The Jurgen Klinsmann's coaching Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bungadiri, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006

    As a fan that I believe US Soccer wants to keep this is it for me in a nutshell....The dismal showings piled up to critical mass, the "whoa look at what genius I am with a new formation that Mexico has just run all over, whoa look at what Wondo and Zardes look like against Argentina!!!!"

    Change for change sake may not be fair or right but its what happens to coaches and JK got more rope than he deserved.
     
    Mahtzo1 and TimB4Last repped this.
  2. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Very true (bolded). That being said, I would be surprised if Howard is the only player on the team that feels some players are not putting in full effort and sometimes perception is just as important as reality. If Howard and a significant group, believe some players are not doing what they should (rightly or wrongly), that is a problem.

    there are two potential"passion" problems:
    1. the lack of passion (if accurate)
    2. the perception of a lack of passion (regardless of whether it actually exists)
     
  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Which enhances JJ's role as a mediator between both groups.

    IMO, Klinsmann owed keeping his job 5.3 years not just to Dempsey, but also to Jones.
     
  4. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol, although this is as good a theory as any, my own hunch is that somehow there must have been a near perfect alignment of the planets and stars.

    I look forward to hearing some inside analysis, when it comes out in a couple of years.
     
    Suyuntuy repped this.
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fafa Picault was tethered to the bench for last place 2. Bundesliga team St. Pauli and now is TRIALING in MLS, the league that Klinsmann acted like was inferior to ones such as the 2. Bundesliga. This after Picault transferred from NASL as a 20-something vet to the 2. BL.

    Is that the biggest foreseeable reach in player selection for Klinsmann, or was it another one?

    Other candidates would be:

    Caleb Stanko - part-time player for last place Swiss Super League team.

    Mix Diskerud - not playing anymore for NYCFC. The issue was how much he was leaned on by Jurgen.

    Chris Wondolowski - again, how much he was leaned on, then kept returning even when he proved to suck.

    Michael Orozco - off and on in Mexico, struggled in MLS, again issue is frequency not that he was capped at all.

    Timothy Chandler - certainly had the pedigree, but continued to fail, and kept being brought back.

    Brad Davis - the fact he played significant minutes in a World Cup in 2014 (and Donovan didn't, lol)

    Alan Gordon - bench player for the Galaxy getting key minutes and roster spots

    Miguel Ibarra - a few caps and significant rosters out of NASL. Subsequently didn't really play in Mexico.

    hm - Kiesewetter, J. Morales, Beckerman (over-usage), Evans (over-usage), Corona (over-usage), Alvarado (usage), Vincent, Green (timing)
     
  6. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Alan Gordon and Brad Evans both were used in qualifying and did in fact help us qualify for the World Cup.

    They are both the type of player you know are going to bust their ass and have enough talent where they can make that positive difference in a few key moments during gritty qualifying games in CONCACAF.

    Do not simply dismiss those types of players.
     
  7. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are other tall guys cf's who can go up and win an aerial battle who I think have better ability, like Bjorn Johnsen for example in this day and age. Sapong is a better player and target man. Gordon was still being called up at 35.

    Evans is a rotational player for Seattle and very limited. He was far from ideal as a defender and going forward. All you can say about him is he played within himself, smart. But he was over-used and there are better options. Lichaj jumps off the page in that regard.

    And I listed 16 players. Don't simply dismiss the question and concept because of 2 players.
     
  8. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Sapong is not better than Alan Gordon at the role Gordon was used as. Gordon is a beast and I have a lot of respect for his game and ability to be a solid role player. That doesn't mean he is still a good option as he ages.

    I am stating that Evans and Gordon both helped us qualify. They both literally came up big in a few key moments to help us win games in qualifying.

    You need these gritty type of players who are intimate with the region at times. I can't speak to others on your list.

    But these two were good picks to use during qualifying.

    And Gordon would have been a great backup for Jozzy. Although I would have preferred EJ. For the world cup.

    Gordon doesn't have to be some awesome player, just perform his role well. And he does that very well. It's a team game. Sometimes role players are the ones that push the team further rather than the stars.
     
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  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Sapong is 6'1 with Gordon being 6'3. Johnsen is 6'5. So quite gigantic guy
     
  10. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Check out the favorable spin on Klinsi's Wikipedia page . . .

    2018 World Cup qualificationEdit
    The U.S. notched a 1–0 win over Czech Republic to open the new 2018 World Cup cycle on 3 September, their first ever win over the Czechs.[citation needed] On 5 June 2015, Klinsmann guided the U.S. to a dramatic 4–3 win over the Oranje in a friendly in Amsterdam and another friendly victory over Germany five days later.[51]

    The United States men's national team entered the final stage of the 2018 World Cup qualifying cycle, known as the "Hexagonal", in November 2016 having compiled an outstanding record for the year up to that point of 12 wins, four losses, and one draw. Klinsmann had continued to evolve the team by bringing in emerging young players such as Christian Pulisic, a teenager who had earned his way into Borussia Dortmund's starting lineup, Jordan Morris, 2016 MLS Rookie of the Year, and Gyasi Zardes, forward for the Los Angeles Galaxy. The luck of the qualifying draw saw the United States men's national team face the two highest ranking CONCACAF teams, Mexico and Costa Rica, to begin the Hexagonal. Despite losing these two matches, the United States men's national team still had eight matches and a potential 24 points available to qualify for the 2018 World Cup. Historically, only 15 points have been needed to qualify and Mexico qualified for the 2014 World Cuphaving earned only 11 points in the Hexagonal.

