The KFA Reformation

Discussion in 'Korea' started by killaorca, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    back then we played like this but didn't drop points against minnows...then again we had a better squad.
    Ulsan isn't as good as they used to be, I'm sure you'll understand ;)
     
  2. Marco91

    Marco91 Member+

    Mar 12, 2016
    At home
    Club:
    Dijon FCO
    Yeah i was referring to what i'm seeing this year.
     
  3. HiTaegukWarrior

    Aug 23, 2012
    Maryland
    Club:
    FC Seoul
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    With all due respect, most if not all the people responding to you are saying multiple cameras/better presentation on TV isn't the only thing to address or fix to improve both attendance and TV/streaming viewership - Just unsolicited advice, but this might not be the hill you want to die on, you feel me? You had some valid points to make earlier about trying to incorporate what the KBO has done to make the experience for attendees great, there's a more constructive dialogue in that direction.

    I have to agree with most people on this thread that already pointed out that watching K-League on screen (the only way I can here in the US) is very much a diminished experience due to poor production values - regardless of whether a stadium is visibly full or not (actually I've watched a #of games that had decent attendances, the Pohang Steelers v Sangju Sangmu game looked over 2/3 full, not too shabby for the the steelyard). I think to myself, the action on pitch isn't bad but this is a dismal televised presentation for all the reasons people cited earlier (like lack of replays, multiple angles etc), compared to what the US network NBC is doing with splashy graphics- just spot on production values. NBC is not counting on EPL viewership to overtake NFL attendance, but what they have is a long game approach -the ratings are consistently increasing every season since they outbid the shabbier Fox Soccer Channel about 4 years ago. That time and effort to the detail is paying off. And all this w/out the benefit of Americans going every Sat to White Hart Lane to see Spurs take on LFC. And not every EPL game on pitch is scintillating, but speaking purely from the POV over in the US, the production value on exhibit for a public that is not yet there with jumping on board completely is getting more savvy to soccer thanks in part to what the network is doing week in and week out. As it stands, it's great enough to sustain interest from, say the average US channel-flipper - thus we're seeing higher ratings for both the EPL and the shoddier but steadily improving MLS. We can agree to disagree, but TV production values imho is one of the components that's fairly easy for the K-League and networks to adjust and improve upon. It's one of many areas for K-League to tweak.

    It's probably been mentioned already (or maybe not, I've just glanced thru this thread) but MLS, as imperfect as it is, has benefited tremendously by ditching enormous NFL stadiums over a decade ago and building smaller, sleeker and more appropriately capacity sized stadiums. Easier to fill, atmosphere improved, MLS is building it's brand and seeing a better future ahead (tho they really need relegation/promotion -another topic for another day). By staying with cavernous World Cup stadiums in Korea, which K-League usually struggle to fill for past couple of years, that's a huge factor that takes away from providing a good atmosphere for people to want to come back to. The KBO stadiums like Jamsil baseball stadium in contrast has a capacity size of only 26,000. That's easier to fill, when full = better atmosphere and provides fan participation (or fan distraction - choose yr interpretation). I'd only argue that all this about food and half naked women at KBO games - sure it works for them and the stadium r full -but are people really watching and engaged in the match? I think b/w what the JLeague did from stadium design to building an organically grown support culture as well as the MLS model similarly - both might be better templates for the K-League to delve into. Someone mentioned blue collar support for football - Dortmund's BVB and other towns in Europe has a historic link to it's blue collar manufacturing base. Soccer rose up from the working class in Europe (why Manchester is a footballing power) and I think whoever earlier on the thread mentioned bringing in the companies and their families to the games - I second that - it's a really neat idea to pursue. Ok, I gots to go back to work. Peace out yall.
     
  4. Marco91

    Marco91 Member+

    Mar 12, 2016
    At home
    Club:
    Dijon FCO
    This is not directly related to Korean football but still worth mentioning.

    As some of you probably know, I follow the primera division (Argentina) and their matches are all free to air, without a pay per view system. But has been proposed to create a premium section with more cameras, better quality etc...while the matches will be still free to air with basic cameras. If you want to see a Boca vs River with higher quality and camera work, then you have to pay.
     
