How are their revenues? I ask because, you know, attendance is the only reason to build a stadium and such. Where are these guys? I've not seen them in this debate. Please don't make up things and insert them into the discussion. yeah, they have a 'nice little story' going on there. But, you're hanging the hat on a handful of games worth of attendance. I posted a clip from a regular season game this year and .... uh yeah.
The game is strong there. I know as I lived there for a year n a half. It was easy to get into pick up soccer games all around that town. And this was in the mid 90's. I desire nothing but success for Chattanooga FC and y'alls team! VAMOS CELESTES!!! Thanks for the link to that article from July of that 1997 season! "Early in the second half Hurricane midfielder Milton Bastidas"---That is actually Dr. Milton Bastidas, our long time team captain. Being captain all the way up to our last season in 2001 when I was Asst. GM. I went from hincha in the stands with a few hundred other people there in the late 90's to AGM in 2000-2001. Our club folded due to the economic downturn following 9/11. HHFC was the longest running outdoor team until our Houston Dynamo made it to season 7. And yet even our local media like Glenn Davis neglect to make mention of all this when discussing how far the sport has grown in Gulf Coast Texas. Milton was one of the finest footballers I have ever known. Both as a skilled central mid and overall genuine class human being. I have watched some of the San Antonio matches and some other NASL and USL action over the last few seasons. I'd say it is hit or miss as on some nights I can see where the old South Central teams were better at all aspects of the sport but on other nights these modern teams look to play a more kick n run type of soccer and implore more direct type of players, more cross pollination of type of players. Our old teams had clubs that really saw owners field teams that matched their philosophy on the type of player they wanted in their clubs' colors. Our old HHFC was very Latino for example. Highly technical, calm on the ball, play on the ground outta the back. Not to many American clubs do this as often teams without a #10 at the USL and NASL level resort to that direct, long ball, flighted ball outta the back. Shit I cannot stand. Witnessing a centerback hoof the ball up field bypassing middies. We also have the USPL here in Texas and one of our old HHFC players, an Irishman, resurrected the Hurricanes name all be it with Celtic FC like green hoops. I told him I get his take on going long on the green hoops but our old kit was a la Boca Jrs with blue n gold so even I cannot get with the green hoops as that is not what my old cleat bag and other gear has. Then there is the small matter of our Dynamo and my devotion to that team. A team that I did not want! A team that I did not want to move from their loyal fans n supporters. But I knew as the old AGM from our Hurricanes that our city, as far as pro outdoor soccer goes, Houston had one last shot and we could not afford another failure. Certainly since this was now MLS in our town. As my avatar speaks of, the new Dynamo players went nuts for how surprisingly diverse Houston is, for our very soccer savvy people and for our support in the stands. ETERNO BI-CAMPEON!!! 2006 n 2007!!!
Never lived there, but know there's a core of support, and IMO where there is a dedicated core fanbase and a local media that gives them respectful coverage, there is the chance that the general public can embrace them the same way our fans in Tulsa decades ago embraced the Roughnecks. Yeah, I was living in Chicago and didn't really know much about the "cover band" Tulsa Roughnecks. Just that they played lower level at high school football stadiums. That's where I fear MLS will try to turn lower division soccer into their own bland and uncreative reserve league(s). Soccer is, first and foremost, a team sport. You can't just plug in prospects who are only there to shine individually to get to the next level. The best teams keep their nucleus and develop their style year over year... This isn't farm club baseball. That's funny. From your previous posts and screen name, I honestly thought I was talking to Brendan. I'm proud of the progress made by my Tulsa Athletics, who in 2013 were in a 4-team division with three other new teams, two of them the Houston Hurricanes and Regals FC. I think Brendan ultimately felt the NPSL misrepresented themselves, so I guess they're doing their TPSL thing. Regals FC were back in the NPSL this past season, and I believe Little Rock and Shreveport are joining the conference for next season. I'm having the same misgivings about the new USL team calling itself Tulsa Roughnecks FC. They play in an amenity-filled yet downsized downtown baseball specific stadium within walking distance of my house. Owned by two groups (Tulsa Drillers and Energy FC) with a great deal of potential for conflict of interest IMHO. And yet, they have no issue with laying full claim to the legacy of the old Roughnecks...