    Nevertheless, U.S. Soccer Federation officials removed Klinsmann as the U.S. men's national team manager on 21 November 2016, replacing him with Bruce Arena, who had been previously dismissed as U.S. men's national team coach after his team failed to move beyond the group state of the 2006 World Cup.
     
  11. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Perhaps Jonathan still has too much free time on his hands.
     
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  12. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not like he's a physics major at Berkeley. He's got plenty of time to Man the Barricades in the height of Berkeley fashion.
     
  13. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amazing news, if true, I might have to get some popcorn . . .

    http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/us...vid-wagner-bayer-leverkusen-manager-shortlist

    http://www.espnfc.com/bayer-leverku...n-a-contender-for-bayer-leverkusen-job-report

    For Klinsmann it would be a chance at redemption in the Bundesliga after his managerial tenure with Bayern Munich lasted less than a year. His time in Munich was marked by criticism from players over tactics and a culture clash when Klinsmann began implementing changes to the club’s training regimen.

    David Wagner has had success recently in England’s second division with Huddersfield Town. Currently the team sits in third place in the EFL Championship table and if form holds it would have a chance to be promoted to the Premier League.
     
  14. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will Wagner ride the Valkyries to snatch the Ring of the Leverkusen from Jurgen Siegmund? ....;)
     
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  15. Pedro Rondon H de Sá

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jan 13, 2014
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zusi as right back? I think the Klinsmann thing is contagious.
     
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  16. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hey, the rest of it is working out. It took Arena all of one game that counted to return the mentality of the team and return back to our strengths. Im hoping when Yedlin is back and healthy the Zusi thing is a moot point. I dont want it to be Arena's Ricardo Clark.
     
  17. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Klinsey could still have the last laugh when Arena doesnt get out of (a perhaps weaker) group in 2018
     
  18. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Klinsi, 0-2 in the group, 0 goals scored, 6 allowed.

    Arena, 1-0 in the group, 6 goals scored, 0 allowed.
     
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  19. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Member

    Jun 18, 2002
    ATX
    Don't get me wrong - I'm pleased with the result of this match.

    I just wish we could get back to Klinsmann's more proactive attacking brand of soccer.
     
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  20. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Germany - WC Winner 2014
    Portugal - Euro Winner 2016
    Ghana - only team not to lose against Germany in 2014

    Honduras - Concacaf cannonfodder
     
  21. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    In 2014, Portugal was nowhere near 2016 and Ghana wasn't as good as previous WC teams.

    Klinsmann deserves credit, but that was not the same team that won the Euros and Ghana looked much improved the next year in ACON.
     
  22. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Thats fair enough. The said teams also wont be the same next year in Russia.
     
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  23. Soccer888

    Soccer888 Red Card

    Mar 28, 2011
    Yeah but that was the year of beast man Jermaine Jones..
     
  24. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :D you win so hard, thank you
     
  25. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be the perception maybe, but not reality.

    We always get out of group outside Europe. Never inside Europe. This WC will be played in Europe, the last one was outside in Brazil. In the modern era: 4-0 outside Europe, 0-3 inside Europe. On Klinsmann's trajectory, he was not getting out of the group in the next WC, he wasn't even making it. Getting out of the group the previous time was also flattering. If he's consistent, it's not the result but how you play. We played poorly as reflected by setting all-time record lows in shots and possession. Howard saved his butt against Belgium especially from that being a downright embarrassment, and to a lesser extent against Germany and Ghana. The Ghana win was a 2-1 smash and grab. The only game of the tournament the U.S. didn't actually play poorly in relative to standard was Portugal.

    The World Cup also constitutes one sample of 3-5 games. It's a small sample. In the bigger sample, Klinsmann had 7 good wins vs. 14 bad losses in meaningful a-team competitive matches, per Elo rating changes. Naturally, that paled in comparison to his predecessors, one of them being Bruce. It would be hard for Bruce not to exceed such a low standard in his return. He's already 1 vs. 0 in that regard.

    Of course, Klinsey will get the last laugh in the end regardless, because he's a conman, and his game will work on enough gullible people or those who are predetermined to make the case for him. He'll have shills from the LA Times writing pieces spinning things in his favor, book authors that he's feeding lines to, and sometimes he'll even write on his own behalf. If the U.S. makes a run in the WC, that will be a product of his vision, even if he's not still around, the team plays differently, and the rotations consist of several players he just chose to ignore out of prejudice.
     

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