The Official Korea NT Thread Part 5 [R]

Discussion in 'Korea' started by Seol Korea, Dec 8, 2011.

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  1. Mudang

    Mudang Member+

    Feb 16, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Are you like this in real life?

    Honestly, it gets tiring after a while with you and Hodori acting ridiculously pretentious.
     
  2. jsk14

    jsk14 Member+

    Mar 2, 2010
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    goood points.

    Sky's point orginally was that its bad for him to say he will step down. personally i would rather he get through qualifying before deciding something like that.

    as far as KFA's network and "corruption" i dont see that changing or being solved anytime soon.
     
  3. K:thecore

    K:thecore Member+

    May 20, 2002
    Honolulu
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    well you never know what might happen either in the short-term. I try not to expect much and adhere to things others think are written in stone.
     
  4. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    Okay. Feel better.
     
  5. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    The odds aren't great, but it all depends on who wins the KFA election later this year.
     
  6. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    This is purely speculation on my part, but the KFA will try to do whatever it takes to hold on to him.
     
  7. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
  8. zdrav

    zdrav Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    I don't think we can blame Cho Kwang Rae for having been dealt a bad hand with the KNT being in transition and all. We have quite a bit of good players in the U22ish range, but few good players in their mid-20s beside PJY. Or maybe that's because CKR ignored all those players and none of them came to our attention.

    I do think we can blame CKR for very bad man management. Far too many players were complaining as if representing Korea was an annoyance and obligation, and sometimes, it looked like the players weren't motivated on the field.
     
  9. Koreano

    Koreano Member

    Jul 5, 2005
    Club:
    Seongnam Ilhwa
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    We all know deep inside that CKH will stay till 2014. That's because the KFA will have their own "legitimate" reasons to keep him by then. All this talk by CKH now sounds PR to me. This is done too keep the 여론 and media to stop talking about the mess that has occurred to both parties. (Jeonbuk and KFA)
     
  10. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    it's all about the players. Could a more organized KFA improve things? Perhaps. But there are tons of great players from countries with virtually no infrastructure, no local league of any merit, with terrible nt managers.

    And we're doing better than the US IMO despite less resources, language barrier, etc
     
  11. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    It's not all about the players, because poor infrastructure isn't capable of producing players that are good enough to make it all about them. Think of countries that would make your top ten footballing countries list and give me one with poor infrastructure that could legitimately contend for the World Cup. There's none.

    The only reason Africa has been able to produce word class players is because they outsource most, if not all of their best players to Europe when they're young enough to still develop in a systematized infrastructure. Even then, because most African players go to Europe late in their teens at the earliest, they still rely more on pure athleticism and physicality and less on football intelligence which is ultimately why they'll always be behind Europe and South America.

    I would agree that we've done better than the US, although it's not by much, but that's only because the American approach to developing football is retarded (literally and figuratively).
     
  12. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I think we're agreeing on the salient points. I guess my point is that some of our problems are structural (KFA, popularity of football in korea, ability to pay younger talent, youth systems) that will take a long a** time to fix if ever, vs current (CKR sucking, players choosing bad clubs, cultural adjustment to european life, player selection) which can be fixed relatively quickly.
     
  13. zdrav

    zdrav Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    Most of the good African players have been brought up in European systems, right? Have there been many quality African players who were brought up through an African league?
     
  14. jolim24601

    jolim24601 Member

    Nov 6, 2010
    east coast
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Why not just blame the entire culture of Korea.
     
  15. Chingoo

    Chingoo Member+

    Feb 10, 2010
    2 yr service is sort of a big thing too imo
     
  16. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    Only one I can think of off the top of my head is Kolo Toure. I think he went straight to Arsenal from Cote d'Ivoire when he was 21, and as you know, he's a player with a lot of limitations.
     
  17. Mudang

    Mudang Member+

    Feb 16, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    What about his bro.
     
  18. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    As far as I know, Yaya started playing in Europe when he was still a teenager which explains why he's far more complete than his brother. I actually think he's one of few African players whose football intelligence is as impressive as European and South American players.
     
  19. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I am no historian or frankly care about too much of this but a quick look on wikipedia for some random players...

    Drogba.. did move to France but did not play in any "program"
    Essien didn't move to Europe until he was 18
    Weah didn't move until he was 22

    I didn't even start on Latin America where a number of players come out of poverty not some Ajax school.
     
  20. Mudang

    Mudang Member+

    Feb 16, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I actually remember saying this during pickup football during my early undergraduate years and was accused of being racist lol.
     
  21. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    Drogba was given plenty of time to develop in the French lower divisions and so did Essien. Both of them, as I've mentioned, have now become limited players because they relied heavily on their athleticism and physicality when they were at their peak which is typical of African players who've played football in their early teens (when a player's football brain is supposed to develop) where proper training doesn't exist. We can't follow this route, because our players don't have the freak of nature attributes like Africans do.

    South America has a different culture altogether. Poverty doesn't prevent them from producing quality players.
     
  22. zdrav

    zdrav Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    I think anytime you insinuate (either on purpose or by mistake) some kind of link between people of African heritage and low intelligence, you deserve to be accused of racism. That crap's been around for way too long to plead ignorance on the matter. There are better ways to say the same thing.
     
  23. Chingoo

    Chingoo Member+

    Feb 10, 2010
    that's an opinion. That's not ignorance or racism wtf?... You can not accuse others you don't agree with as being ignorant. What is there not to know? It's very easy to call someone ignorant, especially if you consider yourself right. It's way more complicated to learn from someone else and decide that their views are valid and that those dirty ass glasses you're wearing really do obscure reality..
     
  24. zdrav

    zdrav Member+

    Sep 9, 2009
    My point wasn't that it's wrong to believe that African players rely too much on strength and speed. Certain footballing cultures cultivate certain types of players. After all, a lot of people accuse English football of prizing brute strength too much, and that's clearly not a racist charge.

    My point was that going around saying that Africans lack "intelligence" (albeit of the footballing sort) was rightfully inviting all sorts of accusations of racism.
     
  25. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    First you're selling our guys athleticism short. Yes, we're not likely to produce NBA stars but a lot of our guys are built for soccer.

    Second, you're missing the point. The whole question that you proposed was that the KFA was preventing us from exiting WC underdog status. I say that we just need players and that having an incompetent FA is no inhibitor of creating world class players. There are tons of world class players who weren't part of Ajax or La Masia level youth systems.

    If even some things lineup for korean football without further intervention and just get two to three stars to fully light up as they are right now, whether it be LCY moving onto to become a regular at a top 4 club, SHM panning out as a top strikers, etc. you'd find in the short run that we'd be "favored" by popular media because we'd have recognizable stars. The world's popular opinion has finite resources and have a hard enough time keeping track of what goes on in the Eredivisie let alone the k-league.

    Second it would cascade as more of young guys get snatched up earlier before the KFA could even have an impact, such as moving to a more established youth system in their teens such as the influence that Kagawa had in promoting Japanese players in Germany (see Usami in Bayern Munich).

    Would having an more organized system help identify talent and improve the odds of us improving faster? Probably but its doing s*** for China and I think we have enough forward momentum that we're only a break or two away from a flood of korean talent getting chances that we can currently only dream of.
     

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