The Random (Post-Modern???) Thoughts on Education Thread

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by uclacarlos, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    They're here. They've been here. YOU simply do not have basic reading comprehension skills, as I/we have shown time and again in this thread.

    Why... here's another example:

    We refuted your assertion that teachers have unlimited sick days; you sorta backed off and then criticized the banking of sick days; and now you're back to the ridiculous notion of unlimited sick days:

    Reading comprehension skills would be nice.

    Just bc you BANK sick days doesn't make them unlimited. When you run out, you run out and then don't get paid for any days you miss.

    I know. It happened to me. My first year teaching I got sick so often that I used up my sick days by late March, at which time I got strep throat. So I didn't get paid for 4 days while being out. Then a dear family friend died, so on the day of the funeral, I didn't get paid as well.

    Ooooh. Talk radio logic.

    That's funny.

    I have a friend that missed over 2 months last summer/fall due to health issues. He works for a publicly-traded company, and hadn't taken a sick day in 12 years.

    He's still working there.

    If you wish, I'll give you the company name and you can alert the shareholders so they can vote him out. :rolleyes:

    You certainly talk like you are.

    Link to a source that delineates per capita spending on education and analyzes assessment results.

    Back your statements up.
     
  2. the shelts

    the shelts Member+

    Jun 30, 2005
    Providence RI
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC

    Thats close Russ but I'm saying that the average USA 16 year old is doing worse in English scores than the average student in these countries are scoring in ENGLISH. So we are not comparing students in Holland ability to speak Dutch but a student from the Netherlands ability to speak English, it is our mother tongue and their 2nd language.

    They are beating us using their second (sometimes third) language vs our first language.

    I think the appropriate comparison may be the French education system (Francophone and immigrants) comprehension in French vs the US education system (Anglophone and immigrants) comprehension in English.

    But your point is valid, US ESL teaching is different than teaching the mother tongue students.




    Sadly another week has come and gone.........and the US education system has fallen further behind the rest of the world. We are now entering the month of May, which means thousands of school departments across this great nation will be spending millions and millions taxpayer dollars simply to spend to the maximum of their budget. The rationale of this "buy anything, just buy it before June 1" mentality is if they spend under the budget they will be perceived as not needing the budget the next year and it will be cut.

    This is not a Obama stimulus program, nor do the students need another coat-rack or footstool in the teacher cafeteria but our tax dollars are gonna be spent like crazy in the next 30 days.

    All left over money is to be spent on anything. The only thing to be banked are sick days.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    shelts, it is pretty difficult to get askance of people in the Education and Academia forum, but you're managing it by claiming facts not in evidence and stating opinion as fact. You've been asked for sources to some of the more extreme claims and instead of responding, make even more extreme claims. It is put up or shut up time; trolling is defined within the context of each individual forum, and you're pushing it here.
     
  4. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Unless you ask us to do your homework for you, then we get mad pretty easily. :D
     
    2 people repped this.
  5. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What happens when you get a letter of reprimand in your file? Do prospective employers ever actually look at your file? Even if they do, does it look that bad? Does it inhibit your chances of getting hired and if so, how badly?
     
  6. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It depends if your current employer wants to blackball you or not.

    Also depends on what the reprimand is for,I imagine.

    Why do you ask?
     
  7. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I ask because I've been threatened with "disciplinary action" by my principal or AP 3 or 4 times since I've been teaching. I get a letter: "Please meet me in my office on such and such date and time with your union rep to discuss possible disciplinary action," etc. Each time it has resulted in not very much of anything (usually a letter of reprimand but not a letter to my file). I believe that the only formal sanctions they really have at their disposal are a letter in my file, or giving me a "U" rating at the end of the year.

    I have a suspicion that I'm due for another threatening letter, and rather than defending myself this time, I'm tempted to say "just put the damn letter in my file already." I know I shouldn't, but I can't help but wonder -- what difference would it really make anyway?
     
  8. Dr. Foosball™

    Dr. Foosball™ New Member

    Dec 23, 2006
    Hot Springs, AR
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why don't you just quit doing things to make them mad? Or move to a different district.
     
  9. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    You naughty little minx...;)


    You have to show up for your bitching out (and pretend to care),or they really can ratchet up the progressive discipline.

    Do you feel targeted?Is this some thing that you can take up with the union?
     
  10. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right. I know I shouldn't give them that much ammunition. Plus, it's worth it to some extent because it forces my AP to sit across from me and look me in the eye and pretend that she actually cares.

    I'm not being targeted in this particular case. The admins just have their focus on all kinds of non-instructional bureaucratic BS, and I don't. This is their main/only tool to get me to comply. They're well within their rights.
     
