Yes. That is exactly my point. That is why I said "leave that to USSF"? They will pass some rules to try and further their agenda and MLS will follow them. But to say that the Quakes should voluntarily have rules that are more strict (i.e. the Chivas model) is not how I want it to be. I am curious as to what you thought I must not have known about the roles of USSF and CSA based on my mentioning their relationship to MLS, and that you thought your "you do know... right?" comment would clarify?
Great post. I also disagree with people who say that Vako isn't DP level. I watched almost every quakes game last year and saw a lot of DPs as well. I do think Vako is definitely good enough to be a DP. But the correct question would be, is he a good fit for the team like Quakes ? and when you ask that even I have some doubts and questions. Having seen last year I really think Vako wasn't what Quakes needed. Hell the first time I really saw him play his game was wen he and Hyka played next to each other so they both had someone to play off of, It's seems impossible for him to play his game while he has Godoy behind him and Wondo in front. The clash of styles between the three makes watching them together really awkward. Overall I think Vako did his job just fine but still got more hate than love from the fans, That's unfair to him, and it's also unfair to the fans who were kind of expecting something different from him. I guess that also has to do with the way he was marketed when he joined "A talent we can build a team around" is vague and not really accurate, it gives people false expectations. it would've made things easier if they just introduced him as "a creative attacker who will make quakes a lot more dangerous going forward" which is what he is and what he does in reality.
When I first heard that the Quakes were going to build around Vako I took that to mean that right now the team is built around Wondo and eventually they want to phase out Wondo and build around Vako. In my opinion I don't think that's ever going to happen - however I'm not sure that Jesse has given up on that plan yet probably because he has limited money he can spend. Vako might be the best player we can sign for under 1.5 million/year. For that price range I think he is a good value in MLS - but I don't think that price range works in MLS as a 'centerpiece' type player. Here's all the players in that price range (note: I believe Zlatan and Matinez are getting big pay raises this year): 27 TOR M Victor Vazquez : 1,500,000.00 28 LA F Zlatan Ibrahimovic : 1,500,000.00 29 SJ M Valeri "Vako" Qazaishvili: 1,454,042.38 30 ATL M Ezequiel Barco : 1,425,000.00 31 ATL F Josef Martinez : 1,387,318.00 32 ORL F Dom Dwyer : 1,383,333.38 33 POR M Sebastian Blanco : 1,375,008.00 34 NE D Michael Mancienne : 1,370,268.00 35 KC M Johnny Russell : 1,331,578.88 36 CHI M Aleksandar Katai : 1,320,333.38 37 TOR M Ager Aketxe Barrutia : 1,295,000.00 38 PHI M Alejandro Bedoya : 1,266,250.00 39 PHI F-M David Accam : 1,250,000.00 40 MTL D Rod Fanni : 1,225,000.00 41 LAFC M Andre Horta : 1,198,000.00 42 SEA M Osvaldo Alonso : 1,141,667.00 43 ORL M Sacha Kljestan : 1,100,000.00 44 CLB M Federico Higuain : 1,100,000.00 45 SEA M Victor Rodriguez : 1,087,500.00 46 LAFC F Diego Rossi : 1,052,000.12 47 RSL M Damir Kreilach : 1,013,333.31 48 KC F Krisztian Nemeth : 1,007,666.69 49 VAN F Kei Kamara : 1,000,000.00 50 LA D Jorgen Skjelvik : 1,000,000.00
Xman, I appreciate you passion, and kids in cages and Laura Ingraham are definitely things to get really angry about, and then channel that anger into action. And I appreciate that most of your posts are really intelligent, and you often include links to cogent analysis and or relevant articles. However, getting nasty with fellow Quakesfans is a bit much. Sure, some of the posts here were absurdly wrong, and we could even go so far as to say that some of them represent a Libertarian (completely out of touch with reality) view of the world. However, we're all Quakesfan and we should all be nice to each other. (And yeah, that's rich coming from me. Some of the Ultras are really pissed at me, and I don't blame them, but that's another story.) In any case, posting foolishness about OUR team (yours, mine, and everyone's) does not rise to the level of creeping fascism within the body politic. And I don't think that anyone here has racist intent talking about foreigners. It is a reality of our league that there are limits on the number of "foreign" players allowed on a squad, and of course Federal Green Card laws apply, as they should. But there's also the issue of developing players for the US National team. I still think that we can develop quality players for the US Nats, and that's not racist on my part. Bring the passion, try not to bitch out fellow posters. (And yeah, I get tense with other posters here too from time to time.) OK, let's carry on. Go Quakes!! Go Quakesfans!! - Mark
Originally, the formation of MLS was very much tied to developing USMNT. For 1994, FIFA tied the WC to having a professional league in the US. We put money ($300?) in 1994 as a deposit for a team in San Jose. Much of the talk of the fans at the time was having a league to help develop US players. While I'm not a big fan of setting limits, I also don't want to go back to the days of NASL when they were only a couple of US players on the field in most games. Each club has a development academy which is very much tied to developing US players. In the long run, it's a good thing. The make money selling them to UEFA leagues and US player pool gets bigger. Win-Win!
