The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Fwiw, for anyone waiting for the youth squads to be announced today, I don’t think it will happen. I suspect it will be tomorrow as the seniors is announced today and I bet they follow the same procedure as last time.
     
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  2. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    What are you hoping to see Marcho?

    I’m hoping for Barnes to join Sancho, Mount and Sessegnon in the U21 squad (with Maddison likely called to the seniors.) That’s quite an attack!

    I’m curious to see if Greenwood, Jones or Garner move up to the U19s.
     
  3. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    non- Goalkeeper England qualified situation at each Premier League club (club produced by) - obviously some players retired

    ARSENAL (3)
    Rob Holding 23 (Bolton)
    Ainsley Maitland-Niles 21 (Arsenal)
    Danny Welbeck 28 (Manchester United)

    CHELSEA (4)
    Gary Cahill 33 (Aston Villa)
    Dan Drinkwater 28 (Manchester United)
    Ruben Loftus-Cheek 22 (Chelsea)
    Ross Barkley 25 (Everton)

    EVERTON (10)
    Jonjoe Kenny 21 (Everton)
    Michael Keane 25 (Manchester United)
    Phil Jagielka 36 (Sheffield United)
    Mason Holgate 22 (Barnsley)
    Leighton Baines 34 (Wigan) Everton
    Tom Davies 20 (Everton)
    Kieran Dowell 21 (Everton)
    Theo Walcott 29 (Southampton) Swindon
    Ademola Lookman 21 (Charlton)
    Dominic Calvert-Lewin 21 (Sheffield United)

    LIVERPOOL (9)
    Trent Alexander-Arnold 20 (Liverpool)
    Nathaniel Clyne 27 (Crystal Palace)
    Joe Gomez 21 (Charlton)
    Jordan Henderson 28 (Sunderland)
    James Milner 32 (Leeds)
    Adam Lallana 30 (Southampton) Bournemouth
    Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 25 (Southampton)
    Daniel Sturridge 29 (Manchester City) Villa/Coventry
    Dom Solanke 21 (Chelsea)

    LEICESTER (8)
    Danny Simpson 31 (Manchester United)
    Harry Maguire 25 (Sheffield United)
    Ben Chilwell 22 (Leicester)
    Matty James 27 (Manchester United)
    James Maddison 22 (Coventry)
    Marc Albrighton 29 (Aston Villa)
    Demerai Gray 22 (Birmingham)
    Jamie Vardy 31 (Stocksbridge - non league) Sheff Wed

    MANCHESTER CITY (4)
    Kyle Walker 28 (Sheffield United)
    John Stones 24 (Barnsley)
    Fabian Delph 29 (Leeds) Bradford
    Raheem Sterling 24 (Liverpool via QPR)

    MANCHESTER UNITED (6)
    Phil Jones 26 (Blackburn)
    Chris Smalling 29 (Maidstone - non league) Millwall
    Ashley Young 33 (Watford)
    Luke Shaw 23 (Southampton)
    Jesse Lingard 26 (Manchester United)
    Marcus Rashford 21 (Manchester United)

    TOTTENHAM (7)
    Kieran Trippier 28 (Manchester City)
    Kyle Walker-Peters 21 (Tottenham)
    Danny Rose 28 (Leeds)
    Eric Dier 24 (Sporting Lisbon)
    Harry Winks 22 (Tottenham)
    Dele Alli 22 (MK Dons)
    Harry Kane 25 (Tottenham) Arsenal/Watford

    WEST HAM (7)
    Ryan Fredericks 26 (Tottenham)
    Aaron Cresswell 29 (Tranmere)
    Mark Noble 31 (West Ham)
    Declan Rice 19 (West Ham) Chelsea
    Jack Wilshere 26 (Arsenal) Luton
    Michail Antonio 28 (Totting & Mictcham - non league)
    Andy Carroll 29 (Newcastle)

    SOUTHAMPTON (8)
    Jack Stephens 24 (Southampton via Plymouth)
    Ryan Bertrand 29 (Chelsea via Gillingham)
    Matt Targett 23 (Southampton)
    James Ward-Prowse 24 (Southampton)
    Nathan Redmond 24 (Birmingham)
    Danny Ings 26 (Bournemouth)
    Charlie Austin 29 (Kintbury Rangers - non league) Reading
    Sam Gallagher 23 (Southampton via Plymouth)

    NEWCASTLE (4)
    Jamaal Lascelles 25 (Nottm Forest)
    Jonjo Shelvey 26 (Charlton) Arsenal/West Ham
    Isaac Hayden 23 (Arsenal) Southend
    Jacob Murphy 23 (Norwich)

