The Phantom Goal

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dark knight, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #51 Excape Goat, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    Yes. It did not say how he manipulated the game....the article only said that he "gave a penalty for a nonexistent handball against the Senegal defender Kalidou Koulibaly during the game in Polokwane, South Africa. Replays showed the ball struck Koulibaly’s knee and dropped to the ground"..... that was manipulation according to the article. If there is another article that talked about other things, I have no idea.

    It never said the ref received money or any other criminal activitie to throw the game. It was only a bad call.

    You can say the linesman at the Panama game manipulated the result of the game by calling a non -existent goal. He did manipulate the game. Of course, Panama still has to score the second goal.
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never was able to find out more of the story, but FIFA doesn't ban a referee for life over one bad decision. Martin Hansson who was the referee during the Henry handball game still got selected to the World Cup the following year because one mistake doesn't define a career. (Unless you're Graham Poll...)
     
  3. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yes, it was weird. The game was also in Africa. I think some sort of corruption is going on. I meant someone paid to have a rematch. I mentioned in the original post.... the call was not that bad. Henry's handball came to mind. It happens all the time. I have seen worst calls. So I do not get why it gets a replay.

    Again, I am not calling a replay for the Costa Rica-Panama match. I am just pointing out that another rematch will be taking place for a bad call.
     
  4. umop_apisdn

    umop_apisdn Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Midwest
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #54 umop_apisdn, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    Anyone watch the full game? That was some disgraceful behavior by Panama. Here's a timeline:

    87:13 Panama goal to take 2-1 lead.
    90:11 Costa Rica finally kicks off after celebration, somehow only 3 minutes of added time.
    90:32 Brief spell of CRC possession, out of bounds off Panama; Panamanian substitute kicks the ball away from the Costa Rican player going for the ball to throw it in (receives yellow card).
    91:26 CRC doesn't receive a ball for the throw-in until Panama's coach gives him one, nearly a full minute later.
    91:48 Ball goes out for a Panama goal kick after a few seconds of CRC possession in the final third.
    93:43 The goal kick is taken after nearly 2 minutes of time wasting.
    93:51 Final whistle blows.

    Getting the ubiquitous "we didn't deserve to go anyway" out of the way, which is true, this kind of crap shouldn't be tolerated. After Panama's goal at 87:13, there was around 30 seconds of actual soccer played. I wanted to see Panama make their first WC, but after watching this I'm hoping they leave Russia this summer with nothing more than a 0 point embarrassment.
     
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  5. portugamerifinn

    portugamerifinn Member+

    Feb 22, 2005
    Bay Area / London
    How anyone could fail to see the obvious foul on Costa Rica on the play in question is beyond me. It is clear as day from the field-level camera just to the right of the goal, a shot which is in slo-mo in the middle of all the videos on YouTube. The defender had a handful of jersey, which he pulled as Perez turned and never let go of, then he kicked his leg across Perez, making some contact with Perez's left leg, before ultimately planting it and very obviously tripping Perez, foot to foot. Never was any ball contact made by the defender.

    A month ago people around here are blaming the Costa Rica loss on a missed penalty where Altidore flails like a fish as soon as he's touched on the back, now you're like, "I see nothing," presumably while "watching" the replay with both eyes closed and hands over your face.

    A penalty doesn't equal a goal, but this was an obvious penalty. Pause this video at :38 and tell me it's not a penalty: This what a penalty looks like.
     
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  6. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #56 KCbus, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    It’s not a penalty.

    (It IS; I’m just doing as instructed. It’s probably a red card as well.)
     
  7. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Except that in the official's judgment, it was not a penalty, and then not a handball. So, the only call left to him was a corner kick. The ball did cross the end line, but it was a foot outside the goal post. What if it had been a yard wide of the goal post? Or two yards wide? If he had still awarded a goal under those circumstances, then I presume most people would think that the match was fixed.
     
  8. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Actually what that video shows me is that PEREZ is HOLDING the defenders jersey as well to secure his position for an advantage. Just look for yourself. They both are infracting. no penalty.
     