Problem is, the "soccer ladder" is missing several rungs IMO and that aspect of the situation seems to be getting worse, not better. You're looking at a USL that is now asking for upwards of $5mil to buy into that league... I remember the price not so long ago at less than $250k. Compare that to Chattanooga FC's annual budget... don't know exactly what that would be, unlikely any lower than $50k and probably no higher than $200k? And then you're looking at more than double the number of matches at a USL D-3 annual budget that's more than TEN TIMES higher? It doesn't mean the club wouldn't like to be playing at a higher level, just that the current setup makes that pretty close to impossible... no problem moving down (ask Dayton) but a high mountain to scale going up (ask Austin). And I think that's sad, because here's a club in Chattanooga that has a record of dominance and a home ground complete with local interest that should easily satisfy any qualifications to be "promoted" to the next level of play. I think they've earned their "USL territorial rights" without having to pay an exorbitant fee for what they already have... It'd be a good thing for soccer in this country if the talks between NPSL and NASL eventually result in a reasonable and economical D-3 where the more successful clubs in NPSL (or PDL for that matter) could move up to... maybe an 18 to 24 game season ending in August to accommodate a few better amateur clubs (wish NCAA players could play alongside pros-- hypocritical of NCAA that this isn't an option). The only current option where Pro/Rel viably makes any sense is either between future USL D-2 and D-3 clubs or between USL and NASL clubs.
What if it doesn't? It doesn't for everybody. "Remember, *I'M* the real victim here, you guys!" You use precisely the tactics you claim are used against you and then back off by saying, "Hey, I'm just talkin' here, guys. I just think it would be really nice and useful and pleasant if we had promotion and relegation, that's all, I'm not militant about it at all." You think you see how it "could have benefits here in the states." Yet you cover your ears and say "La la la la la la la I am not listening to you" when it is pointed out to you (again and again and again and again) how and why it doesn't make sense now, or for the foreseeable future. I mean, seriously, goldfish have longer memories than you do. We don't point these things out to you because we don't like you or because we're big blue meanies or because we're paid by MLS or because the status quo does us any particular good at all. We point the economic realities out to you because they're reality. You choose to ignore them. And you have from the beginning. You constantly do the rhetorical equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue, folding your arms and kicking your legs and crying because you have been told you can't have a pony. Ponies are nice. They're adorable. Some kids in other countries have ponies. But you can't have a pony because we live in a condo, Jeff. It's not reasonable to expect that you could have a pony. And the constant (and it is constant) whining and insistence that you're a victim despite being (in your mind) on the right side of history is what people are on about when it comes to you anymore. We've moved past your stance on what you think would be neato because it works really well in other countries. You've lost that one. It's not happening for you. You can have all the meetups you want and join with the Plane Guy and Deacon and Ted and whatever other crazy-ass non-stakeholder zealots there are out there and form working groups and tweet incessantly and write open letters to Garber and anybody else who will listen from now until Doomsday. But you're not getting your way. And here's why: because it makes no financial sense. And that's how things work in this country. Does that suck in a lot of ways and for a lot of reasons? Yes. Yes, it does. You can't jump off the roof and flap your arms and fly because that's now how it works. And it makes absolutely no financial sense for promotion and relegation in this country at the present time (maybe not for a long time, if ever). MLS isn't going to kick the Chicago market to the curb for Ottawa or the Cosmos and the NASL isn't going to swap Rochester for Jacksonville. And Chattanooga can't afford to go pro because it's expensive to go pro. I'm sorry that this isn't England, where every town has a club. But this is America, and that simply doesn't happen here. It's not likely to happen. Our country doesn't work that way. No one's a victim because of that. That's just how it is.