    BRIGHTON (4)
    Lewis Dunk 27 (Brighton)
    Dale Stephens 31 (Bury)
    Solly March 24 (Brighton)
    Glenn Murray 35 (Workington reds - non league)

    HUDDERSFIELD (3)
    Tommy Smith 26 (Huddersfield via Manchester City) Tranmere
    Jonathan Hogg 30 (Aston Villa)
    Alex Pritchard 25 (Tottenham) West Ham

    BURNLEY (8)
    Matt Lowton 29 (Sheffield United) Leeds
    James Tarkowski 26 (Oldham)
    Ben Gibson 25 (Middlesbrough)
    Ben Mee 29 (Manchester City)
    Charlie Taylor 25 (Leeds)
    Jack Cork 29 (Chelsea)
    Ashley Westwood 28 (Crewe Alexandra)
    Aaron Lennon 31 (Leeds)


    BOURNEMOUTH (13)
    Adam Smith 27 (Tottenham)
    Simon Francis 33 (Bradford) Nottm Forest/Notts County
    Steve Cook 27 (Brighton)
    Tyrone Mings 25 (Yate Town - non league) Southampton/Bristol Rovers
    Charlie Daniels 32 (Tottenham) Norwich
    Dan Gosling 28 (Plymouth)
    Andrew Surman 32 (Southampton)
    Lewis Cook 21 (Leeds)
    Jordon Ibe 23 (Liverpool via Wycombe)
    Junior Stanislas 29 (West Ham)
    Marc Pugh 31 (Burnley)
    Jermain Defoe 36 (West Ham via Charlton)
    Callum Wilson 26 (Coventry)

    CRYSTAL PALACE (8)
    Joel Ward 29 (Portsmouth)
    Aaron Wan-Bissaka 21 (Crysal Palace)
    James Tomkins 29 (West Ham)
    Scott Dann 31 (Walsall)
    Martin Kelly 28 (Liverpool)
    Jason Puncheon 32 (Wimbledon)
    Andros Townsend 27 (Tottenham)
    Connor Wickham 25 (Ipswich)

    WATFORD (5)
    Nathaniel Chalobah 24 (Chelsea)
    Will Hughes 23 (Derby) Nottm Forest
    Tom Cleverley 29 (Manchester United) Bradford
    Troy Deeney 30 (Chelmsley Town - non league)
    Andre Gray 27 (Shrewsbury) Wolves

    FULHAM (4)
    Alfie Mawson 24 (Brentford) Reading
    Callum Chambers 23 (Southampton)
    Joe Bryan 25 (Bristol City)
    Ryan Sessegnon 18 (Fulham)

    WOLVES (4)
    Conor Coady 25 (Liverpool)
    Ryan Bennett 28 (Grimsby) Ipswich
    Kortney Hause 23 (Wolves)
    Morgan Gibbs-White 18 (Wolves)

    CARDIFF (9)
    Lee Peltier 32 (Liverpool)
    Sean Morrison 27 (Swindon) Plymouth
    Joe Bennett 28 (Middlesbrough)
    Joe Ralls 25 (Cardiff)
    Nathaniel Mendez-Laing 26 (Wolves)
    Josh Murphy 23 (Norwich)
    Danny Ward 27 (Bolton)
    Bobby Reid 25 (Bristol City)
    Gary Madine 28 (Carlisle)



    STATS

    128 outfield players

    Positions :
    Defenders 53
    Midfielders : 29
    Attackers : 27
    Centre-forwards : 19

    By Age :
    36 - Two (Two played England Yth)
    35 - One (Zero played England Yth)
    34 - One (1 played England Yth)
    33 - Three (2 played England Yth)
    32 - Five (3 played England Yth)
    31 - Seven (3 played England Yth)
    30 - Three (1 played England Yth)
    29 - Sixteen (12 played England Yth)
    28 - Thirteen (10 played England Yth)
    27 - Nine (4 played England Yth)
    26 - Ten ( 8 played England Yth)
    25 - Fifteen (12 played England Yth)
    24 - Nine (9 played England Yth)
    23 - Eleven (11 played England Yth)
    22 - Seven (7 played England Yth)
    21 - Eleven (11 played England Yth)
    20 - Two (2 played England yth)
    19 - One (Zero played England Yth)
    18 - Two (2 played England yth)

    By Club production

    Southampton 10
    Man Utd 8
    Tottenham 8
    Liverpool 6
    Leeds 6
    Chelsea 5
    West Ham 5
    Sheff Utd 5
    Man City 4
    Everton 4
    Charlton 4

