The Knockout Stage Discussion

Discussion in 'Euro 2016' started by JamestheDW1, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I guess you must not like football because this happens in every competition. It happens in Champions League. It happens in all the big European leagues. It happens in the World Cup. It happens in Copa America. All football has an element of the smaller underdog going up against the favorite.

    You must be one of those fans that wants to see a European Super League with no relegation just so you can see the same 20 super clubs playing against each other all the time. For me that takes the joy out of the sport.

    Anyways, I'm not sure there is a problem with the quality of play. First of all this tournament has not had any blow outs of more than 3 goals. No team finished with 9 points. That seems like quite a bit of evidence that the smaller countries deserve to compete on this stage.

    I do agree that there are some criticisms on how the 3rd place teams get to advance, especially when they have a losing record like Northern Ireland. Perhaps some format tweaks can be made for the future to not reward mediocrity as much. One idea could be to have the 2 best 3rd place teams advance directly to round of 16. And the remaining 4 3rd place teams have to play an extra elimination match against each other before round of 16. That way you force these teams to actually be winners in order to earn the right to advance. Settling for 3 points in group stage should not be enough to earn automatic qualification.
     
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  2. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Switzerland-Poland 0-1 - This might be the most even game in round of 16. Both teams have defended well and neither team has really created a big attacking chemistry. The difference for me is that Poland plays with 2 strikers and they're both very good. Sooner or later one of them will finish a chance and Switzerland is just not creative enough to come back from 0-1. I predict that we might have to wait for extra time for Poland to finish this

    Croatia-Portugal 3-1 - This isn't a prediction, but more of a hope. But why not? Croatia has looked stronger and they seem to have no problem creating chances. My only concern is that Croatia sooner or later always gets eliminated somehow and their defense is not exactly perfect. One or two defensive lapses and Portugal can capitalize and change the momentum.

    Wales-Northern Ireland 1-0 - Northern Ireland seem to have an ability of keeping games close, but not a whole ton of ability to outplay opponents. I think Northern Ireland will be content to keep it at 0-0 but in the end Wales will have a moment of quality from Bale, Ramsey or Allen and advance.

    Hungary-Belgium 0-3 - I think Hungary might just be too happy to have even gotten this far. There's just no experience on the Hungary team in playing big elimination matches even at the club level. Belgium is just too loaded with talent and just starting to pick up momentum with 2 straight wins and 2 straight shutouts.

    Germany-Slovakia 4-1 - Germany will finally find their attacking rhythm in this game. You could already see signs of it in Northern Ireland game. Playing Gomez up top with Muller underneath centrally was a perfect tactical adjustment from Low. Muller could have had 3-4 goals in the last match and he has done it so often in the World Cup that it's inevitable that sooner or later it happens in Euros too.

    Italy-Spain 0-1 - Unfortunately Italy's best talent is on the bench (Conte) and not on the field. He may have been able to outsmart an inexperienced Marc Wilmots, but Del Bosque is a wily veteran manager and he will be prepared. Even though Spain lost their last match, I think they learned some important lessons that they will use against Italy. First of all I don't think you'll see Del Bosque make any more negative substitutions like Bruno Soriano in the last game. On the other hand I don't think Italy learned anything in their last game. Perhaps too many changes and if anything the changes seemed to confuse the team more than to inspire it. When a manager makes so many changes you always hope that the reserves use the opportunity like Croatia did. The Italy reserves just show that the Italian talent pool is very shallow.

    France-Ireland 2-1 - Perhaps Ireland is not a particularly good team. They got lucky by facing a totally changed Italy squad. I would have rather seen a team like Turkey sneak into the round of 16 instead of Ireland. Under normal circumstances I'd be rooting for Ireland to get payback for the Henry handball. But with home field advantage I think it'll be relatively comfortable for France. They go up 2-0 early, they relax for rest of game and maybe Ireland gets a consolation goal late in stoppage time

    England-Iceland 1-1 (4-5) - Iceland has seemed very much like a 1-1 type of team in this tournament. Just enough quality to steal a goal somewhere and just enough defensive organization to not give up more than 1. I just don't see England doing any better than Portugal could do against Iceland. Once it gets to penalties you'd expect England to have the more mentally experience squad, but I hope that by some miracle something crazy happens like Rooney hitting the post on his penalty kick and Iceland advances with the game of their lives.
     
