Okay, as promised I recruited some questions/issues/topics from posters in in the KCT, v1 and am using these to seed discussion in the KCT, v2. This is, basically, an attempt to generate some continuity of discussion while leaving behind some of the accreted grouchiness. I'm going to leave this thread closed for a bit, while you folks have a chance to look at it and, if you want, suggest changes to the topic headings and/or add new questions. Edit: It would be nice if I told you how to make suggestions when the thread is closed, wouldn't it? Just quote this post in v. 1. Team Management/Player Selection Did the underwhelming four points gained at the end of last month change anything about the atmosphere in the locker room as illuminated by the Straus article? What does he do when the German players return from injury? Does he put them back in the lineup over guys like Besler who performed well in their absence? How will the Donovan situation be handled? Does JK hold a grudge? Does Landon not respect JK? I think a big question is whether he can find any creativity to replace Donovan or whether Donovan returns top Nat form. Wasn't that always going to be the biggest question after the last world cup without respect to who is coach? Donovan: If he returns to great form what does JK do with him? The next phase of the Hex/Time to make a change? How confident should we be that he'll handle the June qualifiers well, after what we saw in the "mini-tournament" at the same time last year? Offensive Woes/Not enough goals scored How do we create offense? Any of it against any team? The current situation is unacceptable, especially when the coach (a former international striker) promised a more exciting and stylish form of play. Defense: Are we in transition? Is Klinsmann managing the personnel well? The defense: Who is it? Is the CB transition really underway, or were the March Qualifiers an injury-forced exception? Are Gonzo and Besler for real? What is Cameron's role going forward. Do any of the old guard still have a shot? Other than Dempsey, who can be counted on to score? Will JK ever figure out how to use Altidore, considering how strong his club performances have been? Where will the attacking creativity come from? Can any attacker threaten an opponent 1v1 or is that too old fashoned? Will Donovan return to a key role and is that enough? Do players like Pontius, Diskerud, Feilhaber, Corona, or maybe even Adu have a role to play? Coaching nuts and bolts I think a big question is whether he can find any creativity to replace Donovan or whether Donovan returns top Nat form. Wasn't that always going to be the biggest question after the last world cup without respect to who is coach? To me the big question is will he end the shielding DM? If he does will he allow the mids to push up some if we are not on the road in Azteca? If we do push up are our CBs savvy enough to anticipate the over the top balls, and either get back or step up and catch them offsides, or we will end up with several 1v1's with the keeper? Early on in Denver it looked as if we might do that and then we got a goal and then a blizzard and so we decided to sit on the lead. In Azteca the mids looked very reluctant to move past the halfway line, understandable in Azteca if you do not want to get rolled up on. I am very curious as to what this summer brings and how Klinsi manages basically two squads at the same time and what comes of all that. The style: There is a forced premium on possession, but it's been hampering the offense. Is there a way to keep more of the ball while still creating chances? And if not, should we play differently? Will there be any committment to some increased wing play from players such as Shea, Gatt, Bealsey, or maybe Gyau or DeLeon? Can Donovan help here? Or will the tweener mids like Zusi and Kljestan or forwards like EJ and Gomez continue to be used as wingers? Is the Dual DM/CM system of the 4-2-3-1 the formation of choice going forward, or will we see the 4-3-3 return? If it is the 4-2-3-1, are Bradley and Jones the clear starters in that setup, with Edu and Williams as the clear reserves? Or is there room for Torres as a possession, ball circulating DM/CM? Aside from, or perhaps interconnected with, the more specific positional issues noted above, in the "Big Picture," will JK be able to get the team to succeed beyond using the conservative circle-the-wagons approach of his biggest results (at Italy and at Azteca twice)? Same as it ever was: is what we are experiencing with Klinsmann just a set of specific versions of these general issues? Is [coach] competent or incompetent? Does [coach] have tactical chops? American vs Foreign coach US-born vs Foreign-born players Should [coach] develop players? Should [coach] have players out of position? Recruiting/cap-tying bi-national players
Dude I beat you by, like, 15 hours. And because the sound of my own voice is lurvely to mine ears, I shall quote myself:
Securing Johansson, the Icelandic-American, is a necessity for this team. If there's any chance that he will play at the friendly vs Belgium, that would be super for the USMNT prospects, I think. Altidore has to be teamed with another speedier forward who scores, and Johansson fits the need. With Donovan back and Dempsey rolling on at least in CL, the offense is before us. How will they do? Well, they can't do worse than the four JK has come up with until then. That doesn't mean that Johansson won't be guilt-tripped by everyone back at home except his mom who seems laissez-faire.
