So, like most of you here and like everyone on the ESPN broadcast, after seeing the replay about 10 times of Edu seemingly clattering into Aquino in the second half and the referee inexplicably not calling what looked to be a clear penalty, I was confused as to why it wasn't called. I was also confused as to why there was debate about it from those who watched the Uni Deportes broadcast of the game, as I assumed we had all seen the same angles. Well, I have an answer, and its pretty definitive. Turns out...the referee got it (almost) completely right. In fact, we may have been the unfortunate ones. View this video: http://futbol.univision.com/seleccion-nacional/videos/video/2013-03-27/mexico-vs-estados-unidos-otro 30 or so seconds into the video there is a super slo-mo replay from a very nice angle. In that sequence you'll see Aquino kick the ground well before the ball, and he'll kick the ground HARD: Upon doing so, Aquino shanks his shot completely without Edu ever making contact with the ball, and is already falling off balance before Edu comes into contact with him. Additionally, when Aquino is rolling around on the ground in agony grabbing his ankle (I don't think he was faking being hurt, because kicking the ground that hard hurts), you can see the patch of grass that got kicked up about 2 meters behind him. I was adamant that the non-call was the wrong call...but it turns out the call was wrong in the sense that it should have been a goal kick in our favor, incredible. This was THE big play of the game, and I wanted to make this thread in order to spread this specific angle since ESPN didn't show it, and to help people understand what the referee was looking at (look at his positioning, he clearly saw Aquino kick the ground hard). Anyway, my mind has been changed, and I can't believe it.
Thanks for that. I feel much better about this point now. Too bad, so sad, Mexico. We will be keeping that screenshot handy for a while for 'visitors' to our forum ;-)
The non-call may have been right, but the ref still got it wrong. (Huh ?) The re-start was a corner. The ref thought that the shanked ball was because Edu got the last touch. I suspect the phantom Edu touch was the reason the ref did not signal PK.
I'm not going to argue with Ima's or Matt's post (especially the latter) -- but I think there's still a very large common sense argument for Edu to simply not make a challenge like that, in the box, from behind, at the spot, that late, in this stadium, in a WCQ match. I mean, look at that still frame in the original post -- he is coming in hard and low from behind. I understand he was trying to block that shot and not wipe out Aquino's calves -- but why oh why would you present that situation to the ref? Plus -- look at the whole play, via that clip: Edu completely sleeps on his mark Aquino. That is why he has to make such a late bonehead challenge. He lunges in because he's ballwatching and lets Aquino drift behind him into a completely open goal scoring position. However -- Guzan is there, Omar is there, Beaz is even on the line. I still say you do not make that challenge and give the ref every opportunity to point to the spot. And this is not some macro beef against Mo; just that was a bad play.
Absolutely 100% agree. This thread was not made to excuse Mo. This was made to excuse the ref and to give some insight on an angle many observers hadn't seen. Not a good decision to dive in there by Mo, especially away...and in CONCACAF.
The announcers hit it spot on too...el Profe said it wasn't a penalty, and another announcer (don't know who) even got it right that it should have been a goal kick. Quality stuff from the univision guys...especially comparing to Darke and Tays who shouted penalty without even thinking.
I posted this in the general thread, but if we're doing a missed penalty review, here's the Bradley Push + Swan Dive for comparison. Anybody have a clip and opinion on Cameron's header from Herc's corner?
I watching ESPN too. From the main broadcast angle, it looked incriminating. But I remember thinking it would be nice to see another angle. Edu's body completely blocks any view we have of the challenge. That said, CyC is right. Boneheaded play by Edu, especially nursing a 0-0 tie in the 75th min.
Absolutely. I was just holding my head in my hands when Davis chopped that guy down from behind in the late going. Where is mentality in that?
Thanks for the slo mo video. Clearly Edu hit Aquino with his knee just when the Mexican player was swinging, causing him to kick the ground. You can see Aquino's shorts buckled, that's a penalty for me. Usually we're the receiving end of referee's bad call. We were lucky this time and I'm happy the team got a point in Azteca.
We have been called for stupid fouls like that in the past. Glad the Guatemalan Ref just let us play out there.
In the game, I thought both penalty shouts were legit and we had escaped. After seeing the slo-mo on both, the Guatemalan ref was right. Chicharito felt a hand touching him and threw himself on the ground (was not pushed there) and Aquino was thrown off by the presence of Edu and kicked the ground. I actually feel relieved after seeing the video of both incidents.
That first Chicharito penalty claim was so hilarious. The Unimas Television Play-by-play guy Ramirez was going crazy, screaming for a penalty. The color commentator Bracamontes basically said he did not think it was a penalty. After looking at the replay I agree with you. And what goes around comes around cause Gomez had a lot worse happen to him in the friendly in the Azteca in the penalty box. No call was made then either.
Honestly, the lack of pressure on the ref to give the PK was for me one of the strongest signals that our possession-based approach to defense had paid off. I really think that, had Mexico had several closer opportunities that got everyone baying for blood and raised the adrenaline levels, the PK would have been likelier to be called (fitting a mental narrative of "it was coming" that affects even refs). Instead, it was an egregious but isolated incident. Ridiculously poor decision to dive in, though, from someone who's been through the wars. That's getting called in Central America close to 95% of the time.
Even if the ref thought that Aquino had kicked the ball away first, he still could have called a penalty for the simple foul of coming through Aquino from behind. It's not as if Aquino stops being player just because the ball was gone. Now, many refs are reluctant to award penalties on plays with no scoring chances, but it doesn't mean that many such penalties aren't awarded. It's still a foul in the area.