The Official David Bingham thread

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Fair enough. I think there was more than enough footage of Bingham over the course of his time in San Jose that there would be little, if anything to learn from watching him play at the end of 2017. I see where you're coming from and I'm sure you're right that it was used to lessen his bargaining power (though he had almost none anyway since he was still under contract and SJ had rights of first refusal), but the end result was about as good as he could have hoped for.

    Thankfully for him, there was a team desperate enough for a keeper to trade for him and pay probably more than he's worth to lock him up longer term. I don't think the Galaxy threw away tons of money or anything, but given how quickly Bingham went from probably top five in the league to very average, I wouldn't be surprised if Bingham's best years are already behind him.

    As for whether or not it's unethical, two things. First, there'd be no way to prove intent there. One could very genuinely argue that Tarbell deserved starts because Bingham had played well below expectations. Sure, you can point to the bad games that Tarbell had and say that Bingham should have had a chance to win his spot back, but you could then point to not messing with team chemistry on the verge of a playoff spot and this and that.

    Second, you can never trust a business entity to be ethical. They are not incentivized enough to behave ethically and the penalties for unethical behavior are so minor or nonexistent that it's not a deterrent (assuming they get caught in the first place, which they rarely do). This is why I said before that when it comes to the team or league dealing with players always assume the worst with regard to how the players are handled and hope that the reality is better than that.
     
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  2. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    So, as we speculated, Bingham refused a contract and they sat him because of it.

    I, for one, agree whole-heartedly with the concept of trying to maintain a strong cohesive group. Bingham said "I don't want to be a part of this group going forward". Quakes have every right to say "Ok, then. Have a seat. We'll play the guys that want to be here and be a part of this".

    Plus they wanted to give Tarbell experience, even if it meant jeopardizing last years results (which it didn't). So it was a smart move.
     
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  3. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    Put it this way. You are working on a major project for your company. One that will have a major impact. The team leader says "I'm leaving in 3 months". Do you leave him at the head of the project until he goes? No, you replace him as fast as you can.
     
  4. Tom Szabo

    Tom Szabo Member

    Dec 31, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think from Bingham's own words we can infer that the team didn't think he was worth the money he demanded. I also think they were already planning to offer JT a Homegrown contract, and furthermore I think they rate JT higher than Bingham.
     
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  5. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It makes sense when you consider that San Jose probably didn't expect a serious offer for Bingham from any other teams (not enough to make trading him worth it, anyway). With that expectation, they would want to keep Bingham from gaining leverage in negotiations. Keeping him off the field achieves that. Then, when push comes to shove and Bingham's contract expires, San Jose holds all the cards. They say "this is our offer" and if Bingham doesn't accept it, he's out of the league as I'm sure MLS would have upheld San Jose's offer as acceptable.

    The idea that you would want a player's value to rise only applies if you expect to trade that player from the very beginning. It doesn't appear that San Jose planned for Bingham to leave from the get go outside of him getting free agency eventually. It's pretty standard procedure with regard to player/team relationships, really.

    Bingham essentially got bailed out by the Galaxy (possibly due to Kinnear's influence) via a trade offer that challenged San Jose's position. Suddenly Bingham's value goes up because there is outside interest and the Quakes probably can't get away with whatever their initial offer was anymore.
     
  6. Tom Szabo

    Tom Szabo Member

    Dec 31, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Possible, but Bingham made it sound like the negotiation was final and Bingham was going to leave no matter what. Once he was out of contract, Bingham would have to go through the re-entry draft (if he chose to stay in MLS) where the Galaxy couldn't be assured of getting him, that is why they paid the GAM/TAM. So I don't think the Quakes were trying to get negotiating leverage to re-sign him, they basically were done with him as I do think they were already planning to offer JT a Homegrown contract at the end of season which sets up the positional competition between him and Tarbell. The fact Bingham still had some value to a team like the Galaxy was fortuitous but I also suspect the Quakes FO did gauge the interest of other teams and knew there was some out there.
     
  7. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    You can kind of see how this might have played out. Bings balked at a long term contract in the off-season, negotiations continued in some form during the season, but at some point Bings' form dropped, and now he's lost negotiation leverage a bit. So when he talks about them being "far apart" during the season, I can imagine that the Quakes were less excited about giving Bings a big contract money-wise at that point, and wouldn't budge over a certain amount. That's probably when Bings just said "forget it, I'm out". So basically his uneven if not poor form exacerbated the problem.
     
