The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Dont know why klopp has dropped his best crossed of the ball for this match. I've said it before but Robertson's delivery is shocking at times
     
  2. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    Liverpool really lacks creativity in midfield. This is the one thing Klopp has failed to adress
     
  3. AJ123

    AJ123 Member

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
  4. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Saka is looking the dog's bollocks
     
  5. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Sancho scores again
     
  6. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    English eligible players starting in the Premier League, total per matchday:

    Matchday 1 - 83/220 = 37.7%

    Matchday 2 - 74/220 = 33.6%

    Matchday 3 - 75/220 = 34.09%

    Matchday 4 - 74/220 = 33.6%

    Matchday 5 - 75/220 = 34.09%

    Matchday 6 - 69/220 = 31.36%

    Matchday 7 - 76/220 = 34.54%

    Matchday 8 - 73/220 = 33.18%

    Matchday 9 - 77/220 = 35%

    Matchday 10 - 75/220 = 34.09%

    Matchday 11 - 71/220 = 32.27%

    Matchday 12 - 74/220 = 33.6%

    Matchday 13 - 79/220 = 35.9%

    Matchday 14 - 80/220 = 36.36%
     
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  7. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Tosin Adarabioyo doing well at Blackburn this season. Think people are starting to realise that we need to be a bit more patient with these centre halves because it's so tough for them to get minutes in their position + then to get a proper run of them. Tosin has the added advantage that he's got good size, that a lot of ours have lacked in recent years. Clarke-Salter playing now at Birmingham too. Long term, they could emerge as options.

    Think we often judge some of these players very harshly, simply because we've heard of them + been tracking them from earlier on than others.

    Konsa also playing regularly now. Long term, I think the 97s will provide us with some good players, despite early bumps.
     
  8. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    I would say Joe Worrall at Forest too, he looked like he lost track last season, but now he is a safe point in a strong defence.
     
  9. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    It seems that so many of the better centre backs are coming from the smaller academies and the EFL, because the exposure they get to first team football at an earlier age really brings them on.

    Maguire, Mings, Stones, Gomez, Tarkowski are all players that have played a decent amount of games in the EFL before a move.

    It's probably the one position, alongside GK, that EPPP struggles most with - like a number of others on here I've watched hundreds of U18, U21, U23 games at club level and defenders and goalkeepers just aren't tested in the way they need to be, and then their loans arranged aren't as fruitful as they need to be because they often can't cope and it's unfair on loaning clubs for them to 'learn on the job' for too long.

    I note a couple of clubs are sending young players down deep into the non leagues, I think that is a good idea as it gives them a body of work in mens football which should allow for better loan spells as the managers are picking them up with greater evidence of what they can do when the going gets tough.

    We currently have a CB and a LB (both are young pros - 1st year and 2nd year) on loan in Step 2, plus another CB and a LB (both 2nd year scholars) on loan in Step 4. They'll be better for it.

    No easy to solution to it, but the likes of a Tomori where they get a good loan, and played regularly are very much the exceptions and not the rule (and were helped by Chelsea/Abramovich connections in the dugout) and there is a need to strike the balance between a good amount of mens football and still getting good level coaching and tests across youth football with your peers.
     
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  10. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I think the most obvious problem is just how small a lot of the CBs at the top clubs/England younger age groups are. So many of them are sub 6ft and it just reduces the chances of them making it so much.

    Even look at guys like Rob Dickie + Adam Webster. England knew they had something about them, but it's taken them time to get into a good place and then get some recognition. I think a lot of our eventual best centre halves will completely skip the U21s. Either they'll take a 'step back' and be out of contention or will rise to prominence much later. For various reasons, we're unlike France and don't just have a production line of 6'4 guys ready to play at 18. Probably to do with the pathway problems but also just they've got so much going for them to build their player pool.

    Someone like Trev Chalobah is a perfect example of how we're not quite sure how to develop players. Maybe he would've been much better off in the long term dropping down to L2 or L1 at the start of last season to play centre half. Every loan as a midfielder, he gets further away from convincing a Championship side to ever play him there.

    Ben White path is interesting. L1 + L2 loans, but took about a month at Leeds to look like a future international. Was flying completely under the radar. Bielsa's scouting set up is pretty phenomenal really. Took balls to be that confident that he could come in and play like he has.
     