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  3. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    For those of you complaining about the extra teams in this tournament just listen to this Iceland announcer ...



    It's easy for a Germany fan to say that they're bored of having to play against the Northern Irelands and Slovakias of the world. They only want to play against the likes of England and France ... But don't expect fans of smaller nations to agree with that.

    Congratulations Iceland, Hungary, Wales, Ireland etc ... The tournament has been more fun with you than without you.
     
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  4. JamestheDW1

    JamestheDW1 Member

    Mar 24, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem is barcaq8 and White/Blue_since 1860 like criticising everything and they are not grateful for anything, they just complain, complain, complain. They only care about the big teams, not all the teams which is terrible really.
    I am an England fan and I have to say this is spot on. Wales are a great team that I see for their clever tactics, quality spine and wonderful fans, and also because they are British, that means I also support them during their Euro's campaign. I feel like I should have supported them instead of England sometimes because of how atrocious of a footballing nation we can be sometimes, but I never let that get in the way of me supporting England. Nonetheless, we are still a shocking team with horrifying attitudes.
    You are really hitting the jackpot with your statement, predictions and YouTube link. Although I think Italy will beat Spain, Spain can still beat Italy. They are one of the few teams that can take on the Italians.
     
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  5. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poland
    Portugal
    N. Ireland
    Belgium
    Germany
    Spain
    England
    France

    Semifinalists:
    Portugal
    Belgium
    Germany
    France

    Final: France over Portugal
     
  6. JamestheDW1

    JamestheDW1 Member

    Mar 24, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I do not agree with Northern Ireland and Portugal advancing, but Spain do have a chance. Also I would fancy Germany/Italy/Spain vs Croatia in the final. For me, Croatia are the only small nation that can take on the giants that are Germany, Italy and Spain. However I do not think that France are that good, and I do not rate Portugal and Belgium anywhere near higher than Croatia, I believe that Croatia are a different class to Portugal and Belgium altogether. However the predictions are interesting.
     
  7. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #32 Gilbertsson, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
    Big headed: Danijel Subasic, Dejan Lovren (kicked from the team before the EURO), Vedran Corluka, Domagoj Vida (The Warrior, The Fighter), Darijo Srna (he thinks that he doesn't have anyone who could replace him, RB position reserved just for him, all mighty captain, who talks too much about his patriotism), Mario Madzukic (he can't connect 2,3 seasons in one club) and Marko Pjaca (he didn't even started to play for Croatia on some high level, at least he is talented and he will be the new star).

    Interesting, weakest spot of this team is big headed. Everyone says that Croatian defence is slower and some of them play in Russia, Ukraine which is not so good.

    For example, Mario Mandzukic (The Protected One) played in two matches and very weak achievement. Ivan Kalinic played one game and he scored and assisted. Mario played in Bayern, Atletico, Juventus...and even in Dinamo Zagreb he was arrogant, he scored in UEFA Cup 2 goals in Amsterdam against Ajax, Dinamo won 2-3. Mandzukic didn't made anything after in that club. The club waited him...for example he played in Wolfsburg longer, because this is a weaker club than Bayern, Atletico, Juventus...he ended in clouds with these three clubs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_UEFA_Cup

    The problem with Mario is that he doesn't learn the language of the country where he plays. Josep Guardiola kicked him from Bayern. Guardiola said that he hated the way how he celebrates, his two palms behind his ears. The problem was deeper for sure. Interesting, he stopped with such celebrations.

