One of the benefits of modular construction is that you don't need to have heavy machinery on the field, just move the pieces in starting from the front and work your way back.
here's an article on the new Cincinnati stadium WATCH: FC Cincinnati hosts hard-hat tour of its stadium construction site https://www.fox19.com/2019/12/18/wa...tter [issue:24823]&utm_term=Construction Dive From the article: "One sticking point regarding the stadium remains. As reported by FOX19 NOW’s media partners at the Cincinnati Enquirer, the club and Hamilton county remain at odds over plans to create structured parking near the stadium. The county reportedly voted to put $25 million towards building 1,000 parking spaces. Issues remain with the number and locations of the garage(s), how much money the county should put down and who should be responsible for covering debt payments. It’s been more challenging than we wished,” Berding said. “They (the county) do have a meeting tomorrow, and it would be a wonderful holiday gift to get that behind us.”
I am so glad that there are billionaires available to subsidize my hobby. It appears to be their hobby, too. If they are bothered by 25 million, I wish I had their problems.
Just in: FC Cincinnati and Hamilton County have reached a tentative deal on parking garages:1. The county will build 850 spaces on the stadium site.2. It will build 300 spaces at Findlay Market.3. The cost is about $27 million.— Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz) December 19, 2019 4. The team will kick in the cost of property acquisition and site demolition.5. The team will get gameday revenue but it will be reduced if the garages fare poorly financially.— Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz) December 19, 2019 6. If you’re adding up the local taxpayer subsidy of infrastructure related to the stadium, this means it now stands at $62 million. That doesn’t include state funding, which I can’t remember the number of at the moment.— Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz) December 19, 2019 Independent confirmation... Apparently Hamilton County and FC Cincinnati have reached an agreement on building a parking garage for the team. Source says deal is done, and county commission will vote on it tonight.— Jay Hanselman (@JayHanselman) December 19, 2019
From the "Here We Go Again Dept.": NYCFC with a stadium announcement tomorrow? Unlike other false starts, this one has a rendering at what looks to be the GAL Elevator site. We shall see. Tomorrow. pic.twitter.com/FgFIZn3dWC— The Outfield (@OutfieldNYCFC) December 19, 2019
Make of it what you will, but it isn't an official announcement or anything, someone just got access to some renderings, zoning, and site maps that NYCFC has made for the GAL site. https://theoutfield.org/2019/12/20/a-first-look-at-nycfcs-bronx-stadium-plan/
26k in the largest metro area in the country for a team that averaged 29k in its first year of existence? You can be a mass market, fan culture, for-the-people civic institution, or you can be an exclusive, velvet rope luxury experience, but you can't be both. I don't see the growth path for the latter, I really don't.
I don't get that either. They're running a wonderful operation, but how do they grow? 3252 is not a lot of people!
When I was growing up in Michigan, you basically had to know a season ticket holder to see a Red Wings game live. Didn't exactly hurt their market or visibility.
Looks a lot more like a proposal than something that has been signed off on by all the required authorities.
When you were growing up in Michigan the Red Wings were deeply embedded in the fabric of the city and region over decades, and were in a league playing many other teams where that was the case. It's a different part of the development curve. Plus Detroit's a smallish market, plus the inherent capacity limitations of hockey arenas, plus soccer and MLS is a different sort of product more big crowd focused, plus this was a time when the Red Wings were booming but many others and arguably the league was languishing, plus, plus, plus. MLS succeeds because it's a good live entertainment product at a competitive price point. It's growing as the big four sorta plateau. Steer into that.
I mean, on that same token, I've yet to hear about people being unable to get tickets for LAFC games who've wanted them. Maybe not El Traffico, but it's not like people who want to see the team are shut out.
Maybe so, it's certainly tough to criticize what LAFC has done so far on or off the field. But if you think on an ambitious growth trajectory, one where fan interest continues to climb, TV ratings improve, etc, etc, in the peak markets of the league, how are these small stadia going to be enough? And with most things like this you say "worry about it when you get there". But when you're pouring concrete you're creating something at least semi-permanent. In the optimistic scenario for MLS LAFC is happily playing in a 22k venue in 2035? Really? What happens when the over-educated financial elite hipsters have kids? Where do they sit? In some ways I see MLS just sort of lurching from growth opportunity to growth opportunity kinda feeling their way along as they go. I don't think that's too bad of a plan really. But then when they box themselves into these tiny venues in major markets I just wonder how they don't see how limiting that is to their future options. They're just going to contentedly have triple the attendance in Atlanta that they have in DC? Why? (The dark timeline answer to this question is that the US sports ownership class makes their money from TV and luxury boxes and truly doesn't care about filling the nosebleeds anymore. That's both normatively gross, but also I think pretty misguided for the kind of product MLS is. MLS is largely failing as a TV and major market corporatized sports player. It's succeeding as a mass-market lifestyle brand. You need seats to grow that.)
Smallish Market? Detroit is the 14th largest MSA in the states, with just under 4.5 million people. (FYI Boston is #10 @ 4.8mill, are they small market, too?) Big Crowd focused? Little Caeser seats just under 20,000, Joe Louis had seating just over 20,000. Apparently only part of MLS is big crowd focused, as 8 of 24(2019) teams are in stadiums at or under 20,000. the next 8 are all under 30,000, and the final eight play in stadiums designed for other sports. You did get the price point thing right, for now. But as the league grows, so will payroll, and ticket prices, unfortunately.
