this argument doesn't work for me since I believe Shin TY is worse than Stielike. however, i will agree.. Bento underachieved compared to Stielike on results. as for timing on Shin TY, to some degree.. sure. however, he was part of previous cycle for the whole duration. he was the 1st to be hired by KFA after 2014 WC & managed U20 to senior NT. being Korean & as ex-manager of K League.. he knew every players. can't say the same for Bento.
The expectations were to not extremely struggle in scoring from open play against Phillippines, Kyrgyz Republic, China, Bahrain, and Qatar.
tbf if we had a half decent striker, I don't think any of us would be complaining. I actually like our build up. The only real complaint I got for Bento is in his team selection.
Guys, as much as I am enjoying this (partially because I kind of instigated it), isn't this basically the same thing as arguing whether K-League or MLS is better? And not taking sides here, but I don't like using U-23 and U-20 results in arguments like this (otherwise, let's just bring HMB back). In STY's case, I don't think they particularly help/hurt him anyway. The U-20 result was just a tad underwhelming given the hype and home field, and in Rio, we played like dog crap against Mexico despite the win (and of course lost to Honduras). You can easily argue that STY didn't really get a fair chance w the senior NT, just as easily as you can argue that Bento still deserves time. But please, carry on.
well, you must not have watched Korea for the past 8+ yrs in that case. Qatar won the AC, they were about the only team who played well the whole tournament & Korea struggled to even beat Qatar in WCQ (lost to them too). even under Shin TY.. Korea struggled to score more than two goals against lesser opponents (which includes China & ranked nations as low as Phillippines and so forth).
We all know exactly why we lost to Qatar in WCQ. It was the blessing sent to us by the football gods because they knew our plights and hardships. And it wasn't because Qatar is "good." And what teams did we struggle to score against that were as "low" as Phillippines? The only low teams we played under STY is Moldova, which was merely a friendly we did win.
North Korea is only one above Philliphines and below everyone else from Asian Cup https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/#AFC Molova, Latvia.. below every opponent from Asian Cup. Jamaica isn't some powerhouse either.. ranked about where Qatar is. couldn't even score with ease ... i mean, they were games Korea struggled to create chances.... when literally nothing was on the line. vs Qatar the past 8 yrs... 2 wins - 2 loss (didn't even score over 2 goals vs them.. unless you want to go a little further when Cho KR was the manager). Qatar isn't some pushover Korea defeated with ease https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2013/03/26/asia/wc-qualifying-asia/korea-republic/qatar/1269287/ edit - btw, i can easily make the same case on "expectations". Korea was supposed to win vs Sweden & tie vs Mexico. instead, Korea lost both (in some embarrassing fashion too) while got a fluke win vs Germany when Korea was practically knocked out from tournament except for some miracle
LOL you're using friendlies that mean absolutely nothing (the whole point of them is to experiment) as an argument against Shin's tactics when we couldn't create absolutely anything in the matches that actually matter and everything was on the line against absolutely horrible opponents we should be defeating 4-0 even 5-0 easily. Which is worse? Everybody would say the latter.
Qatar is a weak team with worse players on every position, with players from a vastly inferior league and hasn't qualified for the world cup in many many years. Don't even try arguing Qatar is even close to the level of Korea in terms of skill. According to this logic, we struggled to defeat China with ease in the past few years. Guess China is no pushover then?
No you cannot. Korea was not expected to win even against Sweden according to many football experts (unless you're relying on biased Korean commentators in which they would think Korea is better, although that may not be the case). Mexico has arguably better players on every position except for Son. They were huge favorites, they always made it to the round of 16, they were the huge favorites to advance against Germany. You cannot reasonably or even logically argue we are "on-par" with them in terms of skill or even team chemistry. We were outsiders for this match just like against Germany. Where in the world did you hear we were expected to "tie against Mexico"? That's honestly the most wrong statement I've seen. We were not expected to even tie Mexico before the Sweden game. After the Sweden game everyone had even worse expectations for Korea against Mexico. Korea was not "expected to tie" against Mexico by any means.
couldn't create in matches that matter (WCQ & WC) and couldn't create in matches that doesn't matter at all (friendlies, with absolutely zero pressure). in general, his tactics didn't create shit in any games and no, friendlies aren't all about "experiments". especially when you have literally 1 yr before the WC. considering he knew & managed every player in the squad, it would have been wiser by sticking with plan A (something he never had) & settled on a squad. you don't Fing experiment or tinker at the end of WC cycle what's your point? Korea couldn't beat Qatar with ease (or win in general) for the past 8 years. better yet, Korea struggled EVERY SINGLE TIME.. your whole argument is "it should be easy win" when results have shown it wasn't at all at any given point. why not? you are basically doing it based on your own perspective. experts or not, i can easily find articles (from respected media.. not some Korean media BS) where Korea was favored to battle with Mexico for 2nd spot behind Germany. before the WC, Korea actually had decent record vs Mexico too. around 50/50 (which sort of includes games from Olympics). so, the whole notion Korea should have gotten a draw vs Mexico isn't completely off in a WC cycle Mexico had some ridiculously embarrassing results prior to the WC as for in Asian Cup, since you care about this supposed "experts" so much... nearly everyone said Qatar looked the best during the tournament. YES, Qatar... they played well in nearly every game unlike all the supposed "big" teams of Asia.
