The paucity of English opportunity thread

Discussion in 'England' started by wellno, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #251 Garibaldi11, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
    You know I just look at players like Luke Garbutt & Chuba Akpom & even Jerome Sinclair and just shake my head. How are they owned by the clubs they are still and in Sinclair's case what senior football has this guy played at 22.

    I see Everton gave Pennington an extension ? Not sure what the point was but surely he, Browning and Galloway won't be at Everton much longer ? Two are 24 & one is 22.

    There are so many.
    Ryan Kent & Sheyi Ojo at Liverpool too.
    Tuanzebe at United
    Roberts, Buckley-Ricketts & Adarabioyo at City

    Not sure if Marcus Edwards is still involved in football ? Probably has no future at Spurs anyway.

    Was just looking at forward stats in the Championship from some of our young English forwards part of the system in recent years. Taking out Prem loans.

    James Wilson (23) 7 starts 5 sub 1 goal
    Chuba Akpom (23) 25 starts 27 sub 3 goals
    Will Keane (25) 39 starts 22 sub 5 goals
    Jerome Sinclair 4 starts 10 sub 0 goals

    Some of the successes (varying)

    Tammy Abraham (21) 40 starts 1 sub 23 goals
    Izzy Brown (21) 29 starts 6 sub 7 goals
    Pat Bamford (25) 69 starts 30 sub 36 goals
    Harry Kane (25) 25 starts 13 sub 9 goals
    Connor Wickham (25) 53 starts 34 sub 22 goals
     
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  2. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, modern football I suppose.

    Player turnover is easier than the past. But sticking with young players who need that bit of confidence over a period of time would find a few more players allowed to become Premier League regulars.

    Solanke has it. We all know he does on here. But there are pressures that some young players feel are tough without feeling fully comfortable. So you right he has to start doing more soon to get that feeling. Hopefully the confidence of Klopp and players surrounding him gives him the best chance to do so.

    And Maitland-Niles has shown decent flashes of his ability of late too. Tough game at RB recently but before that decent.
     
  3. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Amn was played out of position for the most part

    He was getting better in a cm role
     
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  4. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Been looking at the minutes for young players across top 2 leagues and working on League 1 currently. All info on my twitter feed @ITFC_Academy

    But one thing I have noticed, is that the U20 WC winning squad have really been rewarded with some proper minutes this season? Is it co-incidence or are the 2 linked? We'll never know but does feel like that WC win has really pushed them on

    1 - Woodman - 450 minutes in SPL
    2 - Kenny - 1,588 minutes in EPL
    3 - Connolly - 2,549 minutes in Championship
    4 - Cook - 2,238 minutes in EPL
    5 - Tomori - 2,062 minutes in Championship
    6 - Clarke-Salter - 653 minutes in Championship
    7 - Onomah - 1,866 minutes in Championship
    8 - Maitland-Niles - 907 minutes in EPL
    9 - Armstrong - 1,117 minutes in Championship + 1,621 minutes in League 1
    10 - Solanke - 581 minutes in EPL
    11 - Lookman - 152 minutes in EPL + 574 minutes in Bundesliga
    12 - Konsa - 2,956 minutes in League 1
    13 - Henderson - 3,420 minutes in League 1
    14 - Walker-Peters - 188 minutes in League 1
    15 - Fry - 953 minutes in Championship
    16 - Calvert-Lewin - 1,873 minutes in EPL
    17 - Chapman - 313 minutes in League 1
    18 - Dowell - 2,698 minutes in Championship
    19 - Ojo - 1,402 minutes in Championship
    20 - Ejaria - 790 minutes in Championship
    21 - Southwood - None

    Not ideal in all cases, and some have gone backwards - but better than I was expecting
     
  5. Juni

    Juni Member+

    Nov 26, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Southwood played 4,050 minutes for Bath City this season.
     
  6. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Had missed that - thanks

    Overall though, this age group seemed to be getting a lot more minutes than the 96s and wonder if success at WC had anything to do with it
     
  7. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Think he needs to consider making a permanent move now. Newcastle continue to buy a new keeper every transfer window, and we saw at Aberdeen how unreliable loans can be when Lewis came back from injury early and benched him.
     
