playoffs.

Except if they play them in Portland...

(Hopefully people remember all the times I've stated how I'm not a fan of playoffs, so clearly any suggestions I make regarding them should be taken with a grain of salt )

 

I really don't know, Thorns fans aren't monolithic so there are different preferences. You may be right that more fans will be for the Red Stars than the Courage, but if that's the case I'm not sure it will be because of who they think is better. I think most Thorns fans think the Thorns are the best team. And, I think they're more concerned about the Reign than either the Red Stars or Courage. But, I could be way off.

Personally, my view is that all four teams are capable of winning, they all present problems, and I don't have a strong feeling about which is the better team in the Courage/Red Stars game -- mostly because of Sam Kerr, otherwise it definitely would be the Courage. As I think about it, if the Thorns win their semi, which I think will be a very close game, I think I'd rather have them play the Courage, not because the Red Stars are better but because I'd like to see a reprise of last year's game and I'd also like to seem them play the team that won the Shield -- again. Of course, I guess I'm one of the few who thought last year's game was a really good game (regardless of who won it). I love battles like that.

My one negative about the the Courage is that I dislike Riley. I've been in a group that met with him and I really didn't like the way he talked about his players. He's too narcissistic for me, makes it too much about himself. Probably, his personality just rubs me the wrong way, he may be fine.

One stray thought. Those of us Thorns soccer fans who know soccer (which are a big bunch) know what the Courage achieved this year. It's maybe something that makes the possibility of the Thorns playing the Courage in the "championship" game attractive. We want to beat (or lose to, if the Soccer Gods so will it) the best.

 

don't like this solution.

i think it's a huge disadvantage to the courage, who essentially get punished (they have a travel penalty) for a tremendous season long performance.

i do get the circumstances....

 

Yeah it is a disadvantage for a team that is probably the world's best women's team right now. I pretty much believe Portland fans are going to root against NC the whole time if Portland gets through to the Championship because they don't want NC in the finals. Me? I don't have any horses in the race until LA gets a team here in 2020 so I'm rooting for the team that nobody is talking about, Seattle Reign...

 

This isn't about soccer, folks. This storm is potentially deadly and infrastructure destroying. People in the area are not going to be much interested in soccer with 15 inches of rain or more having fallen. Primary responders are going to be very busy and overworked managing the storm situation. They made a good call. One or the other of NC or Chicago were going to Portland anyway. May as well take both there and they don't need to travel later. This reduces the travel penalty for the final, also.

 

I woke up early this morning thinking about this, and the people I feel really bad for are the Courage fans. They deserve to have a home game. I try, but can't really imagine, how I would feel if something comparable happened in Portland (Mt. St. Helen'e erupts again?). It would be a huge disappointment for fans.

And, I worry about disaster "hype," for more than just the game. I don't know whether all the media and federal, state, and local government talking heads are able to give a really good assessment of the weather situation or whether they are overdoing it. But, I also expect that they quite naturally want to error on the caution side. I wonder if the government people had some input into this particular decision.

For the team, the statistics, such as they are, say they should be fine. Their home goal differential is +1.42 and away is +1.58. Chicago's home is +0.58 and away is +0.25. Of course, now the game will be neither home nor away, so that may be some kind of factor related to those numbers. I'm sure the players would much, much more rather be playing at home for their fans and their being disappointed might be a factor too.

 

The WoSo community, as I was reminded yesterday, is full of provincial nonsense about the South.

Granted, we don't know exactly whom to blame for the game not taking place in Richmond, Atlanta or some other place that would give N.C. some semblance of a home-field advantage. Maybe N.C. was being intransigent and refusing to move the game, but even so, everyone certainly could've agreed on Richmond by Thursday afternoon if there was any leadership at all out of Chicago (by which I mean the league office, not the Red Stars).

(Portland, neutral? Please.)

In short -- let's be real. No one's interested in putting the Red Stars on a beach with Jim Cantore. We were talking about going someplace to ride out a thunderstorm in a safe hotel and then play under conditions that would be a hell of a lot better than the apocalyptic scenes we've seen elsewhere for REGULAR SEASON games.

I'm so freaking disappointed with the WoSo community's inability to recognize facts, I don't know what to do. Maybe I'll just get a VPN and follow European soccer instead.

