thats fair. To be honest, I'm not sure what I expect in terms of reaction with it. Like you said, the same situation in college football at the U or Y or at the Jazz would be front page news for weeks on end. Maybe that's what is confusing about this. I mean, think about it, say Whittingham goes off on an official and uses a slur. That shit would be front page news for a LONG time.
The fact that RSL is now pushing for arbitration rather than dismissal of the case at this point actually indicates that Petke's petition is strong. RSL first asked for the case to be dismissed, and that didn't work. Now their asking for league-based arbitration, where they think they will have a better position. If they want anything other the case gove to civic court, they are actually concerned about "the contract."
I'm not the only one getting a blank at the end of this article, right? A literal blank at this point: Read the filing by Petke’s attorneys here:
Yeah maybe he has a strong case, I'm no lawyer so I don't know. I have no idea how big of a role the text messages play into this but assuming they don't hold too much weight I have yet to see an argument to sway me.
What point is Petke's attorney trying to make about Waibel? The original complaint contained language stating Waibel planned to quit. RSL and Waibel part ways. Now it's some notch on their side of the argument?
Seems like bluster to me. But I immediately discount anything said by an attorney to media during a legal dispute.
What a soul sucking season. We definitely should be absolutely stoked that RSL was able to finish 3rd in the west and get a home game and also ended up on the better side of the bracket avoiding LAFC until the WC final. All of this after a more than hectic, much more, season of upheaval inside and out of the club. The list of distractions is nearly endless this season. And at the end of the day the players stuck together and made the most of the season so far. Props to them. As for me I'm stuck between wanting to go all in and support the teams playoff success knowing that if they make a run to the cup it means more Freddy and less improved soccer next season. I will be there Saturday, rain or shine, and next season as well but change is desperately needed for RSL and I hope that they take a proactive route and not just wait for the inevitable horrible season that next year could be to make their minds up for them.
I may be missing something, but they requested both items in their motion. They motioned for the case to be dismissed due to the contractual requirement of disputes being settled by arbitration. It wasn’t a request for dismissal and then a request for arbitration.
Text messages are discoverable items that are considered during discovery. Petke’s complaint included some text screenshots, but what I’m more curious about are the text messages he references without a screenshot. There were several that are mentioned without images to back them up. Will the texts backup his assertions? Why not include those screenshots as well?
This. I haven’t seen a response to RSL’s motion to dismiss. Seems like the lawyer is trying to ride the attention RSL is garnering in the buildup to this weekend’s playoff game.
The "experts" seem to be slightly more supportive of Petke's side than against it according to my read, which makes me feel a bit better. I'd begun to think I was off kilter as many fans seem to be thinking/assuming that Petke's suit is BS. Maybe that's because people struggle to separate the legal standing from their personal feelings about Petke and his actions. Absence a settlement, this will get really, really ugly. I think the point is that Waibel's sudden departure adds credibility to Petke's version of events. If the below comments were not really uttered by Waibel, then Petke is lying/exaggerating in an attempt to win his case. If these comments from Waibel were true then: 1) they were probably the reason for his departure/firing, and 2) they either indicate bad faith in the process that led to Petke's firing or that Waibel wasn't being straight with Petke, which could be the case but starts to get out on the fringes of a reasonable assumption. Not a smoking gun or silver bullet, but it does lend some credibility to Petke's claims. IMO, it would have been very advisable for DLH to keep Waibel on board through the end of the season. Firing him in the middle of the season feeds into Petke's claims made in his legal complaint. “When I woke up, and read it, he’s talking to fans like it’s almost a casual conversation, like, ‘Oh, look at me! I’m the owner and I want to talk.’” “I don’t know how he can go back. He’s on video. He’s on video!” “He [Hansen] really put himself in a corner. I mean, I don’t know some bullsh#t, I’m just preparing for the worst.” “I know, but once it’s public there’s no going back.” “He [Hansen] doesn’t give a f*ck about anything but himself. He’s spazing.” “He [Hansen] cares about him. He f*cked up because he ran his mouth to Don [Garber] and you know, it’s all about him. It’s always about him.” “It was gross how quickly [Hansen] changed his tune. This is 100% about him.” “It’ll be at the end of the year, because I also don’t think Dell Loy [Hansen] should ever be rewarded for who he is.” "I have always known where the issues in this organization are born . . . and I have never once believe[d] that anything last year was created by you or I as individuals. This is [the toughest] work environment in major league soccer without a doubt.
Same here, and I do not see DLH as a guy who will settle since this appears to be personal. The only way he settles imo is if the likely outcome will cast him publicly as a buffoon, bully, or other similar negatively connoted personality.