    He also said mocking things that he can't make physical work like some ordinary people. He finished high school and became worker with ceramics...cuisine and bathroom ceramics, and he said why would I do that. I play football, spend time in fancy hotels, I eat well, drive good cars.:cool: But he corrected himself, after he has seen his bad attitude. He said: You never know, maybe I will return to my high school occupation.:D

    Every team has big headed players, only some of them don't have media exposure and attention. Imagine, how many big headed players Croatia has and no one has ever seen them on some nicer national or club level.:D

    Ex-footballers with big headed issue: Robert Kovac, Niko Kranjcar, Davor Suker (self-proclaimed Croatian Brand), Igor Stimac, Stjepan Tomas, Alen Boksic, Boris Zivkovic, Bosko Balaban...Vedran Runje, Silvio Maric, Igor Biscan, Ivan Bosnjak, Ivica Krizanac, Sammir, Alen Halilovic (two states had media conflicts because of him). Some of them were really bad and they managed to play in Premierleague, La Liga, French league.:D

    Subjects of Croatian Football Federation are also big headed, players have really nice pattern for their behaviour.;)

    About the fans, you are mostly correct. Nobody even goes on national league matches. Stadiums are mostly empty.
     
  8. Marco Delvecchio

    Marco Delvecchio Red Card

    Apr 9, 2016
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Portugal
    Wales
    Belgium
    Germany
    Italy
    England
    France
    Poland
     
  9. JamestheDW1

    JamestheDW1 Member

    Mar 24, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As much as I like your points, I do not look this deep into these football players because as an English person following English articles, I find that most of the news about footballers tend to be rubbish, especially the transfer news but you see I can not stand gossip articles, articles that hype up players and articles that tear down players, so I just stick with articles such as BBC Sport (only with the actual news articles, not with Phil McNulty's joker articles), Sky News and worldfootball.net. These are the sources I look into for player news or team news, and then I also judge players attitudes and football teams by watching them on the field and following the honest news articles that I know are 100% true. The thing is you are Croatian, so I am guessing that news is more honest and media is less sillier in Croatia because I know that from my experiences, the news and media in the UK and US can be very stupid most of the time. I could not know anything about Croatian news and media until I actually learn your language so I can know what the news and media are saying. However I could only know what news and media are like in an English-speaking country such as the UK, Ireland, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc for I can only speak English and when it comes to news and media, I always want to see everything for myself and understand everything off the way I see it. So like I said, you make good points but I am not 100% sure whether I should believe them or not, and also my idea of big-headed is players like Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Sterling and Adebayor who may be seen as very big-headed, but I just see them as big-headed because I do not like being too harsh on football players for a lot of them have had to grow up around poverty, gangs, alcoholics, drug dealers and dysfunctional families and all of this is terrible for a child to grow up around as we all know, and I believe that around 10-20% of children could make it out of those conditions healthy, alive and safe for obvious reasons. If anything I always want football players to succeed even if there is something I do not agree with when relating to their personality, playing style or their ways of thinking. For that reason I respect them a lot whether they are big-headed, aggressive or dirty, and because I am going to try and become a football academy coach myself, I want to do my best to help younger generations succeed like all those football players have as well for I am not good enough at football to become a football player myself.
     
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  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    In England, this is different. Footballers are part of tabloids. But Croatian media likes to make negative critical tones about the players. Croats in generally are not excited about the stars, asking signatures from known people, since Croatia is a tourist country, a lot of famous people come in Croatia, for example John Terry at the moment, if we observe football people. But media sources are much more impressed, especially foreign media. The Mirror describes Terry as Rocky Balboa, it seems that he came to make some extreme training. The Dailymail and The Sun.:confused:

    I usually observe their personal TV interviews, behaviour at the field, verbal and non-verbal communication. I don't read written sources, where media can invert sentences and create flames with those subjects of interest.

    I am aware of media superficial pattern. Croats are much more realistic, oriented much more on themselves, their everyday lives, how to use their skills, creativity, knowledge...but I notice for years that larger part supports Croatian national team in a strange way, everything is coloured with some violent acts, flares, noise...some fans observe the world and life with strange point of view:

    - national team is sacred
    - clubs are sacred
    - jersey is sacred
    - everyone who tries to earn money on those sacred things is bad for Croatia
    - some fans want that everything around football becomes non-profit
    - some people use the national team, clubs for their own interests

    For example, I notice Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Iceland, Sweden...etc. who support their teams without any conditions. Southern Europe is much more critical, just observe Spanish, Portuguese, Italian media.

