The Problem Child

Discussion in 'Coach' started by pm4chi, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. pm4chi

    pm4chi Member

    May 16, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, cleary the suicides is the only problem. C'mon, read the rest.

    No, its a team at the second most competitive division in our state.
     
  2. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I suspect suicides indicate the root of the problem. If you were a high school coach, I would have suggested that running regular suicides during the competive season for the whole team rather than pre-season creates more risk of injury than any benefit in increased stamina. I would also have suggested that he would see more benefit from in-season speed and agility training than stamina training due to the substitution rules of his competition. But then you aren't coaching a high school team.
     
  3. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    Does this kid give 100% effort on game day and really like playing in the competitive games on weekend? If so, use that as punishment to get better practice time out of him and threaten that during practices and then make sure to follow through. For positive reinforcement, let him know that he is a valuable member of the team and his teammates and you really want him to be able to play in the games and help his team win.

    He also said he may just play LAX next season. To me, that means he isn't enjoying soccer enough. You may need to do some self reflection on your practices to see if you need to make it a more enjoyable experience and not so intense and dreadful to compete in the " 2nd most competitive U9 league in the state". Maybe he is the only player bold enough to rebel but the others are too scared to let you know. I don't know the real story but just some thoughts.
     
  4. pm4chi

    pm4chi Member

    May 16, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only got 100% effort from him at one game this year. Most of the time its half jog-loaf. And that positive reinforcement before and throughout the game helped get that out of him. But in the next games is was same old 50% effort, regardless of reinforcement.

    I truly don't think these pratices are intense and dreadful. As I said above, they almost always invovled lots of 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 small sided stuff with certain points of emphasis. The others do seem to enjoy practices.
     
  5. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The kid doesn't enjoy soccer that much. He may tell you he does, but at 9yo he's just doing it because his buddies are doing it, or it just happens to be what his parents signed him up for. Again he's 9 so he can't or won't articulate it, but he's just not that into it. I agree with Rob, except for trying to "make it more enjoyable". Assuming it's enjoyable for the rest of the kids, there probably isn't a thing you can do for this one. Get through the rest of the season, and then let him go find something else he's more passionate about. C'est la vie.
     
  6. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing that annoys me is when a kid is late and he's strolling lackadaiscally from the parking lot to the training area or taking his sweet time putting his gear on (as though he couldn't do most of it in the car?). I get on the players for that. They may not be able to control if they're late, even if they have valid reasons for being late, but they can control whether they hustle up once they do get there.
     
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  7. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    I see you've met my son.
     
  8. strikerbrian

    strikerbrian Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Queensbury, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I agree with you on that.

    On Time means ready to start, not present but still needing to gear up. The best way to solve this is to hit them where it hurts, playing time.
     
  9. pm4chi

    pm4chi Member

    May 16, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, PC has dropped out. Dad says his grades are terrible and he's not letting him sign up. Definitely a case of addition by subtraction.
     
  10. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    One thing I've learned as a coach/administrator (and even at my day job) is sometimes it's beneficial to just wait things out and let the dust settle on future issues/problems usually works better than being proactive and trying to fix things as soon as problems pop up. More often than not if I run around trying to fix things as soon as a problem is encountered it ends up wasting alot of time and causing more heartburn and problems than just standing pat and letting nature take its course.
     
  11. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My team problem child is my youngest son. I stood on the parent sideline and watched him waste his entire first candy season, he did not learn a single thing, kids are supposed to play 1/2 the game minimum, he averaged about 1/8 a game of play the coach didn't put him in right away and he wouldn't go in when finally asked ... it was ridiculous. Gave him a year to mature, and let him play passers u-8 this season, to make sure he played and his asthma was managed I became the coach.

    Several practices he's refused to do the drills the way the other players do them. Or refused to participate at all. he doesn't like working with the other players on passing drills. sometimes I let him work with an assistant, he doesn't want to do them with me either. Yes, he was like this when I wasn't the coach... it was worse.

    My wife finally came to practice yesterday, she's been refusing because she "needs a break" from him at home. But the plan was, and I told him, if he doesn't try his best to participate he's going to time-out in the van with his mom until the end of practice, if he makes it through practice, I'll give him a quarter. Finally, she came, and my plan worked, he earned a quarter yesterday.
     
