Review: The Penalty Non-Call (Edu)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ImaPuppy, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Back at ya.
     
  2. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Well, in truth, if the ball is out of play, it is not a foul. It can be a sanction - card for instance - but it cannot be a foul. At the same time, all careless tripping, hitting, charging etc. is not required to be called. It can be considered trifling in the judgement of the ref (why most shit tugs are not called, for instance. Untucking a shirt is not a game changing event.

    That said, I think Edu was very lucky not to get called there. That was a rash and unwise challenge poorly timed. It was always going to be ugly - even if legal - and always risked a call (btw, I do not think it was legal. It was certainly careless.)
     
    dwsmith1972 and SPA2TACU5 repped this.
  3. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    If I were in charge of the rules, I would change the rule for penalties such that a penalty from the spot is called when a player is fouled in the box and denied a clear goal scoring opportunity. I'd come up with some other remedy for when a player is fouled in the box without a DOGSO. Until a rule change like that occurs, we'll continue to see ref nullification, where refs ignore the rules to preserve the integrity of the outcome. That doesn't trouble me.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember Hejduk getting away with a stone cold penalty in qualifying in 2000 in Costa Rica.
     
  5. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In your new scenario, wouldn't the same ref nullification problem exist? Given the "out" of two different types of remedies, wouldn't we be likely to see refs give the minor non pk remedy more often than not for instances which DOGSO was present? Sort of like how when a foul occurs right inside or near the box, refs seem to almost always call them as outside the box.
     
  6. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Maybe, but I think refs have little problem calling a penalty when they think a true goal scoring opportunity was denied by a foul.

    Edit- I actually think your inside outside the box dilemma is related to the same problem I identified. They call it outside the box because the don't think the foul was a DOGSO.
     
  7. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    And we do seem to get calls against Canada. But in the WC we get some terrible calls against and they never seem to even out.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Neither the Edu tackle nor the Bradley 'push' were lucky non-calls. Refs increasingly swallow the whistles in those types of scenarios. The defender is foolish to not take the chance. I'm watching the Bayern-Juventus. An attacker gets impeded in the area--and he gets called for the dive on what at worse should have been a non-call.

    Blatant hand balls. Slide tackles that collide into the attacker. Not too much else gets called in the box.
     
  9. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Both calls are in the opinion of the Ref. With regard to the Bradley call I don't see a penalty in any way. Originally, you were never allowed to put your palm on a player. Now, FIFA indicates that the use of hands in the game is natural. It becomes a direct kick if the play is reckless, etc. I just don't see any way that Bradley's little mini shove was reckless or that there was any advantage gained.

    The Edu call was much more on the borderline. I believe here everything has to do with the position you watch the play from. The referee was on Aquino's side of the play and probably was watching him kick the turf so from his vantage point it was just a player succumbing to the laws of physics. Apparently he also saw Edu block the ball, which was not the case. On Edu's side we see a bit of a risky play where Edu is too close to Aquino and may have impeded him. Was it a stone cold penalty? No. Was it a callable penalty? Yes. But, most of the evidence for this was hidden from the ref's vantage point. Would the ref have called a penalty if he had a better view? Maybe, maybe not. I think most ref's are loathe to call a penalty unless a semi decent scoring chance was denied.
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    They're all callable penalties. The trend is the refs don't call them, or they simply call a narrower range than what they once did.
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Take for example the sliding tackle in the box that misses ball and impedes the attacker but doesn't collide into the attacker. That used to be a pk as in Italy vs Australia in '06. Now if the attacker goes down that ref whips out the yellow for diving.

    That pk against Gooch in '06? Now that Ghana player would get a yellow smacked upside his head.
     
  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Watching the RSL highlights...an RSL player gets tripped form behind in the box plain as day...

    yellow! diving!

    Titi, what have you wrought!:mad:
     
  13. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    For what it's worth, I am not arguing that the ref could not have called it a pk. I think Edu got VERY lucky that the ref didn't. But I also see that it within the realm of possibilities that the ref saw something to indicate it was not a penalty, and was not merely swallowing the whistle on a blatant foul. In other words, I think the ref could have called it, but the fact that he did not is not totally egregious to me.​
    FWIW.​
     
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  14. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    I have no clue what youre on about.

    Here, learn something about the LOTG:

    A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
    • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
    • trips or attempts to trip an opponent
    • jumps at an opponent
    • charges an opponent
    • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
    • pushes an opponent
    • tackles an opponent

    A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:
    • holds an opponent
    • spits at an opponent
    • handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
     
  15. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Yawn
     
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  16. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which the ref promptly made up by imagining an arm growing out of Berhalter's forehead. (Or, if you want to be more charitable, imagining that he headed the ball down onto his arm and this was somehow in instance of deliberately handling the ball.)
     
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  17. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No, that was barely a touch at all, certainly not anything either careless or reckless. His leg is well to the inside of Aquino. The ref was perfectly positioned for this, which is why he got it right
     
  18. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    From that angle one can't see particularly well if there was anything more than trifling contact. Aquino pitches forward on the muffed shot, it appears. Was there careless contact by Edu on a player already ptotching forward on his own? Maybe but the ref was better positioned than the camera
     
  19. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not if they are diving. Kicking the ground to pitch forward is one method

    However as has been pointed out the laws aren't that any contact is a foul. I can't tell if or how much contact Edu makes with Aquino. It looks as much like Edu was lunging to the outside past Aquino to block the shot, and a quinoa back swing hits Edu's trailing leg enough to screw him up. If so Edu knew nothing about it and cannot be said to trip a player who kicks him rather than the other way around. As I've said, the ref had a better angle than any of the cameras
     
  20. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    This analysis only makes sense if Edu's right leg made careless contact with Aquino. I don't think you can tell from this video. For all we know the ref saw Aquinos foot hit Edu and Aquino go down with no further involvement from Edu. Sure, if Edu actually lunged into Aquino, then it's a PK. Not sure that's what happened though. Getting the ball or not isn't relevant here, I'd agree
     
  21. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This, this, this.

    Ludicrous challenge by Hejduk.
    Equally egregious make up call.
     
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  22. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Holy hell, this thread is still going? I created a monster!
     
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  23. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    what do you think "careless" means?
     
  24. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    You....SON....OF...A.. BITCH!
     
  25. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    I was watching the Seattle/Santos game last night, and there was a play where Herculez Gomez had the ball toward the upper corner of the box, with a defender closing in on him from behind him fast. He got the shot off, and then the defender barreled into him. The shot went wide, and was actually out of play by the time the defender got him. No one even discussed whether it was a penalty. Gomez did not get up searching for one. The commentators never discussed it. But it was a very similar play to what happened at Azteca (although to be fair, Edu was closer to Aquino then the defender was to Gomez last night at the time of the shot).
     

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