Bull mularkey, Kenn. Practically every g*d d***ed post I've written over the past three years that you've ever responded to, has been your typical I-know-everything-you-know-nothing ego-driven drivel. You've been a dick to me (and several other posters who don't kiss your tired ass) FOR YEARS!!! I finally got sick of it Kenn... I came to the conclusion awhile ago that you're simply incapable of having a decent discussion with me and several others because we refuse to tell you how smart you are... You've morphed into one of the worst excuses for a soccer fan I've ever read on an internet site. You seem to have little clue how big of a holier-than-thou intellectual curmudgeon you've become over the years, Kenn. You pretend you're an expert, pick on outspoken fans, target them, pretend you're an expert, systematically belittle their views, call them names (prole/prawn/myopic fanboy), pretend you're an expert, and then go back to your scholarly attendance database. You don't know the difference between being enthusiastic/passionate and being "militant." I'm posting heartfelt views on the appropriately named thread on a forum for American soccer fans. I'm admittedly enthusiastic, outspoken, and passionate about my views, which is not the same as being a militant... but here in bigsoccer world, especially if you'd really like to see pro/rel someday in this country, any substantial fan passion is seen as sacrilege to you and the rest of the bigsoccer anti-Pro/Rel brigade who seem ever intent on browbeating and ridiculing anyone and everyone who disagrees with your never-gonna-happen-so-just-shut-up-about-it dogma. You and your side has been airing the same We-know-all-the-facts-and-anyone-who-disagrees-with-us-doesn't-know-jack-over-s**t for years now... and years... it's become pedantic. And I listened... for years. But I see the current state of major college and minor league soccer... and I changed my mind from not commenting on something that hasn't been worth my time to agreeing it's a worthy long-term goal... came to that well-informed conclusion about a year and a half ago. Will it be the end of the world if there is never Pro/Rel at any level in America? No. I have EVERY RIGHT to remind people on an appropriate thread why I think an Americanized Pro/Rel is a desirable goal (preferable to a farm club system) and that it can offer some real benefits... My views are routinely buried and mischaracterized by the same group of about 6-10 people who will for the foreseeable future have a helluva lot more time on their hands to post, argue, and debate ad nauseam than I ever will. So responding to the same sh*t they (and you) have been shoveling for years is little more than a distraction, and I will continue to post my views... if you don't like them, don't post... or put me on ignore. God knows I've done that with you and a few of the other serial anti-Pro/Rel posters... for months at a time. I stopped reading here... That's vainly dismissive of you yet highly ironic, Kenn, considering how you've also accused me of living in the past. Seriously Kenn, I have some pretty accurate memories of when I worked for Indianapolis Opera back in the late 1990's while you were working for the Indiana Blast... memories of looking in vain for news of your so-called professional soccer team playing at Kuntz Stadium before eventually finding a score in fine print on page E-11 of the Indy News sports section... This is 2015, and I'm looking forward to supporting a gritty NPSL club in my hometown that desperately wants to get past our new rivals in Wichita FC and our regional nemesis Chattanooga FC to play for some serious hardware... and if you ever wanted to bury the hatchet, I could probably land ya a deal on an NPSL club to play at Lane Tech on the northside of Chicago with a supporters march every game day from The Globe. That is, if you'd like to put your money where your mouth is. Merry Christmas... from the guy with memories longer than those of a goldfish... here's a present I thought a guy like you would appreciate...
Aren't we supposed to save the martyrdom for Easter? I mean, that's assuming most of us are Christians, practicing or lapsed.
Martyrdom is a year round hobby for pro/rel zealots and jihadists. Yes, that was a low blow, but that warranted the joke.
If you think there is nothing of substance posted on this thread, will you please leave? Or is that too much to ask? STATEMENT OF PURPOSE: I started this thread. It is located in what I feel is an appropriate forum/subforum. As someone who's posted on bigsoccer for well over 15 years, I have the ability to start a thread if I feel it is appropriate. If you don't like the premise of the thread, you don't have to post. Spam, whether in the form of an inexplicably large picture of orangutangs or a picture of a dog spouting random jibberish, is unwelcome and will be reported. Certainly weighing that option, all things considered.
I don't believe that I am advertising anything, so your suggestive bolding seems superfluous. I find undue earnestness and the tripling of the earnestness with each response that does not show the same level of same to be rather amusing.
OMG. What a pompous reply. Once again, this thread needs to be cleaned up so those of us who seriously would like to have a discussion can do so without snarky quips from the peanut gallery. Certainly weighing that option, all things considered.