You know who else doesn't seem to give a f*ck about anything but himself? Petke, who still hasn't even acknowledged he did a shitty thing that is a fire-able offense. Unless his argument is that he could have been fired, but wasn't immediately so he should not have been.
That's clear. I think because of that many RSL fans don't want his lawsuit to be successful, but as we know, likability and legal success don't always go hand-in-hand.
New article with strengths and weakness of Petke's case: Strengths of Petke's case from Utah employment attorney, Spencer Philips, regarding violation of terms and arbitration: “The claims against Real Salt Lake have real merit and will be taken seriously by the court,” Phillips said. “This is not a frivolous lawsuit by any means.” Phillips said there appeared to be no grounds for firing Petke because there was no evidence that he violated any terms of that July 29 agreement. “I also see a strong claim that RSL violated their obligation to treat Mr. Petke fairly or with good faith, which is an implied obligation in any contractual relationship,” he said. Another point of contention is the request for arbitration. Under Major League Soccer’s constitution, disputes between any MLS employees or teams can be arbitrated by Garber or someone Garber appoints. RSL argues that a provision in Petke’s contract compels him to resolve the matter between him and the club. Petke’s lawyers believe that is overstating it. They say the contract never explicitly requires arbitration, and instead makes reference to disputes being handled according to Utah laws. Weaknesses of Petke's case from Lauren Scholnick, an employment and labor law attorney at Strindberg & Scholnick weighs on the disciplinary notice, but also agrees on the unlikely arbiration: [She] sees the post-incident agreement, dated July 29, as more akin to a formal disciplinary notice that’s added to an employee’s file. If that's how the agreement is interpreted, then the team had the right to fire him, she said. But Petke could have a point if the courts see that agreement as an extension of his contract. In that case, “maybe he does have an argument that the team acted in bad faith,” Scholnick added. ...Scholnick said the language simply isn’t explicit enough to merit RSL’s assertion that the dispute end up in arbitration, and that the club is “doing a lot of contortions” to reach that conclusion. “They could have just as easily written something that said, ‘All disputes under the employment agreement must go to arbitration under the MLS constitution’ and they didn’t do that,” Scholnick said. “So it’s some creative lawyering on the part of Real.” Likely outcome by the experts: If it doesn’t get sent to arbitration, Scholnick and Phillips say settlement negotations, rather than a trial, appear likely.
Why in the world would he publicly make a statement that would certainly be used against him by RSL’s legal team?
Just a note that according to the original articles, it isn't 100% clear to me that Waibel was fired per se. I've been assuming that shit hit the fan after his private text messages became public via the lawsuit, which created a lousy work environment for everyone. From the article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ml...ke-part-ways-general-manager-craig-waibel?amp https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2019/09/28/real-salt-lake-gm-craig/ (Waibel statement) Yes, it gives credence to the text messages, it leaves a lot to interpretation. Intent and context are missing. I've said a lot of shit to angry coworkers in an attempt to validate them and comfort them.
I agree with you, but lets look at what Petke did here. He and his attorney(s) spent literal pages of the complaint trying to justify the awful words he said and the deliberate derogatory actions he took with the officiating staff. Why the ******** is that relevant to the complaint? This is where my coloring of Petke is 100% making it hard to give his complaint the review it deserves. By no means is he required to go apologize, but he also doesn't have to go and (try to) defend his actions... especially with really shitty and simply non-factual logic
this is a good point Also worth noting, Andy Carroll (who I would personally LOVE to see leave the club) is still with the club. He was credited with saying pretty much the exact same stuff as Waibel in terms of leaving and hating the ownership. Which also brings me to a point of being both happy these idiots are out (I was not a fan of any of the three) but also sad to see what it took to make them go. And, as has been said over and over again, DLH's track record of hiring replacements is not pretty.
So damn much this. That we were somehow successful this year should not lead ANYONE to believe that this is sustainable. It reminds me of the cRapids in 2010. Yeah, they made a run and won the cup, but nobody with a mind thought they were going to be contenders going forward. Heck, they weren't even supposed to be (and weren't) all that good in the following season. The writing is on the wall with this team that things have to change or 2020 is going to be up there with 2005 in terms of UGLY.
Look at it from his POV. There are 2 fronts he and his team are fighting. The first is the lawsuit, which we have all discussed and will continue to. The second is his future career. For the sake of both he needs to make the strongest possible effort to minimize and rationalize the insult. ie, make it appear to be something other than it is. It’s classic PR spin. You keep saying it until people start to actually believe it. It’s a very effective mass audience technique. My guess is that one day, when all of this has blown over, he will make the apology. At the same time, he might be the ***hole some say he is and never apologize. But for now, his team’s strategy is to minimize the insult.