  5. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    I think blue collar supporters will only work for some clubs like Ulsan Hyundai because Ulsan is the biggest industrious city in Korea with the world biggest automobile assembly plant and shipyard, and has the second biggest oil refinery.
     
  6. chook90

    chook90 Member+

    South Korea
    Jan 2, 2015
    Al Khor, Qatar
    Club:
    FC Seoul
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    until union guys show up :ninja:
     
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  7. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    No. Cameras are on the bottom of the priority list of discussion points. If there is a million things that the league can improve on, camera angles would be say, the millionth action item.

    And again, my question is: Are K-League's camera angles really poorer than La Liga? Or is it your mind. Is it a nice to have or is it a necessity. You all sound like a bunch of btches that can't get what you want. And if you want a constructive argument, you are more than welcome to analyze La Liga's camera angles versus the K-League's. I am more than game to have a valid debate, rather than some subjective reasoning.


    BRO. It's bad. Don't fool yourself. And you've just answered your own question. The camera seems bad because the action is bad.

    How the fck does the K-League tweak camera angles? Take it up to the broadcasting stations. What does CAMERA ANGLES have anything to do with the KFA or the K-League Assoc?

    But that point aside, I've previously stated: A correlation between presentation and increase in attendance only applies when there is demand. Where there is negative demand, excessive exposure has a negative effect and opens it up for ridicule. And we are in agreement that there is no demand in Korea, correct? So why do you clowns keep dropping US networks as examples? So where is my rebuttal?

    And so has the K-League. Incheon as an example. Still has the lowest attendance rates. Jeonnam and Pohang has the adequate stadiums and was built YEARS before anything in America. And your point is invalid.

    So why does the K-League fail to fill their "cavernous" stadiums? Because of camera angles?

    This is a different argument than camera angles. Are you saying that stadium utilization has bigger impact on attracting more people in the stadiums? Then I am inclined to agree.

    Does it matter? Do Americans actually watch baseball at a MLS match or are they busy standing in line for some stadium nachos.

    So let me get this straight. J-League and MLS have more successful leagues than the K-League. Ok, I agree with that. But you've been arguing motha fcking camera angles. So logically, MLS and J-League have better camera angles?

    Yea, but Korea isn't Europe. What does a blue collar fan base have anything to do with Korea? I thought Korea's blue collars were too busy putting on candle light demonstrations instead of going to soccer games. You see my point?
     
  8. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    Yea good point - but nobody is from Ulsan. Ulsan was a non-existent city merely 40+years ago. Nobody gives a flying fck about Ulsan. Which brings me to a different point - hometown support means NOTHING in Korea.
     
  9. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    #184 AmoebaCulture, Aug 31, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
    So why can't we do this? Sounds like a reasonable revenue stream.






    But will Koreans pay? Are camera angles really that much of a game changer for Koreans to open up their wallets? I don't think so. If you're telling me that Koreans are willing to pay, then I will admit cameras are important.
     
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  10. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    The union guys aren't in Ulsan. They're trying to march into the Blue House. But when the police show up, they act confused. LOL.
     
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  11. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    It won't be about hometown support, it'll be about finding their target demography. For Ulsan Hyundai they should be targeting Hyundai employees in Ulsan because there are a lot of them. The football club UHFC should try to work with the Hyundai conglomerate to encourage these blue collar workers to go to their football games somehow (don't ask me how, I'm not an expert).

    Finding the target demography is key, it can be used to create a cultural identity for the team which we were discussing previously. This cultural identity will vary among the teams. My example of Ulsan Hyundai FC/Hyundai blue collar workers is just one example. Another example I can give is Goyang Zaicro FC. Goyang Zaicro used to be called Ansan Hallelujah FC but when they relocated they took out the "Hallelujah" because they wanted to feel more secular and inclusive. They also said they wanted to be seen more of an Goyang team than a Christian team. I was like dafuq??? No one in Goyang care about some shitty ass team playing in the second division. Instead I thought that they should just keep their name "Hallelujah and played the shit out of their religion. This will give them an identity and they can target Christians from that region. Just persuade these zealot church goers to come to the game and help evangelise the word of God through supporting this team and singing some hymns. But instead they changed it to Goyang Hi FC...

