The River End: assigned seating or General Admission

Discussion in 'The River End' started by vevo5, May 21, 2013.

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The River End: Assigned Seating or General Admission

  1. Assigned Seating

    28 vote(s)
    60.9%
  2. General Admission

    18 vote(s)
    39.1%
  1. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I just don't want to go in early to get a decent spot and then stand around doing nothing
     
  2. bigjinks

    bigjinks Member

    Jan 15, 2010
    Liverpool/Havertown
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I grew up standing on the kop back I n the 80s and early 90s and that's what we did. Stand around doing nothing until about a half hour before the game. In those days it was sth and pay on the gate, but you had to get there early. I couldn't afford a season ticket so I got there early and paid my fiver every week. Stood in the same spot every week. Except, and I'll use this as an example, - the arsenal game at the end of the 89 season for the title. Was in there 3 hours before kick off and it was rammed. It's a different culture here. GA is not all It's cracked up to be. We take more of a day out approach, with TG ing and such. And tbf with the way our tix are managed those who wanted to sing more got to move more central after the first season, when folks realized it wasn't for them, moved out. The same is still true.
     
  3. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Agreed completely. I got in start Of season 2 in 135. The next season I was able to be in 138 4th row.
     
  4. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #54 vevo5, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    Couldn't agree more.

    For those opposed to GA Supporters Section, go and ask supporters in Seattle, Portland and Kansas City if

    they want their GA Supporters Section revert to Assigned Seating (most don't)

    (if you don't believe me, go start a thread with a poll at the Timbers Army website/forum
    http://timbersarmy.org/forums/ and see what they say)

    and

    if the GA Supporters Section help improve the stadium atmosphere (it does improve the atmosphere quite a bit)

    If the front office of Seattle, Portland, Kansas City is in charged of the Union regarding the Supporters Section, which do you think they would do: stay the course with assigned seating or switch to GA?

    Let's use San Jose as an example. They look at Portland, Seattle, Kansas City with GA and they look at Philly and Vancouver with assigned seating to see if they should go GA or assigned seating.

    San Jose will have a 1,500 seats General Admission Supporters Section. That should tell you all you need to know.
     
  5. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I have six season tickets. We don't always arrive at the same time, yet we would like to stand together. There in lies my answer
     
  6. Sober Tom

    Sober Tom Member

    Sep 10, 2001
    Glassboro, South Jer
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I went to almost all of River Plate's games when I was studying in Argentina in 2008. Always sat in 'la popular', a huge terraced section behind the goal, and I had to get in there at least a half hour prior, but I was OK with it because the experience was worth the sacrifice. That being said, there aren't any seats or aisles in the KOP (or at least during the period you're talkin about) or la popular; if you need to go to the bathroom you gotta wait it out. Having seats and aisles means more space, which I assume means that if you need to squeeze someone in you can, or if you need to move somewhere else you can. Really my issue with assigned seating is that people think that seat is their property and that they're stuck to it. They will either refuse to move or won't even consider moving in the first place and just kill the vibe.
     
  7. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    i can say it isnt like that in my part of TRE, people kinda squeeze in but you are in the general area of your seat. My only beef is i dont want to have to go in way before kickoff and try to save spots for 4 other people
     
  8. Johnstaud

    Johnstaud New Member

    Apr 8, 2014
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I don't see how general admission would prevent you from standing together. The way I see it you have two options
    1) first guys there gets the spot you guys want( presumably towards the front and center) and the rest of you attempt to squeeze in with him (could be kinda rude depending on how crowded it is)
    2) the six of you find a less crowded area, presumably not as front and center, but this area is less crowded and you can comfortably stand together.

    It's not like the River End is huge, all the seats have a pretty great view.
     
  9. TonyClarkDOOP

    TonyClarkDOOP Member+

    Jun 18, 2010
    Oxford, United Kingdom
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would enjoy waiting in line for hours.... It would add to the anticipation and the hype. Bring a cooler/whatever. However I believe I am in the vast minority, and I will eat my shorts if the Union FO changed to GA.
     
  10. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Or I keep my seats in 138 row d and all these other clowns can kiss my ass
     
    jaykoz3, sentrido and slitz repped this.
  11. Sober Tom

    Sober Tom Member

    Sep 10, 2001
    Glassboro, South Jer
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Would you consider to 138 Row D as prime real estate? That's genuine curiosity right there btw; I'm not tryin to provoke you. In other words do you think people are gonna be itching to get in there early to get to your seat or the seats around it?
     