    By Cat & Area

    Cat 1 South : 41 (12 clubs)
    Cat 1 North : 31 (12 clubs)
    Cat 2 North : 22 (10 clubs)
    Cat 2 South : 12 (10 clubs)
    Lower League : 21
    Non-League : 7

    Young players pushing at each club :

    Arsenal : Emile Smith-Rowe (18), Eddie Nketiah (19)
    Chelsea : Callum Hudson-Odoi (18)
    Liverpool : Curtis Jones (17), Rhian Brewster (18)
    Leicester : Hamza Choudhury (21)
    Man City : Phil Foden (18)
    Tottenham : Oliver Skipp (18)
    West Ham : Grady Diangana (20)
    Watford : Ben Wilmot (19)
    Fulham : Steven Sessegnon (18), Matt O'Riley (18), Harvey Elliott (15)
    Newcastle : Sean Longstaff (21)
    Burnley : Dwight McNeil (19)
     
  4. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
  5. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I would love if some of the more knowledable posters did grades of the youngsters, perhaps even stretching to under 23's if they're not in the prem. They know more than most of the journos.
     
  6. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Villa squad is a bit bloated but hopefully Bree, O'Hare, Davis and Hepburn-Murphy can get more into the mix there with Dean Smith & John Terry.
     
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  7. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Not really surprised as this was always on the cards especially after their transfer activity this past Summer but inevitably Everton are down to only three English starters for the game against Palace. Kind of disappointing as over the last few years, they have been a pretty good advert for playing English players.
     
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  8. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Smith Rowe is being eased into the first team set up. He’s a regular in cup games and on the bench tonight with Welbeck.
     
  9. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Hazard is injured for Thursday and Aarti says he wants to rest players for the weekend. Will we see Hudson-Odoi?
     
  10. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I very much doubt it to be honest plus I thought he was injured?
     
  11. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    #562 TopBanana10, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
    It’s just a knock apparently, so it shouldn’t rule him out. In Sarri’s words ‘I don’t know.’
     
  12. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Ok, that’s good that’s it’s nothing to worry about but I would still doubt he will play any part in the game.

    I genuinely wonder how the likes of CHO and others feel when they see Sancho getting the opportunity abroad and enhancing there reputations big time when it could be them also, CHO is easily talented enough to be as equally successful. Really hope he gets a good loan in January for his sake.
     
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  13. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    If he doesn’t get a game against Derby next week then the writing really is on the wall.
     
  14. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    World champions making a first-team mark

    The development of England’s Under-17 stars did not end last October and some have taken the next step, writes Paul Joyce

    Paul Joyce, Northern Football Correspondent
    October 26 2018, 5:00pm, The Times


    [​IMG]
    England’s Under-17 players celebrate beating Spain in the World Cup final last year in KolkataTOM DULAT/GETTY IMAGES
    Share
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    With respect to Gareth Southgate, the headline victory by an England side over Spanish opposition arrived not last week but last year. Twelve months ago tomorrow, to be precise, when a vision came to pass in front of 67,000 supporters in Calcutta.

    England Under-17s lifted the World Cup and did so playing a brand of uplifting, fearless football that not only allowed them to come back from 2-0 down in the final to win 5-2 but pointed the way forward.

    “One of the things we always wanted to do at St George’s Park, and one of the things that I felt passionately about, was we were sick to death of people telling us that we didn’t have any players in England who were technically good enough and tactically good enough,” Dan Ashworth, the technical director of the FA, said.

    “If there was one game, and one occasion, to sum up the last five and a half years, it was probably that game. We had beaten Brazil in the semi-final and were 2-0 down but playing well against Spain and really did outplay them.

    “It wasn’t playing it long, going on knock-downs or panicking. We played some brilliant stuff and it was the game that I felt, as a nation, we should all be proud of.”

    Winning was, of course, everything, with England becoming double world champions after the success of the England Under-20 side in June, yet that remarkable triumph under the command of Steve Cooper and his assistant, Mike Marsh, was not the culmination of a process.

    The ripple effects of the victory have been felt up and down the country, with seven members of Cooper’s squad having since played first-team football — another barometer by which the quality of emerging talent can be measured.

    Phil Foden, Morgan Gibbs-White, Callum Hudson-Odoi, Steven Sessegnon, Angel Gomes, Emile Smith Rowe and, of course, Jadon Sancho [who was recalled during the tournament by Borussia Dortmund] have continued to blaze a trail. Success has bred success.