    At the moment, Croatian team is blessed with glorification statements in Croatian media, but if they lose against Portugal, completely the opposite will appear. That's why Croatian players often play under stress for the national team. They already start to point: Mandzukic or Kalinic, if coach makes this mistake...Croatia will play with one attacker for sure, in 4-5-1 formation.

    I follow media from different countries, I have been lazy and left German media, since it's hard to say is Germany good or bad with their current football achievement.

    But it's interesting in French, Spanish, Italian media. Irish media will become interesting because of Henry and his hand against Ireland.

    UK media will be also interesting if Wales, England, NI go further, especially if Northern Ireland meets Republic of Ireland.

    As you can see, I am aware that media rests in background and waits all sorts of sources for attention.
    For example, the question occurred why Northern Ireland has the same anthem like England and Wales doesn't have, since they are also part of the Union Jack.

    A lot of silly themes over the last 10-15 years. In 90's football didn't had such attention. Maybe few footballers had attention: Tony Adams, Paul Gascoigne, Stuart Pearce, Roy Keane, Robbie Fowler, David Beckham and Gareth Southgate when he missed one penalty...but this was all. Now, they are all present, from all football countries.:rolleyes:

    Adebayor was big headed, just if you remember his goal celebration in front of Arsenal fans in his Man. City kit. He ran at least 50,60 meters to demonstrate something.

    In some psychological sense, footballers can become big headed if they suffer a lot in their childhood.
     
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  11. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    I've watched all the matches and some have been absolutely dreadful. Yes not a single team won all 9 points, but there are two teams that made it through with 3 points and another two with just four. That's pathetic. The 3rd place system is such a farce.

    Teams that were sitting on 3 points heading into their final match didn't even need to win to get through. Some only had to avoid losing by too many goals!

    Certain teams sitting in 2nd place didn't even make a push to win the group knowing that their wasn't really any advantage between coming 1st or 2nd. You also had a number of teams that were already through after team matches who decided to play a team full of reserves in their final game.
     
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  12. barcaq8

    barcaq8 Member

    Jul 14, 2014
    Camp Nou, Barcelona
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I totally agree with you! This tournment facilitated the ability to bunker on your defensive area pray for a draw in the 3 matches, collect 3 points and move on to the next round!

    Poor football till now and many matches were meaningless!
     
  13. Marco Delvecchio

    Marco Delvecchio Red Card

    Apr 9, 2016
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Thread started good analysis. Unbiased opinion and on the money. He's a good lad that bloke.
     
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  14. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    This tournament has 69 goals in 36 matches for 1.92 average.

    In 2012 it was 60 goals in 24 matches for 2.50 average.
    In 2008 it was 57 goals in 24 matches for 2.38 average.
    In 2004 it was 64 goals in 24 matches for 2.67 average.
    In 2000 it was 65 goals in 24 matches for 2.71 average.
    In 1996 it was 55 goals in 24 matches for 2.29 average.

    Obviously the new format has had an impact in goals scored. I still think it's possible to increase goal scoring with 24 teams. They just need to tweak the format in ways that incentivize more attacking early on in the group.

    One way to do this could be to have an open bracket with teams ranked 1 through 16 based on points/goal differential/goals scored. Maybe that would motivate the big teams more to fight for the 9 points in order to secure the easiest possible opponent.

    1)France
    2)Germany
    3)Croatia
    4)Poland
    5)Wales
    6)Spain
    7)Belgium
    8)Italy
    9)Hungary
    10)Iceland
    11)England
    12)Switzerland
    13)Slovakia
    14)Ireland
    15)Portugal
    16)Northern Ireland

    In this scenario your round of 16 on one side of the bracket would be France-Northern Ireland, Croatia-Ireland, Wales-Switzerland and Belgium-Iceland. On the other side it's Germany-Portugal, Poland-Slovakia, Spain-England and Italy-Hungary. You can see that teams like Poland and Croatia get rewarded for their 7 points with easier matches compared to a team like Wales who with only 6 points has a harder match. And the lowest seeded teams like Portugal and Northern Ireland get severely punished by having to face France and Germany. The current system allowed Northern Ireland to get an extremely undeserved easier match against Wales.