except this is how Korea played.. even if FIFA showed it as 4-4-2 with Son & Lee JS as 2 FWs (https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/match/300331549/#match-lineups) https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1249961/Live/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2018-South-Korea-Mexico even KFA own website doesn't believe they actually played 4-4-2 flat (you can check the heatmap of player position from whoscored.. clearly shows it wasn't 4-4-2 flat at all) http://www.kfa.or.kr/national/?act=...6&search_val=2018&cursor=#cursor_location_sub they agree with transfermarkt lineup https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2977716 edit #2 - on friendly beign all about experiment BS>. just look at Germany Spain and so forth. especially in the 1st cycle, Germany is all about 4-2-3-1. Spain identify itself with 4-3-3 friendlies are just as important to work on cohesion, organization, working on clear identity and so forth. not just "experiments"
He played a variation of the 4-4-2 strategy with Lee Jae Sung playing up top next to Son but occasionally dropping back to fill the hole between the midfield and attack while Moon Seon Min and Hwang Hee Chan playing a little bit higher up the pitch compared to the midfielders (just like in the FIFA lineup).
I think you two are more passionate about the KNT than I and I applaud you both. If bento were to get on the hot seat in Q4 2019 or 2020, would STY be a top candidate to replace him? Or are there other more prominent but realistic candidates?
Pak Tae Ha -Experience with Korean football -Achieved success with Chinese side Yanbian Funde -Currently working with Chinese women's national team set up
variation strategy? that's basically saying 4-2-3-1 w/ Lee JS pushing up at times (of which, that is exactly how it looks in still photos) edit - your whole argument for Shin TY is based on Mexico (where Korea lost) and fluke win vs Germany (where Korea was pretty much knocked out of the tournament before the match) while ignoring every other games/results under Shin TY. btw, the win vs Germany does not even look great anymore considering how pitiful they have looked after the WC too
So you're saying Shin played a 4-2-3-1 strategy that he's never practiced at all in previous friendlies and randomly tried something new for the Mexico game? That doesn't make sense. And from the picture it looks more like 4-4-2, the reason Lee Jae Sung is a little bit behind Son than next to him is because Son was pressing. And the only competitive games STY played were against Uzbekistan, Iran, and the world cup games. Think about how the team would perform if it was STY as coach and we played against teams that are the likes of Kyrgyz Republic, Phillippines, China, Bahrain (excluding Qatar). We would win every single game just like Bento would have, because they are extremely weak teams compared to Korea. This so called "record" Bento has is meaningless if we think about the quality of opposition, especially because the performance in those competitive games were utter garbage.
hahahhahha https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2697019 https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2970933 https://www.transfermarkt.com/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/2983621 btw, i didn't even list the games he managed as interim manager.. where he started off with 4-2-3-1 and mroe.. HHAHAHAHHA.. sorry. when he couldn't even beat China at EAFF..even if it was just a "FRIENDLY" while the games he managed vs Iran & Uzbek were one of the shittiest game for Korea that I can remember (seriously, 0 shot on target.. not even a shot in 1st half i think vs Iran.. at HOME, w/ Iran down to 10 players)
Those games were not even in 2018. How dense are you? STY practiced basically every strategy he was going to use in the world cup in 2018. Also, it's extremely funny how a self-proclaimed "football expert" gets mistaken about a starting lineup we played when it's extremely obvious we played 4-4-2 LMFAO (just like how you assume how games went purely based on possession and passes completed) instead of how the game actually went. Now that's extremely funny. Also more hahahahaha you contradicted yourself yet again. You bring up EAFF and yet we beat Japan in the same tournament and won the overall EAFF.
The "shittiest games I can remember" are all the games under Bento during the Asian Cup. You can't logically make that argument with STY because I can do the same with Bento. Think again.
lol, now you pivot to he never practiced them in 2018?? umm.. okay and no, it wasn't clear 4-4-2 vs Mexico, no matter how you want to twist it. and your whole argument is Shin TY would have done better based on Uzk, Iran and Germany. what exactly did you see.. especially vs Uzk or Iran, in a competitive match to say he would have done better??? he won ONE competitive game (meaningless one at the end imo). to say Korea would have scored for fun with Shin TY as manager .. based on goalless draws vs Uzk/Iran.... struggled to even have shots on target.. is purelly.. just your fascination with Shin TY