    Despite their tender years, they have made, and are making, an impression at elite level and, to put this into context, only three members of the Spain squad have played senior football since the tournament ended: Ferran Torres of Valencia, Sergio Gómez, who shares a dressing room with Sancho at Dortmund and had scored the opening two goals of the final in India, and José Lara of Seville. They have made 24 appearances combined, the bulk supplied by Torres, compared with England’s 74.

    [​IMG]
    Sancho, who scored his first Champions League goal in midweek, has made an impression at Borussia DortmundCHRISTOF KOEPSEL/GETTY IMAGES
    The debate about blocked pathways and depth of talent may be more frenzied elsewhere in the future. “What the final win did, as with all the success of other teams, was raise the profile of English talent and it has allowed some players to be given opportunities,” Cooper, whose new batch of under-17s beat Brazil 3-1 last week, said.

    “You have players like Sancho, Phil and Morgan Gibbs-White who are in that first-team environment and getting opportunities to play on the bigger stage. We want to play well and win every event we enter but we know it is about, ‘What next?’ as well.

    “But it is important to say that the lads who are still in their club’s under-23 sides are still on the right path, still doing well. It is OK that some are not in the first team yet because some players need a bit longer.

    “Development is an individual situation. They are carrying on with their journey. All of that squad are still getting selected for England, which is good. We are sometimes quick to look at other countries and say they are doing great but we are doing some good things now. Let’s try and build on it.”

    There will be some who shrug their shoulders that seven players have made the breakthrough from a possible 23 but, as Cooper stresses, there is no set gauge that determines whether progress is being made.

    Liverpool’s Rhian Brewster won the Golden Boot in the tournament after scoring hat-tricks in the quarter-final and semi-final and, crucially, the goal just before half-time in the final that sowed seeds of doubt in Spanish minds.

    The forward would have been another pushing at the first-team door only for injury to interrupt his momentum. He is hoping to be back by Christmas after knee and ankle operations but he too has made strides since those head-turning cameos. The 18-year-old has signed a new long-term contract with Liverpool and his rehabilitation since January has been spent entirely with the first team because Jürgen Klopp has so much faith in him.

    Brewster is waiting to showcase his poacher’s instincts once again and past exploits have provided a sense of comfort during a painstaking recuperation.

    “I have looked back at the final many times while I’ve been injured,” he said. “You don’t win the World Cup every day. You don’t win the Golden Boot every day. I’ve watched videos of the games and my goals and they are there to remind me that, firstly, I am going to be back and I am not going to fade away. I just think if you are good enough you should play. That is my opinion. If you are 16, 17, 18 or if you are 22, 23, if you are good enough you should play.”

    Much was made of the group turning their shirts back-to-front in the celebrations after the final whistle, their names emblazoned for everyone to see, but the act was wrongly interpreted.

    [​IMG]
    Smith Rowe is receiving game time at Arsenal under Unai Emery having been a part of the World Cup-winning squadFRANCOIS NEL/GETTY IMAGES
    “It wasn’t about us promoting ourselves,” Brewster said. “We weren’t doing that. It wasn’t planned. One player did it first and then everyone in the squad just turned theirs round. It wasn’t showing off. It was about togetherness.”

    Cooper agreed with his player. “Although we were so proud and so chuffed with what we did, there was never a mentality from the players, staff or FA that we have cracked it,” he said. “It was, ‘Let’s make the most of this and achieve the big aims. Boys, you can be whatever you want to be.’ We are still in that process.”

    For someone who speaks in quiet tones, Brewster’s words demand to be heard. His next quote extolling a team-first ethos could line the walls at St George’s Park because it is as relevant as the utterances from Muhammad Ali and Daley Thompson that act as inspiration at England’s headquarters.

    “Everybody wants to win a World Cup, everyone wants to win a Euros, everyone wants to play for England,” Brewster said. “But if you get together then you are stronger than if you are trying just to do it yourself. Everyone is starting to realise that.

    “There are thousands and thousands of children who would want to be in our position. If I asked someone to swap lives with me, I know they would do it in a heartbeat, in a click of my fingers. So you just cannot take it for granted. Just leave everything on the pitch.”

    This is England’s future talking: ambitious, driven, committed and, increasingly, in control. And if it is not already, it could well soon be at a ground near you.


     
  15. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Brilliant and informative article. Really interesting when he compares and contrasts the Spain squad.
     
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  16. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Jenks and BarryfromEastenders repped this.
  17. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Considering their attitude towards Sessegnon and other young, English players - I don’t like to see Fulham struggling. Hope they can turn it around.
     