  12. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    It absolutely is. Right off the post, 4 rows up. but it's easy in and up from my spot in the parking lot, so I can wait until the line at the supporters gate dies down. Also, I'd be heated if I got in there and had to stand in the back left corner because my hot spot is taken by some dork. But, since the river end isn't even sold out, this conversation is moot. It's not like anyone is clamoring for tickets
     
    Handsome Pete repped this.
  13. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe the atmosphere (or lack thereof) is partly to blame for this lack of demand for tickets. Sure, the team record on the field isn't helping. But if the atmosphere at PPL Park is like Portland or Kansas City, even if the team isn't performing, I'm sure the demand for tickets would be higher.

    The atmosphere in Portland plays an important park in the stadium being sold out since day one and 11,000+ on the season ticket waiting list.

    .
    .

    If the Union front office has a time machine and can go back to change whether the River End is GA or Assigned Seating since day 1, do you think they would chose Assigned Seating, knowing what they know today?
     
  14. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    The difference is the cities that are cited as having the best atmospheres don't have four other pro sports teams to compete with. Seattle has the Seahawks and mariners, Portland has the blazers, kc has the royals and chiefs. Those teams automatically slid in as Third teams, when the union was fifth on the radar to the general public. I would also say it has alot to do with stadium location and proximity to downtown
     
    cwelch999 and TonyClarkDOOP repped this.
  15. slitz

    slitz Member+

    Feb 19, 2005
    Red City, 140
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seattle and Portland also have long histories and I know for a fact KC's atmosphere hasn't always been like it is now:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have you ever even been to PPL Park? Making TRE a general admission seated area would be a huge mistake and likely ruin the atmosphere in and around PPL Park on match days. Making TRE a GA section would likely ruin the tailgate scene for those of us who reside in TRE. Instead of Tailgating we'd have to get in line to get into PPL as it opens to claim our seat for the match. It would be chaos. TRE is one of the best supporters sections in MLS.

    And as @ericlfd said, the atmospheres in the Cascadia stadiums are what they are for many reasons, one of which is a downtown location that is quickly and easily accessible via foot and mass transit. PPL Park is in Chester, and is not quickly accessible by mass transit, and is not near any bars and restaurants for fans to congregate at before or after matches.

    Please take your GA agenda elsewhere.
     
    dangit77 repped this.
  17. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #67 vevo5, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    Union front office can accommodate both tailgating and a GA Supporters Section.

    [​IMG]



    the Union front office can make it GA by section. GA 137, GA 136, GA 138, GA 135, GA 139, GA 134, GA 140.

    So if you have GA 137, you can still tailgate and have access to Section 137. Not the best "place" in Section 137 but still a "place" nonetheless.




    or

    Section 137, 136, 138 will be GA.
    Section 134, 135, 139, 140 will be Assigned Seatings.

    If you have a GA Section 136-138 tickets, you can still tailgate and when you are done, you will have access to these 3 main sections. Not the best place in GA Section 136-138 but still a place nonetheless.



    or


    some other scheme that will be a compromise between tailgating and GA.

    Wristbands perhaps?

    All of the River is now General Admission with Section 138 designated for the first 350 Sons of Ben who show up for a wristbands 3 hours before kick-off. 1 wristband per 1 person who stood in line.

    After getting the wristband, these 350 people can tailgate all they want knowing they are guaranteed a place in Section 138. Near game time, they just show up with their wristbands and be allowed in Section 138.

    Timbers Army have wristband for big matches. Though their purpose isn't for tailgating.
    http://timbersarmy.org/new-ta-gate-procedure
     
  18. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just curious, how many people in the River End normally tailgate at every home game?

    300 out of 2000 River End capacity?
    400 out of 2000 River End capacity?
    500 out of 2000 River End capacity?

    If the number is around 400-600 out of 2000, they can be accommodated with the wristbands scheme I proposed early. The River End will have General Admission that will help improve the atmosphere.


    And out of the 2000 capacity River End, how many people attend nowaday on a normal home game?
     
  19. TonyClarkDOOP

    TonyClarkDOOP Member+

    Jun 18, 2010
    Oxford, United Kingdom
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel dumber and dumber reading these post about GA. Im all for GA. Just not here.... Who wants to drive 30 (Center City) to 120 minutes (Harrisburg, and I know some either further than me), just to wait 3+ hours before the doors even open. That is just plain dumb. The appeal to Seattle and Portland, they walk or take public transit. You almost have to drive to PPL. SEPTA Stations they bus people. If I were you, I would stop trying and wasting my time .
     
    local136RiverRat and jaykoz3 repped this.
  20. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #70 vevo5, Jun 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
    Would making half the River End as GA (136, 137, 138) and half of the River End as Assigned Seatings (134,135,139,140) work?

    Those that want to tailgate, those that travel from far away, those that want to show up just before kickoff etc..., they have the option of purchasing Assigned Seatings. Assigned Seating will guarantee them the EXACT seat no matter what time they show up to the game.