I predict the quarters in 2014 under klinnsy, and another 4 years after that, so that's like what, 6 more years if my calculations are correct.
The four points out of six: changed the atmosphere in the locker room for the better. We are a team in spirit. Personnel: JK started his tenure already having decided more or less what his squad would consist of which became a distraction for him and his greatest hindrance. Unfortunately, this obsession will continue to make a fool of this otherwise smart man. There is no Donovan problem. The creativity problem is misconstrued because it becomes a search for the white knight on horseback. Try to think on terms of 5 defenders who can shut down the opponent and 5 attackers who can possess, assist, score, play all over the field. We have to stop thinking in terms of Lord Altidore waiting for his butler to serve him tea. There is usually room for one cf on a team who does little but wait for the ball and put it in the net but there is not room for more than one and he better put it in the net. JK's handling of june quali's will be decided by whom he calls up and who shows up. JK has hinted he is happy with our defence and unhappy with the offence. He would have to be an idiot to get so distracted that he screws up the defence. I hope we see 5 new offensive players on the pitch for the GC but I am ready for another January camp fiasco.
I don't accept the premise that 4 points from a home win plus a tie in Mex City are underwhelming. That result in the final round would have been great in any prior decade in US soccer and maybe many folks finding it underwhelming speaks volumes for how many folks bought into US soccer's hype and expected JK to be a wunderdirecteur, rather than what he is: a big name, relatively inexperienced coach with enough success to raise eyebrows and some interesting approaches to how US soccer (top to bottom) can improve. IMHO the ten ton elephant in the corner is the fact some key players need to step it up. Exactly what great chemistry would Donovan mess up by being on this roster? He's arguably one of the 5 greatest US soccer players ever and at the very least an off the bench factor. He needs to GET HIMSELF in top shape and JK needs to put him on the roster.
Well, he's always talked of long-term plans. So it seems he'd be happy staying for "as long as necessary," at probably the same pay grade, as coach. That is, an amount no one else in the planet would even dream of paying him. Of course it makes sense from his point of view. But perhaps coaching is not the next level for him. It may be taking care of youth development. Perhaps the genius of Klinsmann may be used better in that area, where it's needed more than ever after the u17 failure.
No, no, no...he is doing us a favor by staying on at the same pay. I'm sure he has offers every week for much, much more, and he just wants to make it work here. Sainthood isn't far away for a guy who sacrifices like he does.
I don't believe any rational poster would say that 4 points from those 2 matches were underwhelming. What is disappointing to me was 0 points from the first match v Honduras. I expected 1 or 3 points from the Honduras match and certainly if the coaching staff had made better decisions during that match we could had secured 3 or 1.
Jesus, I have to agree with HHF. 4 of 9 is probably where most of us would have pegged us at this point. JK just happened to do it the hard way. Getting the point in Azteca has been a historical no-go, he got it with zero offense. But dropping the point in a Central American country not called Costa Rica is also something we haven't done recently. In hindsight, yes losing that one point is disappointing considering we had a lead.
3 games, 2 shots on goal. 1 additional shot vs. Canada in January. Yes, underwhelming is a good word. For you, we can call it a spectacular success.
Hey, I just quoted the questions as they were presented. I'm thrilled with 4 pts since I was afraid we were heading for nothing.
Only in this thread was 3 points against Costa Rica and 1 at Mexico not a success. Carry on, bitch brigade.
We actually had tied in Mexico and beaten Costa Rica in qualifiers before . . Winning our first (and only) qualifier ever at Mateo Flores . . It was hard to believe the complainers (much harsher and more weird in their criticism) following that historic win. And this thread, of course, is not about Bradley. He's coaching in Egypt, now. It's ironic that the same stuff (or even worse) that you criticized JK's predecessor for, somehow Klinsmann gets a pass for, at 5X the salary. What is the distinction or the difference?
