I assume all coaches have had them, but this is my first real experience with one. I had always been pretty careful about making sure I good kids on my team, but this fall we took on 4 kids from another team in order to have enough numbers as we jumped up from 6v6 at u8 to 8v8 at u9. With the merger came the Problem Child. PC is a big kid, a very good athlete, and very used to being able to simply outmuscle other kids for the ball at all previous levels. PC could become a great player, but he was really ineffective this year as his bull-ish ways don't work anymore against the level of kids and teams we were playing against. PC is also the laziest (there has never been a drill that PC doesn't try to cheat in one way or another, or a line during sprints that he's not failed to touch), most backtalking, most inattentive ("PC, what did I just say?" "Uhhhhhhhhh"), most distracting (to his teammates), most negative kid I've ever come across. PC shows up for 1 of 2 practices a week because of a conflict that PC's parents didn't tell us about until practices had already started. PC half-asses it through every skill session. PC's idea of juggling is trying to kick the ball at his friends' heads when they aren't looking. Nothing I tried last season worked. Not sprints. Not positive reinforcement. Not hounding him. Not ignoring him. I had heard a rumor that he was dropping soccer to focus on lax, which might fit better with his penchant for random acts of violence, but despite a few emails to all the parents since the season's end asking that anyone dropping out for the spring to let us know, nothing. So I'm relatively resigned to dealing with this kid for one more season (our club will be re-alligning kids by ability at u10, and I'm likely to be done as volunteer parent coach at that point). I will be sending the parents an email telling them that we expect all kids to be able to commit to 2 practices with only limited occassionaly exceptions, but I don't know that this will do much (and by the way, I do like the kid's dad....I've never met the mom). I don't want to go so far as to kick him off the team, but I've definitely thought about it. The best new thing that I can think of is to just start sitting him down during practices for 5 minutes or so every time we have one of these incidents. This will likely mean he practices for about 10 minutes in 1:15. The absolute worst part about him is the effect he has on his teammates, and this almost makes me want to keep letting him miss a practice a week because it makes our practice without him run so much better. Any ideas for me? How have you handled your worst problems?
Have you addressed your issues with the parents? You will not get anywhere without first addressing your concerns with them and problem solving together.
That stinks. I haven't had any violent, disruptive kids yet. I've had a few that don't pay attention at all, but that usually changes once I call them out. (But, I coach girls - so I'm sure it's very different). I have a friend that coaches U7 boys. If a boy shows up late or not ready for practice, he makes that kid play with a Pink soccer ball for the practice. One of my girls last year was really messing around one day. I have made her run laps before, but it didn't really help. The next time, I told her she had to go over to her Mom and tell her why she was sent over there. She was terrified. I didn't make her do it, but she was well behaved the rest of the season.
Just take away his soccer ball and have him sit out if he misbehaves. Sometimes, the more negative attention you give a child like this, the more he will act up. You might get more of an effect by just simply telling him that if he can't follow the rules, he is not allowed to do anything with the team. As far as I see it, he has three choices: follow the rules and participate, not follow the rules and sit out, not choose to sit out and go home. Just google supernanny and timeout. It's really all you need to know.
Definitely agree. They might know something you don't. When I was teaching I had a kid that was a RPIMA. He was so frustrating. The most aggravating part was you could threaten to choke the living life out of him and he was totally unfazed. So, I talked to his mom and she told me every time he acted up just threaten to call his father. Man, it worked like a charm. Just reaching for the phone would make him turn into an angel.
You need to be careful with this, because this could backfire in the long-term. In this particular instance that Jose brings up, the dad is probably a pretty stern and strong disciplinarian. The reason the kid acts up for coach is because no one could ever possibly be as scary as dad, so he doesn't fear consequences. Now, threatening to call dad works for the short-term, but it won't help the kid learn to behave in the long-term and respect different standards of discipline and consequence. Sooner or later dad won't be able to scare this kid with a butt-whooping anymore, and he'll be a holy terror to society - not just his soccer coach. You need to attempt to be the authority figure in this case - rather than lean too hard on dad.
Well, you could say the same thing about any type of "punishment." Used too much and its effectiveness eventually goes down. One of my kids could sit for hours in timeout and come out just as pissed as when I put her there. Some kids love timeouts because they get to not participate in an activity they don't like and do a little daydreaming (shoot - I wouldn't mine being sent to timeout a few times a day.) My point wasn't that calling dad is an effective strategy. What I'm saying is the parents usually know of what strikes a chord with the child. Sometmes parents will just want a report and will take care of him afterwards. Was the kid good today? No, ok parents take away tv viewing or some other privilge. If he was good, or great, in practice maybe they reward the kid.