  9. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    At the end of day,

    Panama won against the rules. USSF has a major case here. Ball has to cross the line. that simple. There is numerous imagery data (video) that conclusively supports that panama was granted a goal without actually scoring a goal. The evidence is there, USSF has a super strong case.
     
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  10. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Excape Goat and Marius Tresor repped this.
  11. napolisoccer

    napolisoccer Member

    NYCFC - Napoli
    Feb 20, 2005
    Napoli
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Can we organize a great petition on line to ask to the FIFA the replay of the Panama-Costa Rica? I know that the USA game has been absolutely shameful, but the Panama goal ( NO GOAL ) has been even worse..........
    The Usa have played an important role in the Infantino's election as President of the FIFA and Infantino don't wish these great injustices (phantom goal of t he Panama). In fact he is 100% in favour of the VAR.
     
  12. jagum

    jagum Member

    CF Montreal
    Venezuela
    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Exactly ! the Honduran federation can save a lot of money ( around 450.000 $ ) cots of travelling to Australia, if they appeal Honduras could go direct to Russia ! . On the other side I don ' t see any intention of the USSF to appeal the ghost goal of Panama !
     
  13. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope Honduras gets creamed by the Aussies.
     
  14. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    I do, there is way too much on the line. There is a legal way for USSF to counter this erroneous conduct by the refs, and that is an appeal.
     
    jagum repped this.
  15. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yep. This is a no-brainer. US Soccer will probably get at least what Ireland got, their share of the World Cup proceeds. What would that be now, about $10 million?
     
  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they play in Russia the same way the played in qualifying, I don't think they'll finish any of their games with 11 men on the field.
     
  17. portugamerifinn

    portugamerifinn Member+

    Feb 22, 2005
    Bay Area / London
    Ah yes, the old "They're both grabbing jersey, so the fact one of them also chopped the other down with an obvious, desperate kick and trip doesn't count" argument. You're grasping at straws. Ultimately, it doesn't matter, but go watch the PK calls from Premier League, Serie A and Bundesliga over the weekend and let me know if any were nearly as blatant as the play in question. If this isn't a PK, what is?
     
  18. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    #69 skim172, Oct 16, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
    So, there's a difference between bad calls and misconduct.

    In the case of the South Africa-Congo game, FIFA ruled that the official had deliberately made a bad call in order to manipulate the result. The key point is not that the official had made a bad judgment, but that the official had done so with intent to alter the result.

    In the case of the 2005 Uzbekistan-Bahrain game, the official ruled that due to encroachment on a penalty, the penalty was nulled and he awarded a free kick to the opposing side. In that case, the issue was not that the official had made a bad call, but that he'd made a technical error, following procedure not in accordance with the rules of the game.

    Bottom line: There are no replays awarded just for bad calls or bad judgment by an official.

    The official in question may see individual consequences after the fact - relegation, less chance at promotion, a black mark on his record, etc. - but the results will stand regardless. In that sense, bad calls are understood as happening within the scope of the game. Obviously, they're not something which you want to have happen - but if they do, the results will still stand.

    So the only way the Panama-Costa Rica result might be replayed is if you can find evidence that the official had made the bad call intentionally to help Panama win. It's not a technical error to get a call wrong - it is within the game's rules and procedure for the referee to make a judgment call. He got the judgment wrong - but that's within the procedures of the game.

    Around the world, right now, there are at least a dozen teams (if not two dozen) who will be staying home because they got screwed over by bad calls in a qualifier. Just this past week, Ghana requested to have their qualifier against Uganda replayed, in which two goals were disallowed due to questionable offsides calls. FIFA flatly rejected the request.
     
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  19. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    First time I really watched it. Definitely not a goal. Definitely a penalty kick. Possibly a red card for DOGSO.
     
  20. DaniChandler

    DaniChandler Member

    Jun 9, 2013
    Panama Canal
    Club:
    Cruzeiro Belo Horizonte
    Nat'l Team:
    Panama
    It would be our first shot in a WC, we are attending to learn! Give us a break ;))
     

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