I've criticized Klinsmann plenty, when I bother posting these days. But unlike this thread, I can understand there are no backup Donovan's and bitching about style in a snow storm and away at Azteca is just that. Bitching. And it's even weirder that you and your circle jerk buddies bitched about results before, and are bitching about style now. And by weird, I mean comical. Because as much as you think that 4 year old zinger bothers me, it doesn't. This thread and its participants have marginalized themselves to the point they can't be taken seriously. As for being serious, I'd gladly take back some of my criticism of Bradley. I've apologized to him directly and thanked him for his work. Carry on, bitch brigade.
didn't like the defense he picked in Denver and obv Mo fouled that dude but holy smokes that point in Azteca was better than the friendly win, imo would like to see us bring it home with Dempsey Altidore Beasley Donovan Jones Chandler Johnson Edu Besler Cameron Howard Bradley for Altidore against teams whose midfielders we need to choke such as good passers or World Cup group alpha from whom we want a point national teams aren't as well organized as club teams so it seems, to me, that speed on the flanks is a commodity way too hot to short. the easiest lanes for getting behind the other team, the safest places to lose the ball, the easiest outlets, and the simplest positions from which to move to cover against teams without equivalent wide guys (lots of present day teams) are all on the flanks with so many teams hedging with shielding dmids, being on the wrong side of an overload in the center doesn't get you swarmed (except for against teams like Spain and Germany, all of whose center mids press and pass very zealously, and against those teams we'll REALLY need wide play for any outlet)
The style JK is trying to develop, more possession-oriented attack, may not be ideal for the old guard of players more used to speed and space --proper of the counterattacking style from Klinsmann's predecessors. That may be the reason why the attack has looked anemic so far: when these guys have the ball and keep it, they force the other team to bunker, which means very little space is left for them to combine. In such a case, players that grew up with the possession style have two great tools at their disposal: widening the field, and changing rhythm all of a sudden. Both things require a lot of team chemistry. But also enough brains to relax the pressure and let the rival breathe, move out of their bunker, thus opening spaces. Changing speed from an easy going holding of the ball to a quick series of one-touch passes takes not just team chemistry, but good close control. And players smart enough to figure when it's about to happen, without any external cues, but just because it's the moment when it should happen, the moment when it's logical for it to happen. The Klinsmann model, at least based on what he says, is still quite different from what we're seeing on the field: struggling to score against weaker teams, and beating stronger teams through the usual bunkering. I can understand it as a work in progress, though. This transition period is going ok so far, in great part because of the bad form of other teams in the region. I don't think it's reasonable to expect older (25+) players to learn the tricks needed to break bunkers once the possession-oriented style is accomplished. Further: such style cannot be held against stronger rivals with the current pool. And by stronger I don't mean Spain or Argentina, but Honduras and Costa Rica. So far, the team has dominated possession only against Caribbean minnows. I wouldn't blame it on JK though. It's a matter of player development. For whatever reason, American players have always had a heck of a time controlling the ball in tights spaces and thinking on their toes. To get the system working, all 11 players must be capable of holding the ball --even when challenged by very good players. It's enough for one guy in the team to be a weak link, for the system to stop working. What bothers me about JK is that he's selling us a house whose foundation is not even set. He's talking about the style he wants to implement, but he knows dang well he does not have the adult players for it. So he's at odds with his primary purpose, which is to develop a system that works with what we already got, and not with the hypothetical players from the 2018 or 2022 generations.
Beasley will offer nothing on offense. He was brought in by JK for defense. Bradley will always start in CM and be paired with Jones. Why does Chandler play fullback for Nurnberg and not RM? Dolo will be at RB if healthy. Is Edu a better defender than Gonzo, Cameron or even Boca? Eventually JK will use his FBs to unlock the opponents' defense but before that he has to get two forwards that can score with service: Altidore and Johansson. To lose the Icelandic-American would be far worse than losing the guys that are now playing for the Serbian and Italian national teams. I think one of the reasons the admittedly infrequent combo of Chandler and Fabian hasn't done what is expected --- is because they are overrated by the fans. They just aren't that great.