 

Raleigh is not Wilmington.

Richmond is not Wilmington.

Atlanta is not Wilmington.

Nashville is not Wilmington.

I've lived in Wilmington. It's going to suck there for a while, and I hope people living near ANY water (including rivers) have evacuated, and I feel terrible for the damage they'll face when they get home.

But Richmond and Atlanta currently have weather forecasts that are better than a typical July day.

And while I wouldn't have recommended waiting it out in Raleigh to see if they could play Sunday or Monday or even Tuesday, if they HAD been waiting it out, they would've done so in hotels that are sturdily built and not near any water.

If Amanda is the effective commissioner, then I say this with all due respect to someone who has done well in the sport -- she just lost the audition for the permanent job (if she wants it).

As I point out in the post below -- there were other options, and the difference between college football teams' response and the NWSL's response was stark.

They blew it. There's no other way to spin this. If Dames, Riley, Johnson et al were all acting like spoiled kids, then a strong league office should've sent them to the rooms and made a freaking decision to play in any one of the dozens of available options that were close enough that the Courage could have rented some damn buses to take fans to the game.

They blew it.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Bottom line -- it's been a bad year for the league all the way around. The parity is gone. The Breakers are gone. Sky Blue is horrific. And they've been without a commissioner for more than 18 months, and as we've just seen, that matters. They need someone who'll slam down a gavel and point the league in the right direction.

This is starting to look like WPS, with the "Oh, St. Louis was being funded by mysterious brothers from England?" and the "No, really, please, Dan, can you put up the dasher boards?" and the botched legal defense that left them unable to cope with a lawsuit that should've been booted from the Florida court system.

That's not good.

 

Dang, neither you nor @McSkillz took the bait of insinuating having all three 2019 playoff games in LA to soft-launch a 2020 NWSL-LA team! I need to step up my game. X-D

 

Oh, so now it's different?

Now that NC has to fly out we have safety concerns, when CRS were to fly in and Rory was talking safety concerns a day or two ago, flooding, etc, it was, "Stirring the Pot"

Brief Update:This decision puts great pressure on our staff/players/coaches etc to prepare for trip in midst of storm. No decision is better than bad one. Safety remains our priority for all involved. I’m baffled & disappointed for our Courage family. STAY SAFE. More info later. https://t.co/uHqJjryaBo

— Curt Johnson (@curtjohnson17) September 14, 2018

 

It's rather ridiculous gamesmanship on both sides.

The Red Stars could've flown to Atlanta or Richmond. The Courage could've taken a bus.

And the NWSL could've made a decision instead of ... whatever they were doing this week besides not confirming any expansion teams.

I hate to be snarky on the league, but what option are they giving us?

 

Agree, gamesmanship on both sides. Everyone is trying to get an edge.

My concern is the league and the women's game. Yes, I am a Red Stars fan, but the perception of the league and teams "playing nice" for the sake of the league is just as important to me. These Twitter spats and retweet spats I've been reading over the past couple of days does nothing for the good of the game and league. I want this league to survive for many years and I want my Red Stars to play in it just as long.

 

TBH, I was kinda wondering how they were going to get out of NC....I just wish the decision was made earlier so they could have been out of NC earlier in the week and just practice in Portland until Tuesday.

 

It's a legit question, but they could either take a bus to ATL or somewhere else today or wait it out and see which airports are open Sunday.

 

Unless people have a lot more knowledge than they've shown so far, about all the factors involved in the decision, I don't think their opinions are worth much. One issue was the weather, I have no idea what the internal discussions were about that or what the local authorities had to say about that in relation to using WakeMed. But what I'm really talking about are business factors related to an alternate site. What would it have cost for the game to be in Richmond or Atlanta, from a stadium point of view? (If I recall correctly, stadium rental costs can be very high.) How would that compare to any additional team travel costs to one of those sites (e.g., the Courage would have had to travel to Richmond or Atlanta), and to additional travel costs from moving the game to Portland? Who was going to have to pay for the net cost above what the cost would have been at WakeMed? It's easy to say, "Oh, the NWSL would have to pay for those added costs; or the Courage would have to pay for them; or the Courage and Chicago would have to pay for them." It's easy to say that because it's other peoples' money. This is a league that already operates on a shoe string, as demonstrated by the salary cap, by Boston's fold, and by what's been revealed about NJNY, among other things. What went on "in the room" when these issues were being discussed? Were the teams involved willing to take on these costs? Or, was the bottom line for those involved that the game needed to be moved, and Portland was the least expensive option.