Can we settle for mid-sized market? I don't mean to impugn Detroit, it's just not one the very biggest, which is where I'm most concerned about MLS constraining itself. Soccer generally and MLS specifically has more focus on the crowd than other sports. It emphasizes being part of the crowd, of a supporters group, whatever. Or they could just sell more tickets. The NFL, NBA, and NHL are somewhere in the vicinity of the maximum number of people they could fit in a facility for their sport. They could go higher maybe, but not anywhere near, say, double. MLS could triple without breaking a sweat, there are loads of good 60k+ soccer stadia in the world, most of the best in fact.
But, as i said, As (popularity) demand increases, so will prices. Higher prices = harder to sell. Attendance in the big four is down over the last 5-10 years, and one of the most cited reasons is ticket prices. I know i attend fewer games than i have in the past for this reason. Not sure about "not breaking a sweat", given 2/3rds the league didn't sell out this past season, with multiple teams failing to sell out even 20,000 seat stadiums. Again, the big four have seen attendance decreases lately. MLS may still be in the growth phase, but tripling seems optimistic. Most of the European leagues are averaging under 30k, only Germany (43k) & England (38k) are above 30k. Remember for every Barcelona or Man U, you also have a Eibar or Bournemouth. So while we may not have as many 60k stadiums, we also don't have the sub 12k stadiums either. Avg Attendance info: Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...eague-by-attendance-says-report/#2776c3f86b2b Statista: https://www.statista.com/statistics...iums-in-the-world-by-average-attendance-2010/ Don't get me wrong, I would love to see MLS attendance increase, and the corresponding effect on the league. I just don't see it happening, especially tripling, anytime soon.
Me, personally, I like the smaller stadiums. MLS stadiums should be between 20-30k. Smaller stadiums mean a more intimate experience, scarcity of tickets can draw more interest and that mean way more than the "let see how many people we can cram in here" mentality. It's much more comfortable to sit at home and watch sports/my team on TV and because of streaming I can watch my team who is playing down the road from my house without worrying about blackouts. NFL stadiums are now giant soulless buildings. I've been to many MLB stadiums and they average 40k and are mostly empty save weekend games.
You're making my point. Respond to increased demand by pricing out your core audience, and you hollow yourself out. Respond to increased demand with more seats and you just scale up and up and up. You're not understanding. What I'm saying is that, say, the United Center in Chicago or MetLife Stadium in NY/NJ are somewhere near the outer bounds of how many seats you can pack in for those respective sports. A bit higher, but not way higher. Raising the prices is the only way to go for revenue growth, there's no room for more people. Soccer can be comfortably played in NFL-sized venues. A bit bigger, even. Which means MLS has miles and miles and miles of runway to add seats without pricing people out. So long as they haven't locked themselves into 20-something K venues in some of the biggest cities in the world, that is. That's my point. The best soccer stadia are giant soulful buildings. Offering an experience you can't replicate at home. It's a sport well-positioned to cater to the live audience and run counter to industry trends. And that's not pie-in-the-sky theory, Atlanta and Seattle are doing it. Portland is doing it. As the famous quote goes, "the future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed."
I agree with most of your statement however Atlanta and Seattle are exceptions not rules. Atlanta is notorious for not being a sports town and not supporting their teams. United has curiously bucked that trend but they have been a force on the field since Game 1. The team is 3 years old already with a star above their crest. Hopefully they keep it up even if they have a disappointing season and have made questionable FO and player calls like all teams do eventually. Seattle is also a team that came into the league with a lot of fanfare and were competitive from Day 1 as well. They are a team that has never had a losing season nor ever missed the playoffs and have 2 stars above their crest now. Portland has a 25k seat newly expanded stadium are exactly who I'm talking about when I say MLS needs smaller, more intimate stadiums. For every Atlanta, I can show you New England. For every Seattle, I can show you DC in RFK. The Fire have killed whatever fanbase they had with their last decade of decision making and are moving into Soldier Field. I doubt all the fans are coming back, at least not right away. They're going to be more like New England shitty teams in shitty stadiums with shitty crests. I have also been very critical of MLS giving Charlotte a team so Tepper can fill dates in his NFL stadium. It screams MLS 1.0.
No i get that NBA/NHL stadiums are built to hold 20k fans, and they typically sell out or are near sellouts. That has nothing to do with your claim that MLS can triple it's attendance without breaking a sweat. I just pointed out that in general, sports attendance in the US is down over the last decade. I also pointed out that 2/3rds the league can't fill their current 20k seats. So, how are they going to fill 60k+? Yes, it can be played in an NFL sized venue, it can even be played in a 40k baseball stadium. But as i said earlier, only 1/3rd the league is playing in stadiums over 30k. The current crop of owners seem content at around 22-25k. That Beckham guy in Miami has played in these giant stadiums, but yet he's elected to build a smaller stadium in Miami, why do you suppose that is? You are apparently much more bullish on MLS than the people paying for the stadiums. Giant, soulful buildings aren't just built, they have to develop over time. Isn't this a common complaint about the newer Big 4 stadiums, that they lack the soul of their predecessors? Yes, Atlanta and Seattle are "doing it". Portland does well in a 25k stadium, nowhere near your triple (60k). NYC (largest us city) Chicago (#3), Boston (#10)have not given any indication that they can or will draw 60k anytime soon. Vancouver plays in a 55-60k stadium, but isn't close to filling it. Dallas and Houston (#4 & 5) both saw attendance decreases last season, and cant fill their 20-22k stadiums. You can say it's not pie in the sky theory, but the current numbers disagree with you. As i said above, I'd love to see MLS really take off, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
I'd counter that Atlanta is MLS 1.0 since Atlanta was MLS giving Atlanta a team so Blank can fill dates in his NFL stadium.