  12. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As much as it pains me, is soccer the right sport for him? (or any team sport?). There's nothing wrong with sports like martial arts, boxing, tennis, biathlon. I'm not trying to be an ass, just throwing out an alternative idea since he doesn't seem wired for group play at this time.
     
  13. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soccer is his choice of sport, actually. I have signed his brother up for summer soccer, but not him. I'm signing him up for karate after the season (maybe I'm an ass too, lol ;) ). I signed him up for fall soccer, but if the karate (and time) doesn't help him mature, I might not put up with it in the fall season. He can keep doing karate if it works for him. Art classes might be in his future.
     
  14. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If he's 7 or 8, then consider doing different things in practices if the current method isn't working for you and him. The good thing is that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and although you are catering to him it's probably not going to be detrimental to the rest of the players.

    Is there an activity that he likes to do in soccer? At the young ages they enjoy "story" themed activities. Also, general movement activities are also good for them: obstacle courses, relay races, "tag" type games.

    What types of things are you doing with them?

    IMO, there should be very little to no "drills" for that age group. Just games that "happen" to teach the soccer skills and movement ability we are looking for.
     
  15. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just it. most of the practice consists of games, sharks/minnows, knock-out, tag the coach, simon says, red-green-yellow-turbo, and so on, the other 9 kids are having a blast.
    There are only a few drills that involve passing and/or shooting, but they are basically relay races. I've looked at and/or read about many games and I think I've been doing the best ones. Some passing "games" I've tried and they sucked so I stopped. "keep away" games, for example, were too complicated for them.
    I change it up, he basically can check out at any moment. if he doesn't feel it, he doesn't feel it. He refuses to participate in 1 v 1 even against weak players, for example. He hates anything to do with passing. He's 6, reads at a 7-8 year old level, but emotionally he's 4... if that makes any since. If it were the practices, then I'd have more than 1 problem child.
    I do a lot of things to shake things up and keep it different, I probably have the most interesting practices of any team in the league.
     
  16. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's weird. sometimes he's just spoiled. My wife hates coming to practices, but it worked last time, he did take a ball to the head and took some time out with her, but I totally understand that. he was fine up until then, and he recovered and joined the fun later. I'm not spanking him over soccer, he doesn't have to play at all, but he wants to, he's so ambiguous.
     
  17. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Doesn't sound weird to me. Sounds like you have dumbed down (i.e., reduced the challenge of) your practices over time. A typical kid would be oblivious to that and be perfectly happy playing sharks and minnows instead of keep away. A precocious kid is not going the miss the fact that you dumbed down the practices. A 6 year old precocious kid is going to take it personal. You need to consider his school situation and how he interacts and who he interacts with at school.

    I don't expect you to discuss something like that here. It is not necessary anyway. If the school has success with him, you can model your coaching methods after their teaching methods. If you don't know what the school is doing, I bet the teachers will be happy to discuss it with you.

    Of course I wasn't there, so I am just guessing.
     
  18. Coach E.

    Coach E. New Member

    May 4, 2013
    Louisiana
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a thread I can really relate to. I have had some really bad PCs as a rec coach. I have 6 players returning to play on my U14 rec team. Two of them are PCs and I suspect a 3rd PC may sign up (she's played for me before). Let me describe my 3 PC kids:

    1. I like this kid - she's sweet, shy, and a good kid. However, she has no motivation to play. I guess her parent is encouraging it, though she says she likes it. She rarely smiles and has limited interaction with other kids. Attendance at practice is hit or miss. On the field she stands around a lot. I've typically played her on defense and she has shown moments of great defensive play. However, once the ball is past her she returns to being passive and watches the game. She refuses to play on the side of the field where parent sits and even asks her mom to stay in the car. Mom sort of watches from the back of the crowd - sad! The kid's older sister is a high school soccer player and does well. Again, this kid has shown moments of great play, even most recently when I tried her at middle field. I don't know what to do with her.

    2. This kid wants to stand by the goal, receive the ball, and kick it in to be the star. She doesn't want to learn anything; put out any effort; or play any position but forward. This is coupled with no skill. I've tried other positions and she just stands there - was a disaster on defense. I let her parent assist as a coach thinking he might be able to help the situation, but it only got worse. The parent even seems to think she is one of the superior players (bad situation for me).