Suppose, based on the then available weather forecasts, it looked like the game might not have been able to be played on Sunday. (Right now, Weather Underground predicts heavy rain/wind with 2.83" of rain today in Cary, rain/wind with 2.33" of rain tomorrow, thunderstorms/wind with 1.56" of rain on Sunday, scattered thunderstorms with 0.68" of rain on Monday, and am thunderstorms with 0.07 inches of rain on Tuesday.) The championship game is scheduled for a week from Saturday. Given the weather forecast, it certainly is possible the game would not be able to be played on Sunday. Monday looks like it might be a play date although even that's not certain. In terms of the winner getting to Portland for the championship game, what did those making the decision think was the last realistic day to play the game given that air travel from North Carolina to Portland is a full day's event? Were there potential barriers to a full team being able to get last minute plane reservations for a flight to Portland if the game couldn't be played on Sunday?

It seems to me that the question of what to do was much more complicated than posters are making out.

I don't know whether a right decision was made or not, because I don't know what all those kinds of considerations and facts were. And so far, I haven't seen anyone else who has demonstrated having enough information to make an informed evaluation either.

I will say, however, that it seems to me if the Courage can fly out of the area safely enough to get to Portland in time to be ready to play a game Tuesday night, then Chicago likely could have flown into the area safely enough to be ready to play at WakeMed on Sunday. It makes safe air travel look like a bogus issue raised by Chicago.

 

Chicago had a legitimate concern over safety getting into NC just as now Curt Johnson (President of NC FC) issue on safety getting out of NC is legitimate (post #93). If you are going to say one is bogus, you have to say the other is bogus as well. I don't think either one is.

And along the lines of your statements above, it's not just about getting a plane flight, there are a thousand other logistical things that happen when a team flies for an away game.

Just as NC will have problems flying out of NC Triangle to get to Portland in the next couple of days, Chicago would have had problems getting into Triangle area in the next couple of days. You have to be equal in both situations. You can't say poor NC Courage, they will have problems getting out of NC to get to Portland but yet say, yeah, Chicago could have gotten to NC, no problem, and been ready to play when it stops raining.

The best course all along, IMO, was what they finally did but should have been done days ago so that both teams can get in and out safely and without stress.

 

I agree that it's a complicated question. And the air travel thing was always rather silly. Perhaps we shouldn't put blind trust in institutions, but given the past couple of decades of commercial airlines successfully avoiding weather-related crashes, I think it's safe to say the Red Stars wouldn't have been asked to board an unsafe flight. (Conversely, neither would the Courage, which might want to get out of town NOW while there are still some flights out of RDU. Or take a bus to another airport like Richmond or Knoxville.)

But it shouldn't take several days to examine options in other cities. Sure, college football programs have bigger staffs, but still -- look how quickly they acted as soon as the forecast pointed toward the mid-Atlantic. Amanda Duffy surely has the relevant contact info for the Richmond Kickers and could probably track down someone at Silverbacks Park.

And my general frustration writ large is not the risk aversion but the fact aversion of the WoSo community. I never thought I'd have people Cascadia-splaining Mid-Atlantic and Southeast geography to me. Gee, thanks, everyone. I've only lived here for 48 years. And I've got people yelling at me on Twitter, "But they're EVACUATING! It's unsafe!" Yeah, they're evacuating the beaches and some towns right on the coast/river. There are plenty of people still in *Wilmington*, where the elevation of my old apartment is 30 feet above sea level (and it's about six miles from the ocean and six miles from the river), let alone Raleigh.

People seem to think modern cities 120 miles inland and 315 feet above sea level are going to end up like the scenario in that doomsday Weather Channel video. (Seriously, they can do all those special effects, and yet my app loads erratically? And I'm often outside convincing my soccer teams that they're not actually feeling rain because the Weather Channel says the chance of rain is 0%?)