The thing is, we need a player like Kljestan or Higuain, but instead, we got Vako. Vako is pretty good, but he's more like Albert Elis than Kljestan or Higuain or Feilhaber or Bradley or Beckerman. We need a guy who can dominate in the center of the pitch, but we spend our DP ducats out wide, and go with two "holding midfielders" which is bogus. We aren't going to improve playing an empty bucket we need a central attacking player. BUT, we've thrown away every central attacking player we've ever signed. We're stupid, we're incompetent, we play like neanderthals (and they may have been more creative), and then we wonder why we can't win. It's freaking maddening. OK, time for more music and whiskey. Go Quakes!! - Mark
I understand all of that. But if you follow that logic then a player like Meram, who is US born and was US eligible (of course) but chose to represent Iraq, should count as an international since he isn't helping the goal of developing the USMNT? The historical ties of MLS to national team development (US or Canada) are just historical curiosities. Actual soccer, club soccer, gets played every year for the fans of the clubs. National teams provide a low-quality, high-emotion product to watch every four years. I want my yearly Quakes dollars maximized, USMNT can look after itself and to the extent the terribly-run USSF wants to meddle, we should try not to let it. For those who care about the USMNT as much as or more than the Quakes, you'll disagree.
I repped this post because it's very insightful. Vako is very talented, but he did not mesh well with his teammates last season. Having watched Nick Lima last play for the USMNT with a different coach and philosophy, I'm interested to see if Almeyda can devise a scheme to maximize not only Lima's talents, but Vako's and others'.
You may be correct that ties are historic and evolving. I will vote with my wallet and stop going to MLS games where only a few US players are playing. I disagree that National team games are low quality and only viewed every four years, but will agree that SUM/USMNT relationship is not healthy from a financial aspect.
I agree with your point, I still think Vako is good value. I also think if we spend just a little more in the 1.5-2.5 million range we could find such a center piece. At that range you get the likes of last year's assist king Borek Dockal, Almiron, Valeri, Lodeiro, Moralez, Quintero, Felipe Gutierrez. Here's a list of all the players(sorry its unformatted): Tim Howard Colorado Rapids GK $2,000,000.00 $2,475,000.00 Diego Valeri Portland Timbers M $2,320,000.00 $2,380,000.00 Nicolas Lodeiro Seattle Sounders FC M $1,800,000.00 $2,302,500.00 Miguel Almiron Atlanta United M $1,912,500.00 $2,297,000.00 Yura Movsisyan Chicago Fire F $1,850,000.00 $2,073,750.00 Raul Ruidiaz Seattle Sounders FC F $2,000,004.00 $2,000,004.00 Maxi Moralez New York City FC M $2,000,000.04 $2,000,000.04 Jonathan dos Santos LA Galaxy M $2,000,000.04 $2,000,000.04 Fanendo Adi FC Cincinnati F $1,275,000.00 $1,933,333.33 Nemanja Nikolic Chicago Fire F $1,700,000.04 $1,906,333.37 Romain Alessandrini LA Galaxy M $1,539,996.00 $1,869,996.00 Borek Dockal Philadelphia Union M $1,714,285.68 $1,714,285.68 Shkelzen Gashi Colorado Rapids F $1,575,000.00 $1,668,750.00 Clint Dempsey Retired F $1,100,000.04 $1,650,000.04 Darwin Quintero Minnesota United F $1,650,000.00 $1,650,000.00 Felipe Gutierrez Sporting Kansas City M $1,599,999.96 $1,649,999.96 Bradley Wright-Phillips New York Red Bulls F $1,500,000.00 $1,635,000.00
Oof. Do you watch any high-level club soccer (i.e. not MLS)? The quality drop from EPL, La Liga, and BL to England, Spain, and Germany national team play is huge. The Argentine players in the Euro leagues are so good, for Argentina it is just a boring muddle. For USMNT it is only a horizontal move because the players get better (because they aren't all MLS players) but the cohesion gets worse. USMNT versus Panama last night was so. very. bad. Missed pass, missed pass, missed pass, awkward run, phantom foul, missed foul, repeat. And I don't think I need to make an argument about CONCACAF in general. The soccer is terrible. The teams are all worse than the sum of their parts. I suppose you are right they are not watched every four years by the dedicated fans, but really most people in the US don't watch the Hex. So maybe I meant "every 8 years" this double cycle? ;-)
I never look at the roster to determine what the ethnic, racial or citizenship composition of my Club is. (Although, admittedly, I do find the intercontinental conundrum of Georgia fascinating.) I cannot imagine saying to myself, there are no Italians on the Quakes, so I'm not watching. Even falvo doesn't do that!
Back to Vako. Yeah, that goal he scored for Georgia last year sucked. No quality there! No talking about friendly's, but competitive national games. My comment was saying they are low quality. You can pick and choose national team just like club teams. Yes, I have watched plenty of EPL, La Liga, Seria A, etc. Outside of the top 4-6 teams in each league, I have seen a lot of crap soccer over the last 25-30 years.