  11. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well then,just smile and nod,say thank you,cur(pronounced,sir)and be on your way.:)
     
  12. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Finals week can be brutally cruel for a prof: "Hey, this is what your life will be like in a week or 2. Go ahead... splurge. Indulge. Those papers piling up... who cares? Right? Right?"

    Now I've got 5 days to correct 130 exams and essays PLUS calculate all the grades. Shit.
     
  13. Dr. Foosball™

    Dr. Foosball™ New Member

    Dec 23, 2006
    Hot Springs, AR
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just give everyone a B. :D

    I had a professor who admittedly lost a term paper of mine a few years ago and tried to give me a B for it.
     
  14. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Student evals just came in. Got me some stories to tell.

    1. If you're going to trash a professor, make sure your spelling is on target. Don't use words like "conversate".

    2. I always, always, always get high marks for "available to meet with students". So when 98% of students give 5's and 4's for that and there's ONE student that gives me a 1, it makes it really easy to show that the student is just being a reactionary jerk.

    3. If you trash a professor one semester, DON'T TAKE ANY OTHER CLASS FROM THEM (unless there's no option) and for crying out loud, don't ask for a letter of rec!

    4. I am pleased to find out that after 13 years of teaching, I have finally been caught: I fake my accent. I kid you not. True comment from an eval.

    5. A first year English prof friend of mine had an in-class, graded writing activity on a novel on a Tuesday, followed by a peer eval on Thursday. A student "outed" him on a student eval and was "furious" that "valuable class time" was spent just so that he could look good in front of his colleague.

    And to top it all off, the spineless department chair put that comment in my friend's year-end review!!

    B/c ... heaven forbid... we as educators have pre and post-reading activities in our efforts to teach our students better.

    To give you an idea of how spineless this chair is, the English Dept. at my school isn't even in the top 10 most powerful departments on campus. The Admins just walk all over them.

    I've got more stories coming later... Fortunately, I got lauded by 2 classes and 80% of my 3rd class. But damn it pisses me off that a couple of little spoiled brats get on their high horse and talk smack.

    Student evals shouldn't read like a World Rivalries thread.
     
  15. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    1) never fails. Dumb-asses always out themselves.

    2-3) I've always found that so-called "quantitative" evaluations are unhelpful. One section gives me a 4.2 and the other gives me a 4.6, that doesn't tell me anything. But narrative evaluations can be helpful: "Dr. Wankler was much more effective on days he wasn't hungover or actually drunk" is useful information. Also, narrative evaluations give the dumbasses more opportunities to out themselves.

    4) You'd think after 13 years you'd learn to talk Amurrican.

    5) It's never a good idea to use only one evaluation as the official determining evaluation. You need a pattern, and any administrator should know that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Dr. Foosball™

    Dr. Foosball™ New Member

    Dec 23, 2006
    Hot Springs, AR
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is interesting to see the other side of the professor evaluations. At my former university, they were all online so most of the lazy students didn't bother to complete them. Most of the students who I knew would actually give higher marks than they thought they should have just out of respect for their professors.

    I only wrote bad things about one professor in four years (Medieval Civ. professor straight out of college who was very smart but couldnt teach to save her life).
     
  17. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    So I'm out to dinner w/ my girlfriend and she gets forwarded an email exchange from a first year philosophy prof. Guy sends a student a glowing email saying how she should consider majoring in philosophy if she wants to go into law b/c philosophy majors have the highest acceptance rate, that she's got an innate talent for it, that she obviously did a wonderful job in the pre-req class, that she should consider taking X course b/c it would work really well w/ her academic and personal interests, etc.

    The semester's over. My friend obviously sought to get to know his students. Gave her a huge pat on the back. On his own time.

    What does he get? An email w/in the hour saying that she was appalled to get an A-, that it's her first at the university, that it's ruined her gpa, that she would never, ever consider majoring in philosophy especially now that it has screwed up her gpa, that after having read his email she is beside herself on why he didn't give her a straight A.

    If you're an undergrad and you're reading this, THAT is the type of prof that you want to get on your side, as he/she will go to bat for you and write glowing letters of rec for whatever you want.

    And to react like this student did is just straight up rude. "Que poca madre!" we would say in Spanish. Her parents should be ashamed.
     
  18. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The other possibility is that they used the wrong end of the scale as "High."