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  11. dbs235

    dbs235 Member

    Mar 30, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Can you expand on that mate?
     
  12. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Very few super rich clubs. So they're constantly turning over players and are an affordable league to shop in for foreign teams, then when a player is sold they're replaced by the next youngster up. Amazing football culture, both of playing + coaching. Amateur clubs everywhere devoted to coaching kids, diverse populations of city kids who love playing football.

    Being in the sweet spot of finance is the real benefit to them. Everyone wants to shop there. Why would German sides buy an English kid for 15-20m from a Championship side when they can get 4 from France for that amount. Anyone who does well quickly moves up too. Just a constant conveyor belt, loads of talent, loads of opportunity + loads of upwards movement for players. Reserve sides also getting to play a form of senior football. Just so many more chances to not fall through the cracks or stagnate if you're a player there.
     
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  13. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Has anyone seen much of Jude Bellingham recently? Birmingham haven't been televised for a while but he's been consistently starting matches as a CM.

    He wasn't in the last two England camps, so there might be an agreement to let him rest during the international breaks.
     
  14. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    The size thing is a good point, because realistically you need to be able to handle yourself as a CB and size matters. Is this a Talent ID issue, that clubs play players in positions that they are unlikely to be able to make a career in due to physical issues?

    Is someone like Joël Latibeaudiere going to be good enough to play CB for England? Because at his height he will need to be exceptional, would he have been better being reassigned when it was clear he wasn't going to get past 6 foot?
     
  15. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    How highly rated is eze at qpr? He was quality vs derby, seeing him live I thought he was easily the best player on the pitch
     
  16. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I think it's a tough balance to figure out. If you're re-assigning Latibeaudiere, in reality is that just City getting rid of him? It's one reason i've always been more bullish than most on Rhys Williams + then Mark McGuinness at Arsenal. Don't think they'll get close to making it at their current clubs, but interested to see where they get to by the time they're 23/24.

    I always felt like Dinzeyi at Spurs was almost this type of project. They had Tanganga, Lyons-Foster + Eyoma on the small size and Dinzeyi never really made much immediate sense other than as a 'project.'

    Academies are constantly adapting and adapting so maybe we'll see a load of units coming through in an adjustment soon. There's a lad from QPR called Hamzad Kargbo, who would be on my 'watchlist' in terms of this conversation. Absolutely huge kid, they've moved him up top this season from defence. Might be too much of a success as a striker to ever switch back though.
     
  17. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Luke Woolfenden at ITFC is excelling in League 1 currently, a ball player at the back but is 6'2 or 3 and can win his battles in the air - will be in the second tier next season with or without us.

    Our 2 first year scholar CBs are 6'4 and 6'5, which is a change in how ITFC have done things recently, whether that is deliberate or just co-incidence I don't know but neither are playing many minutes this season, but one is due to injury. The tallest, who is also left footed, Elkan Baggott could end up being one to watch as when he has played he has tended to defend well and score!
     
  18. Juni

    Juni Member+

    Nov 26, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Kargbo is so much bigger in person than he looks on film too, he's freakish. Similar development path to Elijah Adebayo, who switched to a forward at Fulham and never went back.
     
  19. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Ricky jade jones has only just turned 17 but already looks a great prospect 3 in 4 for Peterborough
     
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  20. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    I watched the game last night, is absolutely lightning quick, took his goal well but didn't do much else well. But so, so fast
     
  21. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Jones, Brewster and Elliott will all travel to the Club World Cup, so they will miss the cup match unfortunately. As a full Liverpool squad travels it means they will be there just as subs, they won't play much I'm afraid.
     
  22. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    What a waste of time for those three players! Just merely there as cover but does very little for gaining more senior match experience which is what they need. Maybe not as vital for Elliot just yet but Brewster and Jones do imo.
     
  23. ADM99

    ADM99 Member

    Apr 28, 2019
    Reports are saying they'll play the Cup game & then travel.
     
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  24. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Thanks, it would make sense to do so.
     
  25. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    If Klopp is rotating for Everton he'll be rotating even more heavily for whoever's coming up in the CWC.
     

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