The Official Seleção History thread

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Mengão86, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And Kaka will be 36 by WC'18!! My favorite goal from him came in a friendly vs Argentina after WC'06 when he ran past damn near the entire Argentine team to score the 3rd goal in a 3-0 win!!! Thanks again Ricky!!!
     
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  2. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007

     
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  3. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    IMO, Kaka is one of the many great players we had on the NT but he doesn’t qualify as a legend. No Copa America appearances and didn’t have that World Cup performance. Overall, I thought he was a good performer for us and one of my favorite players to watch.
     
  4. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    [​IMG]

    I want to wish a Happy 52nd Birthday to Romario da Souza Faria!!! Obrigado for all the great goals and memories!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  5. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    One of the greatest of all time. Great human being in and out of the field. And My wife's favorite. Romario remains in my heart forever.
     
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  6. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Romário was one of those rare players who trash-talked and who consistently backed it up. He wasn't infallible and he certainly didn't make his teams invincible, but he is indubitably the most emblematic and important Brazilian player of the post-Tele Santana generation and the "elder statesmen" of the generation which gave us Ronaldo, Rivaldo, and later, Ronaldinho Gaúcho and Kaká.

    I only wonder - had he not injured himself in 1998 and likewise remained in the best possible physical shape, would Brazil have won the World Cup with him up front with Ronaldo, despite our defense's problems?

    And if Brazil had somehow defeated France with a healthy Ronaldo and a fit Romário, how would that have affected Brazil for 2002 and subsequent World Cups? After all, there would have been less impetus for Scolari to take over, and we may have had an altogether different team in Korea/Japan.

    Speculation, what ifs. Too bad Romário didn't win a second World Cup title. He wanted to be part of the Penta not only because he regretted trash-talking Scolari, but because if he won a second one, he'd tie Garrincha and be literally second only to Pelé.
     
  7. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And Juninho Paulista and Djalminha should've been on the WC'98 team as well!!
     
  8. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Bebeto should not have gone to WC98

    Edmundo should have played all matches alongside Ronaldo!
     
  9. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Zagalo had a soft spot for Bebeto and remember at the time it wasn't even clear if Edmundo would be on the team!! Edmundo walked out of Fiorentina in Italy and Zagalo told him if he didn't go back he would leave him off the Brazil team!! Damn that Fiorentina team brings back memories of Batistuta, Rui Costa, Luis Olivieria(the Brazilian who played for Belgium)!!
     
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  10. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #210 greatstriker11, Feb 1, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
    True.

    Classic example of Zagalo prioritising ethics over talent. I would still take Edmundo 98 form over Bebeto 98 form.

    In 1992, Parreira suspended Romario for ethics only to call him when Brazil was in trouble for vs Uruguay qualifying match. Romario with all his antics proved to be the main key for that qualifying match win and the subsequent WC94 title. Having left Romario out for all of the qualifying matches bar the last one vs Uruguay was a mistake and a waist of opportunity for both the player to score more goals and for Selecao to save themselves for the loss vs Bolivia and the scandal that followed of missing out qualifying for a WC for the first time in their history. Prioritising ethics over talent can sometimes be counter-productive


    I think if Edmundo had gone to WC98 as a starter in all matches allongside Ronaldo as a partner, perhaps the young Ronaldo might have had more confidence in the final match. And sure Edmundo if given more play time might have helped a bit to prevent WC98 final match disaster.

    But this is of course.......a what IF argument.

    what IF
     
  11. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Who thinks Neymar 2010 form (if called up as a starter) would have made a difference to Brazil's terrible outcome at WC10?
     
  12. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Can anyone mention names of prolific players who were left out of Selecao at the WC's whom if called up as starting line-up could have given Brazil better results?

    How many times can we give historic Selecao's managers the blame for the NT losses due to not having called up the right players?

    I'd like to see mentioning of any historic WC or Copa where such a case was due to a managers decision to call up the wrong player or left out potential players.
     
  13. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't know, was never convinced Edmundo was a Selecao player.
     
  14. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Don't think so it would have made a difference.
     
  15. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Definitely Neymar would have made a huge difference in 2014 disaster.
     
  16. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    due to lack of productivity or lack of character?
     
  17. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    2010?
     
  18. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    No difference in 2010, Neymar was not ready as we saw how raw his game was in 2011 Copa America. Elano injury was an underrated difference in the outcome of that tournament. So I think at the time a player like Carlos Eduardo, Hernanes or maybe even the 2010 version of Ganso might have made a difference.
     
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  19. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    1998 WC, defense was the issue. Mauro Silva could of help that problem with any decent centerback from that era to replace Baiano.

    2006 WC, more tactical than player personal.


    2014, Robinho should of been called. Having two of the same type of striker in Fred and Jo made no sense. Miranda also in hindsight over Henrique.
     
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  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Edmundo was in the World Cup as a back-up for Ronaldo. He scored 29 goals in the previous year's Brazilian premiership and did score 2 goals for Brazil in the 1997 Copa América. But I am not sure he would have made that much of a difference.
     
  21. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It's a bit tough thinking all the way back. In 98 the problem was the midfield IMO. Defense not great either, but a good midfield can mask a not so great defense. Mauro Silva could have helped. Don't remember what shape he was in though.

    I disagree a bit about 2006. It was a player problem too. Ronaldo was fat. Ronaldinho was giving passes to a speedy Eto'o at Barca ... then he had to deal with an out of shape Ronaldo. Adriano was off form too. Parreira should have still made changes, but no way Ronaldo was getting benched.

    2014 definitely Miranda. And yeah, Robinho over Bernard.
     
  22. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    #222 Kaka10725, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    1998, the midfield was an issue too I agree, Dunga being older didn’t help. We struggle to contain anybody. Another name that I’m thinking that could help but I don’t know how his form was back then was Flavio Conceicao, I remember him being a routine callup back in those days.

    2006 what I meant was there wasn’t a player that was snubbed that would of made a difference. I agree, Ronaldo should of been benched. I think the lineup we played against France should of been experimented with more prior to the tournament.
     
  23. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yep ... Flavio Conceicao and Juninho Paulista were sour about not getting call ups.

    Flavio could hit FKs too. He was a pretty solid player.
     
  24. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    In 2006, a difference could have been noticed by playing Cicinho instead of Cafu and Robinho instead of someone up front. Ronaldo was slow in the first two matches but was still better than Ronaldinho and the others iirc. Robinho would have been the difference maker. He was way too fast and tricky for any defender those days. Also, the line up against France was relatively defensive (suggesting that Brazil had some sort of a fear against France, even though they did not deserve it up until that point in the tournament). In 1998, iirc, Fla Conceicao was injured and hence not called for the world cup. He was preferred over Cesar Sampaio.
     
  25. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    The formation against France wasn’t too defensive because neither Ze Roberto or Juninho was true defensive players. I was never a fan of the 4-2-2-2. It was unbalanced, lack width but more so because of the declining play of Cafu and Roberto Carlos. It took Ronaldinho and Kaka further away from goal and both at club level played there best futbol closer to goal. The first thing CAP should of done in hindsight was build a system around Ronaldinho and put him in his best position to succeed maybe even copy the Barca 4-3-3 system at the time and put the required pieces around him.
     

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