    Still I kind of hope Goyang goes back to being a Christian team and hopefully there can be a Buddhist team and we can finally have our own Old Firm.
     
  12. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
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  13. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    Yes. So more buzz words like target demographics. This is much more of a meaningful marketing conversation than cameras. But in reality, the target demographic should be women in the mid 20's, like anything else in the country.
     
  14. HiTaegukWarrior

    Aug 23, 2012
    Maryland
    Club:
    FC Seoul
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    And I see the rest of your refutations is looking rather groundhog day-ish -it is what it is but I'm outta time, will be awhile before I can return. enjoy the reformation topic thread and for more unsolicited advice: I encourage you to be constructive when conversing about in BSK. Many can or could get behind what you say on some of your reformation points, but you're spending way too much time & capital on the camera angle thing. Let's move on from that man: I hope this can be the final verdict: cameras /multiple angles - most think it is important to improving image and marketing of K-League around the world. AC doesn't. Done, move on. If you keep carrying on -that'll be a shame b/c that can really suck the oxygen out of what is an important topic. if you think that's an attack on you, relax - it's not. Give and take, that's all i'm saying. Peace.
     
  15. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    And everyone else is wrong. You can't market a product with the sexiest camera angles when there's only 300 people at the stadium.


    Bye.
     
  16. killaorca

    killaorca Red Card

    AFC Ajax
    May 11, 2010
    Pacific Ocean
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
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  17. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm surprised people say soccer's not very popular in Korea. During elementary school there were a lot of Koreans and they were almost all obsessed with soccer. I remember they would want to play games of Koreans vs. everyone else and they would usually win!
     
  18. Marco91

    Marco91 Member+

    Mar 12, 2016
    At home
    Club:
    Dijon FCO
    I would love to see some match in Seoul more than any stadium in korea.
     
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  19. chook90

    chook90 Member+

    South Korea
    Jan 2, 2015
    Al Khor, Qatar
    Club:
    FC Seoul
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Probably plastic band-wagoners reacting to 2002 WC.

    Edit: I understand many supporters start out as "plastics". No intention to ostracize people.
     
  20. Marco91

    Marco91 Member+

    Mar 12, 2016
    At home
    Club:
    Dijon FCO
    I wonder how many of them are still following the KNT after 2002. I mean koreans, not foreigners.
     
  21. chook90

    chook90 Member+

    South Korea
    Jan 2, 2015
    Al Khor, Qatar
    Club:
    FC Seoul
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    A great majority follow KNT during the summer every 4 years tho....:ninja:
     
  22. Marco91

    Marco91 Member+

    Mar 12, 2016
    At home
    Club:
    Dijon FCO
    Thinking is always easter. :rolleyes:
     
  23. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would have only been four in 2002. But they did know about the semifinal run. Some of them moved back to Korea (Anyang) and I tried to message them on Facebook asking what it was like there during the World Cup in 2014, but I didn't get a response. Maybe it was too depressing due to the performance.
     
  24. bvbnz

    bvbnz New Member

    Aug 22, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Hey I just came back to see if there's any progress to this "reform discussion".

    Seems like there isn't any. Just more name calling and stupidity displayed by this guy.

    Trust me, when they offer better content on tv (the most powerful form of media in Korea), there will be more crowd in the stands.

    As for you amoeba, are you on Twitter? I would love to discuss more with you there as i hardly use this forum.

    I disagree with everything you had to say about this topic, but I won't stoop down to your level and call someone a gook or whatever. :)

    I just think that you're misunderstood and frustrated. Find me on Twitter! My handle is @6thofjun
     
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  25. bvbnz

    bvbnz New Member

    Aug 22, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    No I don't post here (I only posted because someone kindly asked to share our thoughts on Twitter)
     

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