I try not to think in terms of how much player X or player Y gets when I watch them. The more critical piece for me is, is player X or player Y good, are they working hard, are they working hard for their teammates. In other words are they good, are they contributing, do I believe they are potentially dangerous when they have the ball and we are attacking. And by that criteria, Vako is clearly the top of the field for the Quakes. Now I get that some want to manage the roster, the salary cap and all that, and I don't believe that anyone on this board has the insight to know all of the things that Leitch and Jesse know, so I kind of have to go on faith on that front. And I would love to have an owner who was willing to go toe-to-toe with the Filth or AFC, and we don't. So given what we have, we have to be thankful of Vako, and Hoesen and Wondo and Lima and I wish I could type four more names here and I really can't right now. I used to love to see Hyka come off the bench because he has the capability of being unpredictable and dangerous. I am hoping some of the new guys can bring that, and I just don't know. And can we stop bashing Vako? He is definitely not the biggest problem we have.
I think I misread your post. I thought you were saying that USSF and MLS shouldn't favor US nationals, and I see now you were saying that only MLS shouldn't. Which I agree with, I would never want any team in MLS to adopt the Chivas model. The entity responsible for the national team is the national federation. But it is still perfectly legit for USSF to force some amount of favoritism to US players and every federation does it.
I agree when you watch them. I don't tend to forgive mistakes as "due to salary" although I do sometimes for age. But you have to look at that salary part for the on-paper analysis of both roster construction in salary capped league and for stats. He isn't. But he has so much potential and yet with the glaring, IMO, problem of not being able to either sense where is teammates are or even pick his head up when he has time and look for them. Part of it could be teammates are vocal enough. But when the wide open player in front of goal gets ignored, the should-have-been passer is going to get the blame. When you have as much potential as Vako, it can lead to frustration.
All of this Vako blaming is interesting...so I did some stats pull. I looked at the last place winners of the last 5 years (2014-2018) and see how their "star"/best players did, and see how Vako stacks up. Here it is: 2014 Montreal (28 pts) - Marco Di Vaio ($2.6M) = 9 goals, 4 assists SJ (30 pts) - Chris Wondo, ($600k) = 14 Goals, 4 assists 2015 - Chicago Fire (30 pts) - Shaun Maloney ($1.6M) = 3 goals, 2 assists - Gilberto ($1.1M) = 5 goals, 2 assists - Kennedy Igboananike ($800k) = 7 goals, 3 assists - David Accam ($650k) = 10 Goals, 2 assists 2016 - Chicago Fire (31 pts) - David Accam ($700k) = 9 goals, 5 assists 2017 LAG (30 pts) - GDS ($5.5M) = 6 goals, 3 assists - Romain Alessandrini ($2M) = 13 goals, 12 assists DCU (30 pts) - Luciano Acosta ($600k) = 5 goals, 5 assists 2018 SJ (21 pts) - Vako ($1.5M) = 10 goals, 5 assists - Wondo ($800k) = 10 goals, 5 assists - Hoesen ($500k) = 12 goals, 4 assists Orlando (28 pts) - Dom Dwyer ($1.4M) = 13 goals, 0 assists - Sacha ($1.1M) = 6 goals, 6 assists - Yoshimar Yotun ($600k) = 4 goals, 10 assists As you can see, Vako does very well. He is beat out only by Hoesen in 2018, Allesandrini in 2017, and Chris Wondo in 2014 (we were 2nd from the bottom that year, only by 2 pts). Hoesen beats him by 2 goals but has 1 less assist, so 1 point more. Wondo beat him by 4 goals but has 1 less assist, so 3 points more. Allesandrini beat Vako by 3 goals and 7 assists, for a monstrous 10 more points! But Allesandrini also makes $2M Of the players making $1-1.5M, Vako has the best stats, beating Dom Dwyer, Sacha, Gilberto, and Maloney. So, of the wooden spoon and near-wooden spoon teams, Vako did very well, and his stat line reflects the putridness of this team more so than anything.
Yeah, Vako, Danny, and Wondo are not our problem in terms of money or production. Bad Godoy, Eriksson, and "the whole way the defense was arranged and manned" were our problem. Hopefully Almeyda and his assistants know how to design a defense that uses the players they have.
Just being able to stabilize the defense will lead to at least a +12 point difference. That is why I'm mostly looking forward to what the new Brazilian DM signing can bring because he will have to be the one plugging the holes for Godoy and providing defensive structure in front of the back line.
An extra dozen points over the course of the season will still see the Quakes below the point-per-game line, which in itself is unacceptably low.
I for one, am hoping that we don't see Godoy in the starting 11, I'd rather see Yueill or TT there, frankly.
Good Godoy can boss the midfield. Bad Godoy makes it hard to decide whether his impeding red card is good or bad for the team. Let's hope that the staff can unlock the Good Godoy.