The Red Baron: Josh Sargent at Werder Bremen

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    What's ironic. After making the pass Josh run around everybody, crossed sideline, happened to be where he supposedly shouldn't have been, got lost in the tussle and ended up all alone in the penalty box.
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Coach seems disappointed he's doing so well. Hopefully he's just trying to keep expectations low.
    LouisianaViking07/09 and bballshawn repped this.
  3. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This why I struggle to read YA anymore jeez
    superdave, gunnerfan7, wixson7 and 3 others repped this.
  4. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    Why do you assume he's talking about that specific play?
  5. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I don't know what he is talking about, but on this play being where Sargent wasn't supposed to be resulted in a goal.
  6. ckajMonet

    ckajMonet Member

    United States
    Jun 8, 2017
    Yeah, I'm sure he was crushed when he saw Sargent come on and tie the game for Werder. It's pretty much every coach's nightmare to have a talented 18 yr old that continues to improve on their roster
  7. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Josh should autograph his game worn jersey and put it under coach's Christmas tree signed, you're welcome.
  8. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    I'm confused. The coach hasn't said on this play he was in the wrong position, but you have.
  9. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Yes, I have. Do you think that the coach taught him to run around everyone away from the goal. That's absolutely unorthodox instinctive move, just a pure definition of "occupied spaces that he should not occupy". Works for natural forwards.
  10. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did the coach celebrate when Josh scored? .
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  11. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    "Despite all the euphoria, he has to get to know a lot more tactical processes in order to be able to play permanently."

    This is great news. After years of internet arguments about playing time, Kohfeldt has confirmed that the Yanks Abroad unicorn - the guaranteed starting XI spot - exists after all!
    deejay, Tom Collingsworth, Gorky and 2 others repped this.
  12. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Where does he rank among goalscorers at Bremen this season?
  13. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    I think what's key here is that the perception of Sargent as a prospect is going to earn him opportunities where he can be a forward with teams that are genuinely talented on the attacking side of the game. Always felt Jozy, like Wood at Hamburg, ended up on a team bereft of attacking talent in the midfield, didn't see the ball or genuine scoring opportunities with anything remotely like consistency, blew a couple of chances, lost confidence, and then fell into a vicious cycle of negativity. It's always been a pet theory of mine with forwards that they really need to go to teams that play to their strengths, regardless of level, rather than land themselves on teams that lack the ability to provide them an environment that will help them be successful. Any forward sent to Jozy's Sunderland era squads would have looked like dog ---- because the team was manure, and the midfield was even worse then dog mess. That kind of horror show, like Wood's last year in Hamburg as well, can lead to a player falling into a confidence trap which can lead to blown sitters and even less confidence.

    It's one thing if you play with a consistent Champions League caliber club, like Pulisic, where issues with confidence will be connected to playing time, it's another thing entirely when you are playing on a bottom feeder that produces 3 or 6 shots on goal every month total. With that kind of paucity of chances, if you miss the rare opportunity, which happens with everyone, you won't see another for a while and can see your confidence plummet, and confidence is key with goal scorers.

    I always felt it was confidence, negative feedback loops, and hammy injuries that were as much responsible for Jozy failing to live up to his 2005-2009 promise as it was anything about his talent in particular. Mentality was definitely an issue, but when you combine terrible moves in terms of league play with the hammy issues, you've already got problems.

    I think Sargent, if he can stay healthy, will pass Jozy's career accomplishments w/o much of a question, but I also think he's already set up with a much, much better path. He's drawn the interest of world powers for his signature, Jozy drew interest after the '07 U20 World Cup, and Villarreal was definitely better than than it is now, but he wasn't drawing interest from the biggest clubs in the world like Sargent has. As such, I do think Sargent's going to have more opportunities to succeed than Jozy did, and I think if he can stay healthy, he's definitely going to take advantage of them. Jozy is a could've been in the same vein as Clint Mathis for me, but with a much longer career. Both had flashy, crucial moments for the USMNT which offered much promise for the future, but in both cases neither delivered, in part due to injury and in part due to mentality and general misfortune. Kinda frustrating as I feel like both players could have been true greats if they'd had mentalities more like that of Brian McBride and Bobby Wood, but neither seem to have. Kinda crazy to think that even after this big long post, Jozy still won't even turn 30 until a few weeks before thanksgiving next year He still has time to change the storyline of his USMNT career, I just don't see it happening, especially after his hideous '17 Hexagonal campaign.
    DIMITAR BERBATOV! repped this.
  14. sakibomb523