    3. This is a possible returning player who is much like player 2. When she last played for me she would walk up and down the field with her arms crossed and bottom lip stuck out. Again, her parent thought she was the best player on the team and was overheard complaining about how the rest of the team doesn't support her superior play. Her mother cursed me out twice for not allowing her to play enough - - which was far more than she deserved and at least over 25% of the game - probably closer to 50% as that is what is required by the league. I just broke the time up by subbing her in and out a bunch.

    Any thoughts?
     
  19. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    1. Surely everyone can see what the problem is here. All you can do is coach soccer.
    2 & 3. You see a lot of parents and kids who have great expectations based on their child's "talent." The most reliable predicator of who is going to be an elite senior athletic is a player's commitment to improve. There is no reason to try to change a kid and his parent's view of life. The kid's personality was formed years ago. The parent's are not looking for a parenting skills coach when they signed their kid up for soccer.

    I think the saddest situation is where the kid actually has a lot of talent, but due to his parents and his own views, the talent is wasted and the kid is a has-been by U16 or in your examples by U14.
     
  20. magoli

    magoli New Member

    May 24, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    My guess is #1 is being forced to play, and doesn't find it any fun. There's probably not a lot you can do but try to praise the times she does well, break down what worked, and try to build off of it.

    As far as #2 and #3, my instinct is to try to encourage the rest of the team to show leadership -- have them be the ones who push them to expand their game and try harder.

    Getting players to take over the leadership role is something I've struggled with, but I've found that when peers teach their teammates and push them to do better, it works wonders.
     
  21. Rebaño_Sagrado

    Rebaño_Sagrado Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Home
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I always tell my boys to put the cleats on once they on a the grass or field they will be playing/training on.

    I really don't want them to develop this habit of wearing their cleats from and to the car since the vehicle will be parked in concrete or asphalt and once they are older the frequency at which they should be buying shoes will slow down. And the boots get way more expensive. Walking on these surfaces ruins them at a faster rate.

    Of course we show up very early to everything. So mileage may vary and it depends on preference.
     
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  22. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I don't expect them to put their cleats on in the car. But they can put their socks and shin guards on in the car, particularly if they are running late. Either way, if you're late, hustle it up.
     
  23. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    What are some things you guys use to help with sportsmanship. I have a group of boys that tends to be negative toward their teammates. They spend a lot of time together at school so that maybe part of the problem
     
  24. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #49 rca2, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
    You didn't give the age, which is important, but generally--
    1. Set the example.
    2. Establish your standards at the start of the season with players and parents.
    3. Have a discipline plan and use it.

    Older children are taught how to communicate with set phrases on the field as part of tactics. There usually is not enough time or wind to waste trading insults.

    It is important to distinguish between friendly bantering and joking and vicious comments (or even well intended comments that discourage which can do as much harm). I don't consider this a sportsmanship issue. It is broader than that. It is a basic matter of respect for others.

    You cannot expect to eliminate the bantering, but you can make a situational (soccer) issue out of it by explaining that the laws of the game and team rules require everyone (players, coaches, spectators) to be respectful of others before, during, and after matches--not just officials and opposing players--but everyone including team mates. So to develop good habits, tell them practices will be conducted under the same rule. (Practice like you want to play.)
     
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  25. Coach_Hayles

    Coach_Hayles Member

    Dec 23, 2013
    Redmond, WA
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    With regards to players being made to play by their parents, I've had a lot of trouble with that. In my spring gu10 rec team there were 3 or 4 who clearly had no interest in playing soccer and were just there for a chat. Their parents really liked being soccer moms, which seems to be the only reason they were ever signed up.

    At the start of the season if was killing me a bit having to play these girls who really didn't care and sub out girls who did, regardless of ability level.

    Half way through the season I did find a way to get their head in the game a little more. Before kick-off when talking to them I got them to stand up straight, hands on hips, feet apart, looking up at me. We called it our wonder woman pose. That seemed to have a noticeable effect on the effort everyone put in.

    One of the girls in particular was scared stiff when playing because her parents were very vocal. To me it was clear they were trying to be supportive but it really stressed the kid out, making her afraid of making mistakes. I made sure that in my team talks there message was very clear, "mistakes are ok. Not putting in the effort isn't ok." It took a while but eventually that seemed to sink in. Combined with giving her a very defined role I managed to get some ok performances out of her. She still doesn't have a competitive bone in her body but we made it work. I also know she'll be back in the spring so hopefully it'll improve a bit.
     
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