    One year I decided I could net a perfect 4 (we go 0-4 here so the overall score mimics a GPA, which is, uh, nice?) on only one of the evaluative criteria, Instructor Kept Me Well Informed of My Grade. Everything else, I figured, was too subjective, and I wanted to see if I could get that magical 4.0 on something. So, every Friday for 15 weeks, I provided each student with an analysis of how they had performed on each assignment to that point, and included various scenarios on what they needed to do the rest of the term on every remaining point generating activity to receive any particular grade in the class (we don't have +/- grades, which made it easier). This took a great deal of time, but it was all for the students (where's the strikethough key when you need it - it was all for my experiment!). And when I received my evals that term, about a quarter of the people gave me a 3/4, and one even a 2/4.

    It was liberating. If I cannot go to extremes and rate the highest score from students, then I won't again be offended by outliers and other such things. That was nine years ago.
     
  19. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    A good strategy for professors in new jobs is to go to Ratemyprofessors.com after a few weeks and post a report or two. Negative reports. Scathingly negative, with bad spelling and immature complaints about how hard the course is.

    Very effective method for keeping dumbasses from enrolling in subsequent semesters.
     
  20. Dr. Foosball™

    Dr. Foosball™ New Member

    Dec 23, 2006
    Hot Springs, AR
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol. That is great! Some of my favorite professors had posts like that on their ratemyprofessor.com page. It is amazing that some of the kids in those classes managed to get out of junior high.
     
  21. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I had a student during my second year in grad school who went to the chair to bitch about how she wasn't learning anything in my class. Of course, she failed to mention that she had been absent for 45% of the term up to that point. She wrote me an email lambasting me for the "pathetic review" for the mid-term along w/ just about everything under the sun.

    Just to see if she would hang herself, I replied and gave her tips on how to approach the situation from a dept. chair's perspective and which of her complaints would essentially negate any legit complaint she might have.

    She ignored all the advice b/c it obviously came from an idiot who had nooooo idea what he was talking about. I also told her that she should be prepared to discuss her excessive absences and that the chair has been informed of the entirety of her case.

    Dept. chair listened to her case and said, "Wait. So Prof. uclacarlos told you how to prepare for this meeting, he told you that presenting X as evidence was not a wise route, and you ignored that advice. And you've missed half of the classes up to this point, despite the fact that in the syllabus it states that excessive absences will get you behind in the course, let alone bring down your grade. You've got some nerve. I'm dropping you from the course."

    But by then she had already poisoned about 4 other students, who canned me in the evals. One of those students, after seeing how well prepared she was in the next class, had the audacity to come and ask for a letter of rec. Her tail was btw her legs out of shame, so I wrote it.
     
  22. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Nah. Here it's "Strongly Agree (SA/5)" down to "Strongly Disagree (SD/1)".

    Unbelievable.

    I'm tempted to put in my syllabi next year "I am a firm believer in Math Across the Curriculum." I make my calculation so freaking easy: 30% exams, 30% essays, mt 10%, final 20%, participation/blackboard/etc. 10% or something super easy like the above. So you're missing exam #3, essay #2 and the final. How hard is it to figure out what you're getting with 55% of the grade in? It's a simple algebraic equation.

    "Wull... wull... I don't know what I'm getting for participation." Do you have interesting things to say in class? Do you actually do the reading? Do you ask for extensions b/c your high school buddy is in town and you're going to partyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! ? Be honest on what you would give yourself for participation, and not b/c your sleeping with yourself.
     
  23. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    This week has robbed me of any last vestiges of hope in public education. My school has a first year teacher (23 years old and right out of college). She's not perfect, but no first year teacher is. She puts in insane hours and actively seeks feedback and help with her lesson planning. She went with the super-strict classroom management approach to avoid having the kids walk all over the young teacher. She spent Thursday in the workroom wracked with tears and was out sick today.

    The situation? It's a four-stepper.

    Step one- She was teaching a unit that every teacher in the department was teaching (a contemporary lit circles unit that was constructed by some of the top curriculum writers in the county). Her honors 9 class had their unit presentations due a couple of weeks ago. Two of her students, realizing that they had a field trip on that day, spoke with the teacher, and she arranged to have them present a day early. One young man, also scheduled for the field trip, said nothing. He didn't even tell the other kids in his group that he wouldn't be there. The teacher (I'll call her "Sue") received an e-mail the morning of the presentation from the mom. It was a 5 paragraph rant about how her son WAS going on the field trip and how Sue WAS NOT allowed to penalize his grade in any way. This e-mail was cc'd to two administrators. It was the first contact.

    Step two- Since the admins were involved from the get go, they handled it. They informed the mom that the boy didn't perform his due diligence in informing his teacher. Mom didn't like that answer, so she called the board of education. The board called the principal, and the administration folded like a cheap lawn chair. The tone changed from one of support, to one where phrases such as "you teach English, not responsibility" and "I'm in the business of avoiding problems, not solving them" were trotted out. Sue, being non-tenured, sought my advice, and I suggested that she offer the boy a second chance via an individual assignment (there's one built into the curriculum for that unit, and it's a real ball breaker). The parent agreed, the student did the alternate assignment, and it looked like it was over. It wasn't. It just led to...

