The Official Jesse Fioranelli thread

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Godoy was a mid-season addition. He added a lot to the team his first year
     
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  2. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that i see the names -- Why is it that mid-season additions so often seem to peter out about halfway into the next season? I.e., after playing for the quakes for 1 full year
     
  3. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Seventeen consecutive years (and counting) without qualifying for the playoffs, yet in the parking lot 17 hours before kickoff. If you enjoyed the Three Stooges, you'll want to watch the whole documentary. :)

    http://www.barstoolsports.com/bills...esktop&utm_source=featured&utm_medium=primary
     
  4. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Probably because Kinnear and the staff coach them into mediocrity. He's the constant in the equation there.
     
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  5. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Kinnear is the reason Huckerby's production fell off in the latter stages of 2009? He was coaching in Houston at the time.
     
  6. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OMG it's the same freaking COACHING TREE Yallop>Watson>Kinnear. They all coach the same way with the same philosophy. Play not to lose.
     
  7. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That may be true, but the assertion that Kinnear is "the constant in the equation" is undeniably false. Having "the same philosophy" does not make Stalin responsible for Mao's crimes during the Cultural Revolution, for example, even though the two monsters drank from the same ideological fountain. Do I need to give other examples to allow you to distinguish fact from fiction?
     
  8. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It does actually. Not directly but the sphere of influence is established.
     
  9. staudio

    staudio Member+

    Mar 7, 2008
    Marin
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    posted my thoughts in a different thread but should of been in this one...

    renewal for season tickets is July 7th (i think)....

    Veko won't make an appearance until mid July.......maybe in the friendly against Frankfurt on the 14th....and a mls game on the 19th in NY against the RB's.....

    how much do I (and my money) trust Jesse to get this train back on the track......?

    going have to ponder this for the next few days.....
     
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  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    It seemed to me that Jesse relied on a few translation errors to hide inconsistencies in some of his statements.

    I've also been intrigued by the fact that Chris Leitch didn't seem all that upset that he was passed over for GM. He went out and got his FFF coaching license AND he also has a UEFA A coaching license. How many coaches in MLS have UEFA A or UEFA Pro licenses? Either he has a crystal ball or he was lucky for this situation.
     
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  13. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Given the fact it's all but certain that the entire Watson promotion/firing was obviously designed by Doyle to keep the seat warm for Dominic, I'm somewhat surprised by all the teeth-gnashing and garment rending regarding the supposed unfair treatment in this firing. It's professional sports, and everybody in that game knows the score. The pity is wasted...
     
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  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where did you find this info that Leitch has a UEFA license at all? I don't think you can get into the UEFA coaching courses unless you are a member of UEFA. I am pretty sure that's why MLS coaches ended up taking the French coaching curriculum, because that was the closest they could get to a UEFA license.

    I looked into this when I was reviewing the soccer movie "Trainer".
     
  15. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mistake maybe? Covelo has one.

    https://www.sjearthquakes.com/post/...oach-dominic-kinnear-and-assistant-coach-john

     
  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #541 xbhaskarx, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
    What exactly do you mean by "a member of UEFA"? MLS coaches take the French training because MLS has a partnership with them.

    Jesse Marsch (American, MLS coach, not "a member of UEFA" whatever that means) is certainly eligible to take classes towards his UEFA license, we know because he's currently going through the process... why would Chris Leitch be any different from Marsch?

    mlssoccer.com:

    With mere minutes left in last week’s 2-0 victory over the Philadelphia Union, Marsch ran off the field before the final whistle to make his way to the airport. He was on a tight schedule, en route to a flight to Poland to take the next round of classes for his UEFA license.
    As to whether Leitch actually has a UEFA license (as opposed to whether he *can* have one), there's this tidbit:
    Jesse Marsch enrolled in UEFA Pro Licence course

    Marsch told SRD there were "not a lot of head coaches" on his course, and that he thought he was the only (and first) MLS head coach to have enrolled in the course.
    Of course, that's only speculation by Marsch, and in any case Leitch wasn't a head coach in MLS at that time!

    Yeah that was a really interesting movie... Hey if this Leitch thing doesn't work out, maybe Fioranelli should consider hiring Frank Schmidt!
     
  17. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A member of UEFA meaning that you belong to a country federation that is a member of UEFA. I think this is what I saw when I read up on the UEFA, FA, French and German coaching certifications. It's been awhile and I don't have my notes on my iPhone.

    Maybe Jesse marsch gets in because he is with Red Bull. However that article did not actually say he was getting a license, it just said he was maybe attending a course.
     
  18. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    -That reasoning (Red Bull) makes absolutely no sense. Just stop.
    [​IMG]
    -Marsch is absolutely getting his UEFA license. That's what "for his UEFA license" means.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. Please don't spread bad information.
     
  19. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know of what I speak. This is from the UEFA Coaching Convention 2015 Manual:

    Article 14 – Admission criteria for all UEFA coaching diploma courses
    1. UEFA coaching diploma courses organised by a convention party are open to any candidates with permanent residency on the territory of this convention party.

    2. It is also possible for candidates not residing on the territory of the convention party organising a course to take part in the course, provided that:
      a) they speak the official language of the convention party organising the course (sufficient written and oral skills);
    When I did the research last year, I found that the FA did not generally accept foreigners, and neither do the Germans. Therefore, it appeared that USSoccer worked with the French to develop a pro level coaching course in the USA. Otherwise, it is extremely hard for an American to coach in Europe because he/she doesn't have the required certifications.
     