    [​IMG]
     
  21. celt1997

    celt1997 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Philly Burbs
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't, for the life of me, understand how this is still a topic.

    Why will TRE never be GA? Very simple. There are people who have had their seats for 5 seasons now. This team is not going to call those people up 1 day and tell them those seats aren't theirs anymore. They may still be in the same "section," but, now, they'll have to show up hours earlier if they want a chance to sit in their seats.

    The seats they've sat with their friends in for 5 years. The seats they've probably used to introduce other people to PPL Park and the Union in for 5 years. The seats they've shared up and down moments in for 5 years.

    The number of people they would probably lose as STH if they made this move probably far outweighs how many people GA would bring in.

    TRE is filled with supporters looking for a certain experience. They are showing up with assigned seating, but a lot of those may not show up with GA. I can't really say I've heard of people NOT going to a game because there is no GA.
     
  22. ericlfd

    ericlfd Member+

    Nov 28, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I would def lose a few people to GA. Too much of a pain in the ass
     
  23. dangit77

    dangit77 Member

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would sit elsewhere if my seats went GA. I have a hard enough time with people wanting to stand in the area of my seats while I'm standing the game now let alone if my section was GA.
     
  24. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #74 vevo5, Jun 5, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
    The front office can offer these people a discount and offer to move them to a different section.

    If GA helps improve the atmosphere, the club will be better off long-term. I feel that the Union is going backward regarding the stadium atmosphere. It's sad since Philadelphia has all the ingredients of a great stadium atmosphere except for one thing: a GA Supporters Section.

    Go and read the TFC Forum over at RedPatchBoys site and see how TFC supporters are not thrilled that their front office didn't create a GA Supporters from the beginning. It was a huge mistake and it is very hard to fix. Casual fans, family, supporters are all mixed in one section. Not an ingredient for great atmosphere.

    They are waiting for BMO Field expansion and hope that the front office fix it.




    It's simple math: A great stadium atmosphere will sell more tickets than a mediocre stadium atmosphere.
    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/06/02/In-Depth/Main.aspx

    Trail saw the impact of that stadium experience when studying season-ticket holders of the Seattle Sounders.

    Buyers in that first year most often bought because they felt an attachment to their city, and also because they wanted to support MLS. They typically were not avid fans of soccer in general. Those people — the aficionados who were watching matches from around the globe and reading about tactics and transfers — wanted no part of Sounders season tickets.

    But in the second season, Trail saw a significant shift among Sounders buyers.

    “Watching the Sounders the first year caused a bunch to buy the second year,” Trail said. “And these people were totally different in their behaviors. They followed the game internationally. But they didn’t see the product of the Sounders being of sufficient quality to follow the first year. After seeing it a little bit, and seeing the crowd, they became interested sufficiently to buy season tickets. They’re the ones who follow the EPL and are in the soccer bars. Now they follow the Sounders as well.”
     
  25. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the beauty of the GA Supporters Section is that it will separate "hardcore" supporters who are much more involved with the atmosphere and the "casual" supporters who are not.

    Sober Tom wrote this earlier in this thread:

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it's guaranteed, but I would say that it's likely. When this topic came up a couple of years ago I drew a parallel to what happens at hardcore or punk shows (and probably metal shows too). At all of these shows you have a GA policy. One thing about these kinds of shows is that the middle section is ALWAYS where the action is. People who are looking for that kind of experience, the "pit" experience, know it always kicks off right there in the middle front. People who don't want that experience know this as well (assuming they're familiar with the culture), and for the most part they don't go there. It's understood by all that there's a section of the floor that's different from the rest; it's all about crowd dynamics, not what isolated individuals want to do or don't want to do.

    In theory at least, the same kind of logic would apply to a GA River End. Instead of running into people and dancing like savages (hardcore shows) you have singing, flag-waving, moderate levels of debauchery, etc. Since the SoB's ledge is right there in the center, the closer you are to that center the more involved you'll probably be, or at least the more positive social pressure you'll feel to be involved (this brings up the issue of some of the more zealous SoBs berating others for not participating; the fact that you feel the need to tell someone what to do is just one more argument against assigned seating). I would venture a guess that this is the case in pretty much every soccer stadium that has GA; there's a center of activity and everything radiates out from there. Likewise, people who are attracted to that kind of experience will naturally gravitate towards it. Those fans who accidentally end up in the middle, for whatever reason-and they'll be in the minority more than likely-will at least have the option of moving somewhere else. With assigned seating they are not able to move, and in fact it wouldn't even occur to them to move. That seat is their property for 90 minutes, and their ticket, with the seat and row number, is the "deed" on which they stake their claim to that property, so to speak.


    Portland, Kansas City and Seattle have all benefited from this General Admission "effect."
     

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