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  18. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    FA step up search for new as technical director

    The Football Association have stepped up their hunt for a new technical director to replace Dan Ashworth.

    Former Rangers manager Mark Warburton, Kevin Thelwell, the Wolverhampton Wanderers’ sporting director Kevin Thelwell, and ex-Manchester City technical director Mike Rigg are all in the running for the job.

    Ashworth will vacate the post in January in order to become technical director at Brighton & Hove Albion and the FA are keen to fill the role in a timely fashion.

    Warburton and Rigg are also in contention for the new technical director role at Burnley, along with Nick Hammond, who occupied the same position at West Bromwich Albion until his departure in April.

    Warburton - who has a close relationship with Burnley manager Sean Dyche from their time working together at Watford - is thought to be the frontrunner for the Burnley job, although whether he would be prepared to first wait to see what develops with the FA is unclear.

    [​IMG]
    Dan Ashworth with become Brighton's technical director in January CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES
    Warburton, 56, worked as a coach and sporting director at Brentford before becoming manager, winning promotion to the Championship in his first season in charge. In 2015, he took over as Rangers manager, winning a league and cup double in his first season. His last managerial job was with Nottingham Forest, where he lasted nine months before being sacked in December last year.

    Thelwell, 45, worked as director of coach education for the Football Association of Wales before joining Preston North End as director of youth in 2005. He later moved to Derby County as academy manager and has been at Wolves for the past decade, initially as academy manager and then later head of football development and recruitment and, for the past two years, as sporting director.

    Rigg, 48, was responsible for helping to build Manchester City’s global scouting network during the early years of Abu Dhabi ownership and worked closely with the club’s former recruitment chief Brian Marwood on signings. He left City to take on a similar role at Queens Park Rangers before joining the Football Association as head of talent identification. From there, he went to Fulham as chief football officer, a role he held for two years before his departure in December 2016. Most recently, he has been working as global football advisor for SRi, which specialises in identifying and hiring management talent across different fields, including sport.
     
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  19. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-not-physical-i-have-to-impress-in-other-ways

    He also talks about getting rejected by other clubs after leaving City for being too small. In the end he found the pathway that worked for him, but I cant help but wonder how many other talents get squeezed out if the game.
     
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  20. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Looking around at fans opinions today and it doesn't look good for Onomah and Field. So frustrating how little lee-way young players are given. You got to go straight in and look a million dollars.

    On a positive looks like Villa fans are loving Tuanzebe.
     
  21. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Tuanzebe played really well last night, as did Grealish. It probably won't happen and it's not a strong argument, but I'd like to see Grealish get a game in a friendly such as the USA game.

    On another note, good to see Leicester get a win after a tough week. Even better considering they started with 7 English players.
     
  22. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I've always wondered why he hasn't got more England recognition.

    Doesn't seem that long ago he was Mourinho's little project.
     
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  23. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #575 Garibaldi11, Nov 4, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
    We all know you got to hit the ground running as a young player but some tough times for our young forwards. So much pressure.

    Starts/sub on/goals

    Tammy Abraham (21)
    Chelsea 0 (3) 0
    Bristol City 42 (6) 26
    Swansea 21 (18) 8
    Villa 10 (0) 4
    * Think he has been super but what next like we all say.

    Dominic Calvert-Lewin (21)
    Sheff Utd 3 (9) 0
    Northampton 11 (15) 8
    Everton 34 (32) 13

    Izzy Brown (21)
    WBA 0 (1) 0
    Chelsea 0 (1) 0
    Vitesse 14 (10) 1
    Rotherham 17 (3) 3
    Huddersfield 17 (4) 5
    Brighton 5 (9) 0

    Adam Armstrong (21)
    Newcastle 4 (17) 0
    Coventry 38 (2) 20
    Barnsley 22 (13) 6
    Bolton 16 (7) 3
    Blackburn 28 (9) 13

    Dom Solanke (21)
    Chelsea 0 (1) 0
    Vitesse 21 (4) 7
    Liverpool 6 (21) 1

    Lukas Nmecha (20)
    Man City 0 (1) 0
    PNE 9 (5) 0

    Ben Brereton (19)
    Forest 41 (16) 9
    Blackburn 1 (7) 0

    Eddie Nketiah (19)
    Arsenal 0 (10) 2

    George Hirst (19)
    Sheff Wed 0 (2) 0


    Next up

    Rhian Brewster
    Danny Loader
    Stephen Walker

    Mason Greenwood
    Tyreece John-Jules
    Folarin Balogun
    Paul Glatzel
    Bobby Duncan
    Ellis Simms
     
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