    sakibomb523 Member+

    Oct 13, 2009
    Orange County
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

    Feb 1, 2005
    Time's Arrow
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno - watching the play again, Josh just kept running into space. I don't know why he was at that spot (pushed way left) to start the play, but he was able to take the ball down and link to his teammate and then he just kept running toward goal into wide open space - he took the left wing's space, but the left wing was stopped and feeding the ball into the middle. Had Josh stayed out of that occupied space, there would have just been a big empty hole of the left. Maybe Kohfeldt wants it that way (truth be told- by the time he's on camera after the goal, he doesn't look that happy), but I kinda doubt it. Bremen was on a mini-break and my limited understanding of soccer is that forwards are supposed to break forward as hard, fast and (generally) direct as possible towards the goal in that situation.
    superdave repped this.
  16. ebbro

    ebbro Member+

    Jun 10, 2005
    There was nothing unorthodox about the space he moved into or the way he moved into it.
  17. Three and Three

    Sep 13, 2015
    New England Revolution
    I don't want to be weird or a downer, but is Sargent cap-tied? I ask because, if I remember correctly, he's eligible for the Republic of Ireland.
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, he's not cap-tied because the last US cap-tying opportunity was World Cup Qualifying in 2017. He is provisionally cap-tied though.

    But it's doubtful he has an easy path to an Irish passport, because he waited until age 18 to sign in Europe. He would not have waited those 2 years if he didn't have to.
  19. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    A coach saying an 18 year-old first-year player was sometimes in the wrong positions isn't harsh criticism ... it's coaching. He'd have to be a lunatic to say Josh needs to work on finishing, or work rate - trying to get him to focus on improving tactical positioning is just an intelligent coach trying to help a player focus on the right area of potential improvement.
  20. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Colón de Santa Fe
    BA/YA is no place for measures reasoning. Please follow the “sky-is-falling” mantra moving forward.
  21. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    yeah I agree with a lot of this.

    I also think there are similar factors at play that can have the same level of impact.

    for one, there are some forwards that still can put up goals/assists with a paucity of chances - jermaine defoe still managed to produce on that Sunderland squad after jozy left. Still, I don't think that can be used as irrefutable evidence of Jozy's lack of quality or ability at the EPL level as most seem to assume from that comparison and his lack of success at Sunderland/Hull.

    I think there are certain forwards who can produce on bottom-dwelling teams and some who are less suited to that mostly defensive, chance-scarce style. Those forwards are definitely more likely to move up the club ladder but I dont think that being able to score with a relegation team automatically means you will be able to produce more on a champions league-level team than a forward who couldnt produce on a relegation candidate team or that you are objectively better than a forward who cannot score much on a struggler.

    the system and fit is key.

    Look at Zardes with LAG under Schmid and under Berhalter with crew - same player, different results. Look at siebatcheu under a new manager - all of a sudden he is scoring and assisting again and just made team of the week, whereas for the first half of the season he looked like he might not stick in the first division.

    I know it will never happen b/c of the way transfers work but I have no doubt that if you put Jozy on a Bayern or Dortmund that create a bunch of chances, he would score a lot.
    DIMITAR BERBATOV! repped this.
  22. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    He almost ran behind the bench. :):D:D
  23. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    Sweet 8 paragraph post about Jozy Altidore.
  24. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    Awesome huge non-josh related post.
  25. striker

    striker Member

    Aug 4, 1999
    if he keeps it up, he would be the best finisher in world history.

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