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  8. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member+

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Goalkeeper such a hard position to break through in, probably the position that relies the most on luck to get an opportunity as no manager tends to trust a really young keeper and will always sign experience if they have the chance to do so
     
  9. CCFC9

    CCFC9 New Member

    Coventry City
    England
    Jul 25, 2017
    Liverpool cancelled their pre season game against Monchengladbach because of their approach for Brewster
     
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  10. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    So when Liverpool took Brewster from Chelsea, im presuming everything was above board and legal, no rules broken etc?
     
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  12. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    What's an accidental meeting in Blackpool between strangers?
     
  13. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Courtesy of football fragmento:

    England U21 players in the PL & Championship in 2017/18
    [​IMG] Stephen Ward
    2 weeks ago
    Advertisements








    Here’s a breakdown of the English Under 21’s who played in the Premier League or the Championship in 2017/18





    English Under 21’s who played in the Premier League in 2017/18





    AFC Bournemouth – 2 – Lewis Cook, Jack Simpson

    Arsenal – 4 – Eddie Nketiah, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Reiss Nelson, Joe Willock

    Brighton & Hove Albion – 1 – Izzy Brown

    Burnley – 1 – Dwight McNeil

    Chelsea – 1 – Callum Hudson-Odoi

    Crystal Palace – 3 – Aaron Wan-Bissaka, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Levi Lumeka

    Everton – 6 – Beni Baningime, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, Tom Davies, Mason Holgate, Jonjoe Kenny, Ademola Lookman

    Huddersfield Town – 1 – Kasey Palmer

    Leicester City – 4 – Demarai Gray, Ben Chilwell, Hamza Choudhury, Harvey Barnes

    Liverpool – 3 – Trent Alexander-Arnold, Joe Gomez, Dominic Solanke

    Manchester City – 2 – Phil Foden, Lukas Nmecha

    Manchester United – 2 – Marcus Rashford, Axel Tuanzebe

    Newcastle United – 0

    Southampton – 1 – Josh Sims

    Stoke City – 3 – Tom Edwards, Tyrese Campbell, Josh Tymon

    Swansea City – 1 – Tammy Abraham

    Tottenham Hotspur – 3 – Harry Winks, Dele Alli, Kyle Walker-Peters

    Watford – 1 – Jerome Sinclair

    West Bromwich Albion – 2 – Sam Field, Rekeem Harper

    West Ham United – 1 – Reece Oxford





    42 English Under 21 footballers played in the 2017/18 Premier League



    2016/17 – 43

    2015/16 – 53

    2014/15 – 33







    England Under 21’s who played in the Championship in 2017/18





    Aston Villa – 7 – Keinan Davis, James Bree, Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, Andre Green, Callum O’Hare, Josh Onomah, Axel Tuanzebe

    Barnsley – 7 – Harvey Barnes, Jared Bird, Connor Mahoney, Dylan Mottley-Henry, Ike Ugbo, Joe Williams, Jack Walton

    Birmingham City – 6 – Wes Harding, Che Adams, Cohen Bramall, Josh Dacres-Cogley, Liam Walsh, Beryly Lubala

    Bolton Wanderers – 3 – Adam Armstrong, Reece Burke, Tyler Walker

    Brentford – 1 – Rico Henry

    Bristol City – 6 – Freddie Hinds, Lloyd Kelly, Ryan Kent, Jonathan Leko, Zak Vyner, Liam Walsh

    Burton Albion – 3 – Jacob Davenport, Will Miller, Joe Sbarra

    Cardiff City – 0

    Derby County – 3 – Mason Bennett, Kasey Palmer, Luke Thomas

    Fulham – 3 – Ryan Sessegnon, Sheyi Ojo, Tayo Edun

    Hull City – 4 – Max Clark, Jarrod Bowen, Fikayo Tomori, Daniel Batty

    Ipswich Town – 8 – Flynn Downes, Tristan Nydam, Teddy Bishop, Andre Dozzell, Myles Kenlock, Ben Morris, Callum Connolly, Luke Woolfenden

    Leeds United – 4 – Ronaldo Vieira, Cameron Borthwick-Jackson, Tom Pearce, Ryan Edmondson

