The Other Teams Thread

Really at the level of Pele and Maradona? I didn't see either live however sometimes I feel like they are both rated so highly due to how good they would have been without their bum knees.

 

Not to mention he got there at 30 too.

 

At Italy at 30 years of age in Italy and 40 when he went to Japan where he was hailed a hero! He had incredible talent! Too bad he played for the other bianconeri....

 

Posted a video focused on him and maradona in a Napoli Udinese game. Seems to have even outshined Diego that game.

 

A few of us were actually discussing Zico in this very thread awhile ago. To quote myself, in fact...

I'd take Zico over Maradona any day of the week, and it's not just because I despise Napoli.

I have a friend who's Brazilian and a massive Corinthinians fan, and he's one of two people who's word on Brazilian football I take as gospel. He rates Zico he as easily comparable to Pele, without blinking an eye.

 

Looks like Roma just exited the Europa League. It cost them big in the 2nd half of the first leg.

 

Honestly that 2nd half of the first leg was unacceptable play by them. Very disorganized and constantly giving the ball away in dangerous positions.

 

Interesting the amount of talk about Zico there is in this thread. My Nonno had moved to Canada by the time he arrived in Udine, but my Zio stills says to this day that Zico is the finest player he has ever seen. To think, I always thought he was delusional!

 

All of this talk about Zico, Maradona and who was better. Gentile had both of their numbers!

 

Zico was truly one of the greatest players to ever kick a football. Watch that video of him against Liverpool. It's almost comical, the way he ran circles around them.

The fact that he is overlooked while the likes of Pele and Maradona, as great as they were, are always spoken of is at least in part a reflection of how important the media has always been about shaping these narratives. There are innumerable other players who had comparable skill and talent, but for whatever reason, or a variety of them, never became famous in the way someone like Maradona did.

EDIT: But I totally agree with Falc. Defenders (especially central defenders) >>> all.

 

The talks of the defenders brings up a very important point that I always try to make on various media sites and just in general, but the general opinion seems to have cemented itself. Messi specifically has been stated by a good many as the greatest of all time. I always counter with that the quality of defending today is a lot worse than it was in the times of Diego, Zico, Platini etc. It's always pushed aside whenever I try to bring that point across. Attackers have SO MUCH more room for finesse and error. You can have a horrible game but end up scoring a goal and salvage it. As a defender (specifically a CB) you can have a great game and back stop a nearly perfect game, but one slip up and it is kind of ruined. Barely any room for error. Attackers get free reigns and little criticism in comparison to defenders. And this is coming from someone who vastly prefers attacking football.

EDIT: Also to add to the quality of defending today, go look at old tapes of what players like Maradona faced in Italy at the time. Gentile used to completely mutilate Diego when they faced. Tackling was ridiculously powerful and downright hazardous in comparison to today when just touching someone grants a foul.

 

R9 had a longer career by a bit compared to Baggio (Baggio essentially had no functioning knees early on). But both were incredibly injury ridden. For them to accomplish what they did despite all of what they faced was insane. I always reference the 94 run by Baggio. After the 3rd game, he was essentially on painkillers the rest of the tournament and was still able to drag a comparatively poor Italian team to the finals (this was just before the golden age with guys like Pirlo, Cannavaro, Totti etc.). Scoring 300+ goals on essentially one leg is a feat in of itself. I remember reading a quote by Cruyff when he said that if he had to build a team around a player (prior to Messi) it would have been Baggio. He was a Messi/Maradona level of talent. Same with R9. They were just immense. Watch a comp of Baggio's ridiculous ball control and creativity. He wasn't bound by a system (but you can only imagine if Juve decided to build the team around him with guys like Davids, Zidane and Laudrup supporting him) but was still able to flourish. R9's career should have effectively ended after he arrived in Italy. Man still went on to become the top goal scorer in WC history.

 

They did what they did with 1 knee. Imagine 2!

 

He really does look amazing when watching highlights of him. It seems that he isnt as highly rated as the likes of Pele and Maradona due to his international career being a bit of a flop, somewhat like Messi.....

 

My uncle rated Platini and Zico as the best he had ever seen.

 

Yeah, Brazil really were the heavy and understandable favorites to win the '82 WC, and they did have some truly phenomenal outfield players in that team.

It's also a reflection of how international football basically defined the sport for most of it's professional existence. Zico's fame and reputation, or lack thereof when compared to other players, is a reflection of that distortion.

But he's far from the only one. Google "Ricardo Bochini" or "Hector Chumpitaz" (or a countless number of others) and you only begin to realize how so many great, I mean truly great players, have been forgotten or never even heard of. Some are remembered as club or NT legends, but it's probably true that based on talent alone they were as deserving of a similar, if not the same, fame and reputation that someone like Maradona received.

 

All those guys didn't put an average Argentina side and Napoli on their shoulders and carry them to championships. Maradona did. End of story.

 

No, but Zico would have been capocannioniere with Udinese in only his first season in Serie A if it hadn't been for the injuries. And that was a time when scoring 20 goals in Italy really was an achievement.

All the more impressive considering he moved to Italy when he was 30. And he did it without being hopped up on cocaine, either. That's only taking into account his two seasons in Italy. What he achieved with Flamengo was incredible, and he capped it off with that performance in the 1981 Intercontinental Cup against a truly great European club side.

And I never said Maradonut wasn't great. It's just that Zico was comparably talented and it's a shame he didn't get the international recognition he deserved. Because it's always nice when a world class talent isn't also a fat sniveling cunt.

 

I agree with what you're saying. Truth be told, as a kid, I was a huge Zico guy. He was one of my footballing heroes. Maradona was not.

But what I'm getting at is the reason he doesn't get a seat at the GOAT table is because he doesn't have the hardware.

Guy's like Pele and Maradona do. Obviously.

 

Maradona or Messi?

 

For me? Maradona but I think some of that goes with my age and situation. I was in the stadium for the '86 World Cup final and spent that whole tournament in the host country of Mexico. I was fortunate in that my father was very good friends with someone who was very high up in the Mexican government at the time so our accommodations and access were ridiculous. I'll freely admit I'm certainly a bit bias.

 

From stories I have read, DiStefano may have been the greatest player. He was the key to Real Madrid superiority at the start of the Champions Cup. He was a player who could play multiple positions, usually in the same match.

 

Yeah, just meant personal opinion.

 

Napoli almost lost this one, 3-2 against a weak empoli team, Sarri is bad with defense, he can do a good job with the attack but horrible with his defensive scheme.