  8. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #1034 JazzyJ, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
    Besides the contract stuff, Bings also basically trashed the Quakes tactics in the "post-Bings" part of last season.

    “We tried to do what teams do in preseason — change our identity,” Bingham said of the midseason reset in 2017. A couple veteran guys said this is going to be as rough patch. They were right. You saw down the stretch run that everyone knew it wasn’t working and we had to go back to real Quakes soccer and try to lock down the back.”

    For one, although the Quakes had the horrible road losses, they actually wound up with I think the same or slightly better PPG under Leitch than they had under Dom (and a better win percentage). Except for one game they were generally very good at home.

    Two, if they decided "down the stretch run", and by extension in the playoffs, to go back to "locking down the back", how did they wind up losing 5-0 in the playoff game? I don't think it was entirely about the formation / tactics.

    Three, if "locking down the back" is "real Quakes soccer", I would be disappointed. "Locking down the back" is not what I'd like the club identity to be going forward. Sure a GK is going to want it to be “lock down the back” because it makes him look good. The fact of the matter is if you commit to more attack you are going to give up more goals. There is a trade-off.

    Also,

    "At the time, I was No. 2 in shutouts in the league when I stopped playing. I thought we were doing similar to the last two years. We were neutral or minus-one goal differential so we were still in every ballgame and fighting for our lives at that time"

    Um, "similar to the last two years" means missing out on the playoffs. Sure we tended to be in close games, but we also had a lot of ties when we should have had wins, and that does not get you into the playoffs.

    I agree that it was kind of crazy to try to change style of play that much in the middle of the season, but, heck, why not try something different, why not take some chances, and in the end we actually wound up with as good or better results in terms of points. Plus we wound up getting a lot of minutes to young players like Jackson, TT, and yes, Andrew Tarbell.

    Also, David is cherry-picking stats a bit here. He may have been 2nd in shutouts when he stopped playing, but he was essentially at the bottom in saves %. Tarbell was only very slightly better, but again, Bings is supposed to be the veteran better player, right?
     
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  9. NedZ

    NedZ Member+

    May 19, 2001
    Los Gatos
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Bingham's words also give me the impression of some clubhouse division. Sounds like there were some "veteran players" who may have been unhappy with Kinnear's dismissal, or who felt that Kinnear's style was "real Quakes soccer", that Bingham was aligned with them and that they may have been mutually supportive in their opinions. How well such a group could or would adapt to a new regime (maybe it took a team dinner to paper over problems, or maybe a change from a 3-5-2) may have some bearing . I'd assume that some veteran players have been through that before on other teams and some may adapt quicker than others on the team.
     
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  10. chris thebassplayer

    Feb 18, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I hate seeing him go to LA. We will definitely see his best effort every time we play them...that's a given and it sucks. Contrary to the prevailing opinion on this board, he isn't damaged goods. He's a solid keeper with a knack for making
    huge game changing saves.

    I agree with Tom though, the Quakes played hardball with Bings knowing they had JT, someone they think quite highly of, in their back pocket.

    I appreciate all he gave us and I can't begin to imagine how bad we would have been without him. He kept us in games we had no business being in. He played his ass off for the Quakes. To see it unravel the way it did...just feels awful.
     
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  11. alexiskool1991

    alexiskool1991 Member+

    May 9, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    If we were planning to trade him, I would think we'd play Bingham in what was at the time of him starting for us a lost cause. Why wouldn't we then make have him look good saving everything for a higher trading price.
     
  12. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I think we may be over-thinking it, trying to figure out how playing Bings (or not) would affect his trade value. At that point it was more about trying to see what we have with Tarbell so we can better plan for the next year, and not so much Bings trade calculus.
     
  13. Socarchist

    Socarchist Member+

    Feb 21, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Bingham was wildly inconsistent, on a downward trajectory, lost as many games from terrible errors as he saved ties or wins from good play, and is, by many accounts, a jerk, confirmed by this latest Mercury News article.

    Won't miss him. I expect more of the same from him in LA. If he doesn't lose the prima donna attitude, he'll see the bench and then lower division soccer sooner rather than later. On the bright side, his presence in the LAG locker room might add to any division or strife there, which will help out their opponents.

    The team played hard ball. Boo f'in hoo. This is professional sports, not a group hug.
     