    Another adjustment could be to make the 3rd place teams play an extra head to head match against each other to advance to round of 16. You would still have to allow the top 2 3rd place teams to advance automatically just to make the math work ... but I have no problem with that. In the current competition that would have meant Slovakia and Ireland advancing with 4 points which is a reasonable. But the other 4 teams deserve to have an extra test to earn the right. In this tournament that would have meant Portugal-Albania and Northern Ireland-Turkey would have to play extra game. No team would want to go that route. That means an extra game with potential injuries and cards and in the end you still have to play France or Germany next. In that scenario maybe a team like Portugal would make an extra effort at the end to win instead of settling for a point against Hungary.
     
  15. JamestheDW1

    JamestheDW1 Member

    Mar 24, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Precisely my point, which is why I do not like being harsh on them for a high majority of footballers had to suffer during their childhood. It is fine to have a bad attitude in your late 10s and early 20s, but when you get to 30 and over it just becomes pathetic. For example Adebayor is 32 and his attitude still sucks, and that is why he is disrespected like crazy. Now I do bash certain young players if I feel they have gone too far, they are not doing their best or if they are playing for money and that I determine mostly on the field. When it comes to media and interviews, I do not 100% trust them because the media can be ridiculous or footballers might just be saying stuff but then inside they do not think that at all, instead they are just playing games with the media and a lot of players and managers do this.
    I actually agree with this one. Some matches have been really terrible, especially Sweden who for me were the most depressing team in the Euros.
    Must be the Atletico Madrid effect lol
     
  16. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    My 2 cents on the Euro knockouts

    2nd round:

    SWI V POL: 0-1
    CRO V POR: 3-1
    WAL V NIR: 1-1(WAL 4-3 PKS)
    HUN V BEL: 2-0
    GER V SLK: 3-0
    ITA V SPA: 2-1
    FRA V IRE: 2-0
    ENG V ICE: 1-2

    QF'S

    POL V CRO: 1-1(CRO 4-2 PKS)
    WAL V HUN: 0-1
    GER V ITA: 2-1
    FRA V ICE: 1-0

    SF'S

    CRO V HUN: 2-1
    FRA V GER: 1-4

    FINAL:

    CRO V GER: 1-3

    GERMANY WINS EURO 2016!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  17. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    As you briefly mention, re-seeding would have changed incentives. Teams would have been motivated to win as many points as possible in order to avoid matching up with other strong teams until as late as possible. As soon as some teams were already through, they rotated heavily or played very very conservatively. This format didn't just reward mediocrity, but also blunted incentives to continue competing at the maximum level.
     
  18. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    I don't know how you could do that. There is already a huge imbalance in the days of rest for some 3rd teams v. their 1st place opponents in R16. Portugal will have to play Croatia on only two days rest. I can't recall a team having to play on only two days rest at a major tournament before. France will have three days extra rest when they play Ireland. That should not happen.

    UEFA needs to figure out a better system for scheduling R16 matches, or either go back to 16 teams or maybe increase to 32 teams, so that the R16 match-ups can be scheduled in advance and more equitably as is done in the World Cup.
     
  19. JamestheDW1

    JamestheDW1 Member

    Mar 24, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So only one more day to go! I can hardly wait, I mean I just want to watch these matches now!
     
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  20. Marco Delvecchio

    Marco Delvecchio Red Card

    Apr 9, 2016
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Italy in 2012 played Germany on the Thursday then Spain on the Sunday, a final of all games. Same amount as rest as Portugal who played on Wednesday and playing today, Saturday.
     
  21. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And dont forget there's always an upset in the tournament and my upset is Iceland over England!! And England has had a week rest and Ol Man Roy still isn't sure what his best 11 is?:thumbsdown:
     
  22. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know there's some who don't like the 24 team format, but I LOVE IT!! And about the 3rd place wild cards, let's not forget that at the last two 24 team World Cups, two 3rd place teams made it to the Final!!
     
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  23. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Shaqiri a super goal!! But Poland has been playing too defensive
     
  24. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Penalties! !
     

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