    Step three- The boy plagiarized the alternate assignment. He copied whole chunks of it from the internet. Sue was terrified of the parent's reaction to that news, so she took it to the principal, who sent it to the dept. chair, who sent it back to Sue saying, "yup, definite plagiarism." The mother, unhappy that the second chance assignment wasn't graded within one day of it being handed in, sent Sue a threatening e-mail, telling her that the assignment WILL be graded and it WILL be on the internet grade-reporting website by that afternoon. She also accused her of "borderline insubordination" due to the delay (5 days). Sue e-mailed the parent about the plagiarism, which brings us to...

    Step four- The boy and his father (mom is apparently much tougher via a keyboard) show up at the school within an hour of being informed of the plagiarism. Thursday (the day they showed up) was the date for Maryland's state testing for English. State testing was going on, and they show up with no appointment. Rather than telling them where to stick it, the principal convenes an impromptu meeting with two administrators, the father, the kid, and Sue (who was pulled from her test proctoring). The boy denied plagiarizing, even with his paper and the internet printouts sitting in front of him on the table. The father kept repeating that his son didn't plagiarize (and again, whole paragraphs were copied and pasted word for word). The boy and his father said it was coincidence. The boy insulted Sue during the meeting, telling her that she wasn't even qualified to grade his work. Rather than support her, the administration asked the father what would make him happy. The father stated that he did not want plagiarism on his son's record, because his son wanted to get into the NHS in two years. The principal thought for a moment, and then told the boy that he had to revise his assignment to remove anything that looked like plagiarism. At that point, he was going to be allowed to hand in the revised assignment for FULL CREDIT. The principal assured the father that no record of the plagiarism would be recorded, and then he told Sue that she was not allowed to write a plagiarism referral. The original (ie: the proof) was handed over to the father. The boy, who had been sobbing through most of the meeting, was commended by the assistant principal for "showing how much he cares about his grade" and the principal assured the boy that the department chair would grade his revised assignment. Sue sobbed most of the rest of the day Thursday, and she wasn't in today. I covered her first block class (the class with the boy in question) and the little goober smirked the second he walked in the room and saw that there was a coverage teacher.

    He was irresponsible. He plagiarized (blatantly) his second chance. Because mommy and daddy complained high enough, it was the teacher who was ripped a new asshole. Sorry for the lengthy rant, but I've been disgusted by the whole situation all day long.
     
  24. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Holy. F***ing. Shit.

    If you haven't resigned yet to go to grad school and you're about to do so, I would resign and cite this incident. I would cc the parents and the kid and pretty much rip them a new one for being horrible parents and encouraging cheating.

    Despicable. I've got to vomit now.

    Customer Satisfaction at its best!!!

    Can the union do something? Can the teachers collectively revolt? Lead a revolt. Get the students in on it. The bastard cheated and it's not fair to the other students. Get other parents involved. Put this on record and threaten the school's accreditation.
     
  25. Iceblink

    Iceblink Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. This may not be the expected reaction, but I'm a little jealous.

    1. Parents who care -- even to the point of screaming and yelling, with no justification, about a single assignment. Annoying parents are one thing... but I don't hear from parents until their children have failed an entire semester and want their children to receive ALL of the makeup work the day before grades are due. My principal would make me accept it all.

    2. Students have expectations placed upon them when they go on field trips? Wow. At my school, if a kid is signed out for a field trip, that's it. He/she was on a field trip. Students are regularly pulled out of classes for ridiculous activities that other teachers want them to do. I can't say no.

    3. You have some type of plagiarism policy. For my school, plagiarism is the norm. Nothing happens to students who plagiarize entire papers. I've gotten research papers that consisted of printouts of web sites, stapled together. We can't do anything due to the risk of being reprimanded for a high failure rate. Our area instructional officer said to the principal that any teacher with a failure rate of over 20% should be fired from teaching -- not just from the school, but from the board.. with a "do not hire" put in the file.

    I feel for "Sue," but if she were at my school, it would be guaranteed that she'd have no job next year no matter how good she is. They're cutting everything for their precious charter schools.

    4. You have a department that works together on things? I have two other teachers I can rely on in the whole department. Others refuse to go to meetings. They'd rather take long (or second) lunches.

    P.S. What's the contemporary lit circles unit? I'm interested.

    I need to move to a new school. My growth as a teacher is stunted from having been where I am.
     

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