    Middlesbrough – 3 – Marcus Tavernier, Dael Fry, Jack Harrison

    Millwall – 1 – Fred Onyedinma

    Norwich City – 3 – Angus Gunn, James Maddison, Marcus Edwards

    Nottingham Forest – 5 – Joe Worrall, Ben Brereton, Matty Cash, Tyler Walker, Kieran Dowell

    Preston North End – 3 – Josh Earl, Stephy Mavididi, Connor Simpson

    Queens Park Rangers – 4 – Eberechi Eze, Bright Osayi-Samuel, Aramide Oteh, Osman Kakay

    Reading – 3 – Tom Holmes, Omar Richards, Sam Smith

    Sheffield United – 2 – Regan Slater, Jake Eastwood

    Sheffield Wednesday – 4 – Sean Clare, Jack Stobbs, Jordan Thorniley, Connor Kirby

    Sunderland – 9 – Josh Maja, Jake Clarke-Salter, Elliot Embleton, Ethan Robson, Brendan Galloway, Ovie Ejaria, Denver Hume, Luke Molyneux, Bali Mumba

    Wolverhampton Wanderers – 2 – Morgan Gibbs-White, Harry Burgoyne





    94 English Under 21 footballers played in the 2017/18 Championship



    2016/17 – 112

    2015/16 – 93

    2014/15 – 77





    For the 2017/18 season, players born in 1996 or younger were classed as Under 21 footballers.

    In the 2017/18 Premier League we saw the number of English Under 21 players staying remarkably similar to the previous season. In some ways that’s disappointing after England’s young teams had such a wonderful summer in 2017 but it’s not surprising. Opportunities are limited at Premier League clubs and more & more players will end up going abroad like Jadon Sancho as they get properly developed as opposed to the odd game here & there.

    In the Championship there was a big reduction from 2016/17 which is a little disappointing. It is getting harder for young English players to get game time in that league as now many clubs are recruiting from abroad. It’s going to be interesting to see if that trend continues going forward. Still though a young English footballer is twice as likely to get game time in the Championship so it’s still a very important development league

    All in all, it’s still very hard for English young players to get the chances they need to develop. Even though better players are coming through that hasn’t changed yet. Perhaps it might in 2018/19? I wouldn’t bet on it. More players will end up going abroad over the next few years and that seems to be the way forward for young English footballers who are stuck going nowhere in development football. At least Europe is hungry to get these players who they can sell back to the Premier League. Funny how that works out!
     
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  14. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Frank Lampard is Derby County manager. Jody Morris likely to be his assistant. Could be an interesting one for potential England youth options. Saying that it could just as easily be meaningless in that regard.
     
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  15. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    "We want to build on the club’s top-six finish in the Championship last season, while at the same time bringing through some of the excellent youth and academy talent we have at Pride Park."

    Sounds like that's the intention at least. Unless you meant using their Chelsea contacts?
     
  16. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Also interesting what's going on in Coventry, where the Academy is one of the best in the Football League clubs: there was Maddison, also Callum Wilson before him, and now Bayliss, Shipley or Jodi Jones (though he came from Dag & Red as a teenager), and the next big thing is Jordan Ponticelli, a 19 year old striker.
     
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  17. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Yeah, regarding Derby I was thinking of loans and even possibly youth signings.
     
  18. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    and Allasani getting his football league chance. Should be interesting to watch them next season.
     
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  19. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I remember watching him in the Victory Shield all those years back, scored a cracking goal from memory and from what I remember he looked a really promising player, obviously hadn't seen that much of him unlike others from here but was kind of surprised he fell away at Palace.
     
  20. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Newcastle have resigned Dubravka on a permanent deal. Woodman needs an exit plan IMO.
     
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  21. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    It's ridiculous what Newcastle are doing with goalkeepers. He must be the 10th keeper or so on their books.
     
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  22. CCFC9

    CCFC9 New Member

    Coventry City
    England
    Jul 25, 2017
    #272 CCFC9, May 31, 2018
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
    I like the look of Billy Stedman. Nifty little number 10. Reminds me of Maddison. Came from Southampton via Chelsea - think a few Chelsea lads on here will know him. First year pro next season

    We have Adi Viveash as our assistant manager now so think a few ex Chelsea youngsters may well end up here. Signed Zain Westbrooke, previously at Brentford, on his recommendation.
     