Ahhhhh, I would love to discuss this at great length. Just went through a lovely course of events due to a troublemaker on one of my teams. Finally kicked him off the team for good a few weeks ago. Of course, had to go through a whole hearing about not behaving appropriately, but I had a an assistant coach, the opposing coach and the game referee note that I acted appropriately. I am a volunteer soccer coach, not a public school special education teacher. If you are not going to discuss your child's issues with us, don't be shocked when they aren't welcome to play any longer.
Agreed. And I think this needs to be done face to face, not via email or phone. And I think it should be done with the kid present. So everyone knows what everyone else is saying.
I would also check to see if your club has a code of conduct. If what the kid is doing is violating that code of conduct and may be subject expulsion, I would certainly mention this fact at that meeting.
In my wife's line of work, mental health therapist, she encounters kids who have what is called Oppositional Defiant Disorder. It is what it sounds like, defiance for the sake of defiance. One method she teaches parents of O.D.D. kids is to give options or alternatives, instead of direct commands. "PC, stop doing talking when I'm talking." —Commands like that only serve to trigger oppositional and defiant behavior. The work around is to offer alternatives: "PC, you can choose to listen or please go take a lap around the field so I can talk to your teammates." Tone of voice matters too. You raising your voice means he's "gotten" to you. Not all the time but there could be a lot of underlying issues at home. Maybe this behavior is the only way he knows how to relate to authority figures or adults.
I totally disagree with humiliation as a technique. Maybe it's not his fault he is late. Anyway for me I have a mtg. at the beginning of the season. This sets the tone. I get an agreement from the parents in the form of a signature on our philosophy regarding training and match days. I get an agreement from the kids they all put their names to a sheet as well. It is called accountability. The warnings are verbal and then a time out and then a longer timeout.After that it is a conversation with parents as to behaviour. To try and halt the behaviour I try to see it from the childs point of view. Is he being challenged?Is he being disruptive because my practice is boring or not engaging enough? I will ask him also why he will not participate along with the others. Sometimes I get a kid who is struggling being part of a new group and is tryi ng to show he is not scared when in actuality he is frightened. But the negative attention is still attention so I value the positive behavior more than negative and I make sure that before any negative behavior occurs from any player that I am doing the right thing and applauding and congratulating and giving awards(captaincy, first to demonstrate etc.) to players who are attentive eager and willing to work hard. PS One last thing.Kids love to grow up and show off. So I always congratulate ("well done Paul for going and collecting the cones"). Players who show leadership qualities. And then at the end praise for working hard as a group. I also invest in the little soccer stars that can be ironed on to their kit. Give three out every game for being eg Best Leader, Most skillful, Best effort. Hope this helps.
Thanks all. I did tell Dad this fall that I was going to "ride" PC because he had potential to be really good. Dad said "yeah, no problem, he needs it." So there is some acknowledgement from Dad. But then when dad is there at the sprints at the end of practice and Dad is echoing me telling PC to touch every line, PC could still care less. (By the way, the problem nature of PC is readily apparent to all. Our competitive director came to watch our last game this fall to evaluate some of our players...when he called me the next day, he immediately noted "you have some nice players and one major distraction." It's clear that though PC might have the athleticism, the competitive director will never put him on the A team next year solely because of attitude/behavior (assuming he stuck with the sport). I'm trying to find some things that will work before having to deal with a parent meeting, but I'm coming to realization that is likely to be required. In thinking about this more, regardless of whatever armchair behvarioural/psychological assessment I can do, I do think that much of it comes back to the fact that PC has never put one second of time into working at his skills because he's always been bigger, faster and stronger. He views any time at practice that isn't scrimmaging as boring and a waste of his time, and he then looks to other ways to entertain himself, which is goofing off and trying to get his teammates to do it with him. Probably the best stick/carrot I could use would be that if doesn't participate appropriately in the drills/skills portion of the practice, he sits for the entire scrimmage portion at the end. One practice of sitting through the scrimmage might just get through a bit.
FWIW.I want to highlight some things that might be an issue. Sprints at the end of practice. End of practice should at any age be a cool down period and a way of reviewing the session. And to create a little levity. The work is done. They are U9 kids. Sounds like you have college players. Maybe the kid was playing more soccer at his other team. Maybe he is bored running around and wants to play what he signed up for which is soccer. You say he never has put one second of time working at his skills because he is always bigger faster stronger. So he sees scrimmage as every other kids does. What they came to do. "Coach are we going to have a scrimmage now" Like I said take a look at yourself and your methods as well as the kid. And I'm not having a go, We have the kids for an hour and half at a time. Maybe there is a lot more going on you don't know about. But take a look at your down times between activities. Are you prepared? Are you talking too much. Are your activities age appropriate? If they are to difficult it can be hard to be engaged if I can't understand the game. Are the activities game like or more drill like? What is your percentage of scrimmage to activities. How much time are the kids "working" without a ball. Remember this is their PLAY time. They are 8 years of age.