  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you even read what you pasted? And do you have any understanding of it?

    Regarding Article 14 Section 1: Marsch / Leitch BOTH do not meet the "permanent residency on the territory" criteria as they both live in the US...
    But note there is no clause that states: "An exception is made if the candidate coaches a team on another continent but that team is owned by an international conglomerate that also owns teams on this continent, however this exception doesn't apply if the candidate's team is owned by a group that merely has a minority stake in a team on this continent."
    That's the level of hair-splitting that would be required for your absurd speculation that Leitch doesn't get in (Quakes ownership have a minority stake in Celtic) but Marsch does "because he is with Red Bull" to make any sense.

    Regarding Article 14 Section 2: Speaking the official language of the convention party organizing the course (sufficient writing and oral skills)" is probably what would qualify BOTH Marsch and Leitch... I'm guessing they both read/speak the major UEFA language known as "English" at an adequate level to fulfill that requirement. The semicolon at the end of "a)" suggests that there are other exceptions, so they may qualify under those as well.


    So to recap, no it's not limited only to candidates that "belong to a country federation that is a member of UEFA" (see exception under Section 2), no Marsch didn't get in "because he's with Red Bull", and Marsch is absolutely going for a UEFA License and not just "attending a course".
     
  21. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Jesse Marsch is taking a UEFA Pro license, he is taking it through the auspices of the German federation. I interpret the situation to be that Red Bull has gotten Jesse into the class because he speaks sufficient German. It does say in the manual that "permanent residency" is generally required. I was thinking that coaching license membership in a federation required residency, but perhaps not, depending on the country.

    FYI, the film Trainer mentions that sometimes coaches drop in on a class but are not enrolled in the certification process. Certification is run like a graduate school curriculum and takes 360 hours over one year just for the Pro license. Curriculum includes periodic on-site assessments by the instructors.

    There are coaches like Guillermo Schelotto, who ended up not being able to coach in Italy because he didn't have the UEFA license.
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #547 xbhaskarx, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
    [​IMG]

    What do you mean "but perhaps not", the second part of the very rule you posted states that permanent residency is not necessarily a requirement. Any American coach is going to meet the second part as they can read/write/speak English. You do know that English is one of the official languages of the EU, right? A quick Google search indicates that the three official languages of UEFA are English, German, and French. English is actually originally from Europe, believe it or not. They're quite familiar with it over there.

    And what do you mean "depending on the country", is the rule you posted specific to one country or is it for all of UEFA?

    (What are you even saying here, are you still arguing that Marsch isn't in the process of getting his UEFA coaching license, despite all the evidence that he is?)

    Yes, well we know GBS wasn't leaving Lanus games to fly to Europe for UEFA courses, however we do know Jesse Marsch did that (and do you really think he would do so if it was just to take a course and not to get his license?). There is no evidence that GBS tried to get his UEFA license but couldn't get one, there is only evidence that he doesn't have one.

    GBS: 1. GBS was coaching Lanus in South America, making no attempt to get a UEFA license. 2. GBS was offered the Palermo coaching job in Italy and took it. 3. It turned out he couldn't coach in Italy because he didn't have his UEFA license and that was a requirement. UEFA refused to just hand him the badge without him going through the process, so he and Palermo parted ways. 4. GBS went back to Argentina to coach Boca Juniors instead.
     
  23. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a) they speak the official language of the convention party organising the course​

    This is the last I am going to say on this topic. English is NOT the official language of Germany. The German federation teaches its coaching courses in German.

    Watch the movie Trainer. It's on Netflix and is a great movie.

    I am sure you cannot just Willy-nilly join another country's federation. You can't even really do that here in the USA, where You have to submit SSN and have background check etc. Otherwise there would be 10,000 residents of China trying to get a UEFA license because they speak German or English.

    There are reasons that American coaches aren't flocking to Europe for licenses, and it is because it is a closed system with a lot of protections. Here's another example - the many UEFA licensed coaches in Iceland all get trained in England, because their countries have an arrangement.
     
  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #550 xbhaskarx, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
    Who is saying anything about Germany besides you? I have already seen the movie Trainer, and already stated that I had just a few comments above yours, if you were paying attention. The movie takes place in Germany and is about German coaches coaching in Germany. But we're not talking about the movie Trainer.

    We're discussing Jesse Marsch trying to get his UEFA Pro License, and other non-European coaches possibly doing the same (GBS, Leitch). Where does Germany come into that??

    Hell, what you posted above is the "Admission criteria for all UEFA coaching diploma courses" from the "UEFA Coaching Convention 2015 Manual"...

    What do you mean "join" a "country's federation"? What does joining a country's federation (whatever that means) have to do with getting a UEFA Pro License?

    What do YOU think Article 14 Section 2 (a) above is stating?

    So 10,000 Chinese, and American coaches, would be flying off to Europe to take UEFA courses like Marsch is? Where would they get the time and resources to do that, and why would they believe the time/money investment to be worth it? Is all that's keeping 10,000 random Chinese people from coaching Manchester United and AC Milan that they don't have their UEFA license?

    You can speculate as to why more American coaches don't get UEFA licenses all you want. As for whether American coaches *could* go get their UEFA license, what about Article 14, Section 2 (a)?


    Again:

    1. Why would the official language of Germany be relevant?
    2. Why would the official languages of UEFA not be relevant?


    Regarding Marsch specifically:
    "en route to a flight to Poland to take the next round of classes for his UEFA license."
    Poland. UEFA license.
     

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