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  23. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Curtesy of Football Fragmento:

    2017/18 – Number of English Players Used
    [​IMG] Stephen Ward
    2 hours ago
    Advertisements






    Here’s a breakdown of the number of English Players used in the Premier League & Championship in the 2017/18 season





    Premier League – Number of English Players Used





    AFC Bournemouth 14

    Arsenal 10

    Brighton & Hove Albion 8

    Burnley 10

    Chelsea 4

    Crystal Palace 11

    Everton 13

    Huddersfield Town 8

    Leicester City 10

    Liverpool 10

    Manchester City 6

    Manchester United 8

    Newcastle United 7

    Southampton 10

    Stoke City 9

    Swansea City 9

    Tottenham Hotspur 7

    Watford 7

    West Bromwich Albion 9

    West Ham United 8





    Most English Players Used – AFC Bournemouth – 14

    Least English Players Used – Chelsea – 4

    Average Number of English Players Used – 8.9

    (Avg in 2012/13 – 9.7, 2013/14 – 8.7, 2014/15 – 9.5, 2015/16 – 9.8, 2016/17 – 9.15)







    Championship – Number of English Players Used





    Aston Villa 15

    Barnsley 22

    Birmingham City 20

    Bolton Wanderers 21

    Brentford 9

    Bristol City 19

    Burton Albion 21

    Cardiff City 14

    Derby County 14

    Fulham 8

    Hull City 12

    Ipswich Town 21

    Leeds United 10

    Middlesbrough 16

    Millwall 13

    Norwich City 9

    Nottingham Forest 16

    Preston North End 18

    Queens Park Rangers 20

    Reading 9

    Sheffield United 18

    Sheffield Wednesday 15

    Sunderland 20

    Wolverhampton Wanderers 11





    Most English Players Used – Barnsley – 22

    Least English Players Used – Fulham – 8

    Average Number of English Players Used – 15.46

    (Avg in 2012/13 – 16.17, 2013/14 – 16.79, 2014/15 – 16.87, 2015/16 – 15.54, 2016/17 – 15.25)





    With this data, if a player has played for two clubs then he appears in both teams total. This wasn’t a common occurrence across the two leagues.

    This year the average number of English players in the Premier League fell and is the fifth lowest it’s been in the six years of collecting this data. With Wolves & Fulham being promoted there’s a good chance that next season it will drop to a record low. Clubs just don’t look in the English leagues for players and apart from the odd one making the breakthrough like Trent Alexander-Arnold it’s hard to see this changing. At least young English players have realised this and are starting to go abroad for development opportunities.

    The average number of English players in the Championship actually rose from 2015/16 but it’s still the fifth lowest figure from the six years of collecting data. With Wolves & Fulham getting promotion there is more optimism that more English players will get playing chances in the division next season. As an English footballer you are still nearly twice as likely to get a chance to play in the Championship and that hasn’t changed over the six years of collecting this data.

    The overall future for young English players getting chances now seemed to have evolved from the Championship to also going abroad where clubs will develop players properly. It’s going to be interesting to see how this affects the Premier League which has morphed into a world league based in England but maybe the likes of Jadon Sancho are trailblazers. We will see over the next few years how this works out.
     
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  24. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Expecting Loads of movement this summer.

    Ovie Ejaria to Rangers on loan looks to be happening.

    Rangers are reportedly close to completing a deal for Liverpool youngster Ovie Ejaria.

    The 20-year-old is said to be nearing a switch to Glasgow as Gerrard looks to put his stamp on the current Ibrox squad.

    Ejaria spent last season on loan with Sunderland and the Ibrox knows him well from his time at Anfield, report the Sun.

    Despite his impressive displays at youth level, the midfielder hasn’t been able to become a regular in Jurgen Klopp’s first team squad.

    Gerrard is currently in France watching the stars of the Toulon Tournament and Ejaria was part of the original England squad before pulling out.
     
  25. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Less fiction ITT please.
     

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