  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1040 mjlee22, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
    both Bingham and Hamid were on the last year of their contracts. And Hamid was first benched on the night that they knew a European scout had arranged to be there.

    Arsene Wenger benched Alexi Sanchez last year when Sanchez was talking about going to another team. Diego Costa also had his benching issues. It is just a weird way of handling players.

    - - - - -
    edit: oops, just saw those other posts about bingham's interview.

    But really, if my project lead says he's leaving in 3 months, and I think he's instrumental to the project's success, I keep him in place and spend the next 3 months trying to keep him happy and convince him he has a long term future. In bingham's case, it appears the quakes felt they had an almost equal replacement, so making bingham happy was not an option they considered.
     
  15. Tom Szabo

    Tom Szabo Member

    Dec 31, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I agree, it is counterproductive to bench a player simply as punishment or bargaining leverage when that player is looking at other options. I would say this type of treatment is the exception not the rule. As already stated here, Bingham wasn't in good form when he was benched so his continued involvement was not instrumental especially with another option being available. And he is known for having a poor attitude .... maybe the team wasn't willing to rely on him in particular. As for Wenger, he didn't bench Alexis Sanchez because he was talking about going to another team, he benched Sanchez because of bad attitude and it was arguably the right thing to do. Same thing with Diego Costa. Obviously there is some other stuff involved as well but I think all these guys share the blame for their benching. I can't speak for Hamid ... yes they needed to see how the other goalkeeper would perform in a game before the season ended but the optics of his benching were terrible.
     
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  16. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yes, this is another possible scenario. If they had decided they were not going to re-sign Bingham at all, then they would be pretty stupid to keep playing him when there is another keeper who will be sticking around who needs game minutes. You could also look at the timing of Tarbell's inclusion in the starting lineup as evidence of this. Without Kinnear's support, Bingham has no authoritative advocate to keep him playing, and thus the front office just decides to move on.

    My memory isn't great so I'm not sure the Kinnear firing and Bingham benching timelines work out 100% there. In any case, whether the Quakes intended to get negotiating leverage over him or not by benching him, they did. I am pretty confident it was intentional as it's not unusual behavior for teams to behave this way. Either way, it certainly doesn't make San Jose look great from a player relations standpoint, not that anyone should have expected them to be.
     
  17. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think if Bingham really should have just shut up and gone his way. I can't imagine that there are any benefits accruing to him from sharing this sort of information. If I were a European GM, it might influence me to look elsewhere, as it almost seems like a warning sign of potential difficulties...
     
  18. sacrxy

    sacrxy BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 6, 2003
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  19. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Players really have few avenues of recourse if they think they are being treated unfairly. They can go to the union, which probably would have no recourse in this case either since it doesn't appear anything violating their agreement happened.

    Talking to the media is really all that's left, though it largely falls on deaf ears and people don't really like to hear pro athletes complain very much. I can't say I blame Bingham for going to the public with his side of the situation, but you're right that it probably didn't do much for him. I doubt he's ever going to Europe and he's good enough that MLS teams will keep him on a rosters for quite a while, I'd imagine, unless he has some real blow ups with teammates or something.
     
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  20. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No way...no possible way. A team that's still in the playoff hunt plays the player that they think increases the chances of their winning the game. There's nothing more to it at all. The Quakes owners by are not using the sports frachise to try to make money buying and selling players despite losing. I wouldn't say that's never been done by a team. But the Quakes don't exist for that purpose. The Quakes aren't going to ever choose to field a team that doesn't give them the best chance to win unless they're already out of playoff contention.
     
  21. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    I think you spelled normal wrong.
     
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  22. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, the Quakes played Tarbell with a sports hernia rather than let Bingham get back in goal. I'd say that's a club that is not choosing the player most likely to give them a win, unless by then Bingham was absolute poison on the field.
     
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  23. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    You are assuming that 1) the Quakes knew Tarbell had a sports hernia before postseason physical, 2) it happened relatively early in Tarbell's stint as a starter or before he became a starter, and 3) if it affected Tarbell's play in some significant way.

    We don't know any of those things.
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    When all else fails, Bingham is only a GK. Other than Jorge Campos (who’s novelty wore off quickly), for as long as I have followed the game, I never saw fans flock to a stadium or care about the goalkeeping position. They are a dime a dozen and I’m sure the Quakes can find an adequate or comparable replacement , either at home or abroad.
     

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