There in ies the problem. If the kid is more scared of losing the Nintendo 3DS than behaving and participating in soccer, then he shouldn't be at soccer. I don't care what level you're coaching at. if the kid doesn't respond to the soccer being taken away, you take the kid away from soccer permanently. That's probably what bugs me the most about people. They see organized sport as a right - not a privilege - for their children. Go play in the backyard with your kid.
Yes, and yes - especially the point about your tone of voice. If you get rattled, the kid instinctively can tell they are winning and sooner or later you will a) let them do what they want b) give up and leave or c) lose your composure and look like an idiot (or do something rash and inappropriate). All kids are capable of pushing the boundaries in one way or another - even your own children. Give clear instructions, simple choices, and maintain your cool. ...and, like I said above, if the kid doesn't fear losing soccer, then they need to go somewhere else.
I understand you're not having a go, but I'll add detail. We're talking one set of "suicides," maybe 2 minutes, and this happens at about 1/2 of our practices. And usually we try to have the coaches run them to and make it race. (Half the time we end our practice with an activity the kids love....what we call the Five Minute Challenge. Two lines of kids about 35 yards out and about 5 yards wider than each post. I'm in goal. Both lines can go at the same time and shoot on me, but they must shoot before a cone about 10 yards out, and then next kid in line can't go until the kid before him has shot. Then they retrieve their own ball and run back to the other line. Then get 5 points for a goal. I get 3 points if they don't get it on target and 2 points for a save. Loser does 5 pushups, unless I lose and I do 20. It's good shooting and conditioning and they don't even know it. (But, of course, PC either leaves early every time or shoots past the cone, and the its "NO I DIDN'T" when I disallow his goal!)). We have a paid "trainer" that runs the practice for our team and another team combined, so we usually do what he has designed and me and the other teams parent coach assist the trainer. The trainer did start talking too much, and we told him "you can't have them sitting and listending to anythign for more than 2 minutes...you have to simplify" and he did, to his credit. Sometimes I run the practices, and I always have a plan and have very little downtime. Everything I try to run is drills/skills where every kid has a ball or any line standing is minimized as much as possible. And lots of 2 v 2, 3 v 3 games with particular points of emphasis we might have for a particular day. How much time working without a ball? Very very little. How much time scrimmaging each practice? Probably 1/2 of it is spent in scrimmage or small sided games. And another aside, 5 of these kids on my team starting playing with us on a neighborhood "team" we had when they were about 3. This was kids from the neighborhood where we'd just go to the park on Sunday afternoons and play things like Red Light Green Light, Sharks and Minnows, etc. It was games with soccer balls to start, and never got very serious. This grew from about 8 kids to about 50 (as siblings and friends and schoolmates joined in) when we finally stopped doing it last year...I told my wife we were going to have to get insurance! But the point is, yes, I am very well aware of how to get them engaged, keep a ball at their feet, and make it fun.
Snip. Fair enough. I was just giving suggestions. Sounds like there is a lot more going on. Unfortunately we are the brunt of it sometimes
My wife hit me with this one last year with one of her 1st graders in her class. I thought she was shitting me at first.
Sorry but this is a terrible idea. I'm not a big fan of humiliation as a so-called "motivation" technique. But it's even more idiotic in this situation. Maybe high school or U19 players get themselves to practice but U7 players are dependent on others for transportation and thus shouldn't be blamed for being late (unless there's some specific circumstance otherwise).
Off topic: How do you deal with chronic lateness then? I agree is is it ultimtaely the parents' repsonsibility, but our policy this year was if you are late for warmup, you automatically miss the first shift in the game. The kids started making damn sure their parents got them their on time. Yes, it does often seem to be the parents that we end up coaching.
I think this is almost as important as coaching the players. They fill their kid's heads with nonsense that's counterproductive.
Amen. I think parent education is important for any coach/program trying to do things the right way. I've been trying to put together a parent education component for our club because they can so easily undermine what you're trying to do. When I'm trying to coach possession and short passing and a mom screeches "Nice boot" every time someone kicks it, under no pressure, 40 yards up the field to the opposition. Or they yell at their kids when they push past half field as defenders....
I think this is fair. What I do is this. If I tell the kids the practice before a game, "Everyone be here x time." I make it understood from the first game what this means. First, "be here" means "be fully dressed and ready to start warmups." Second, I pick my starting lineup solely based on who's there at the stated time. No exceptions. Like anything else, when rules are consistently applied, regardless of for whom or what situation, problems tend to be much less frequent. Actual consequences seem to be followed by things magically being taken care of to avoid said consequences.
You consider an 8-year old who doesn't want to do suicides a problem child? Sorry but I don't see a problem here. Is this a rec team?