The Gyasi Zardes thread

I'm going to jump into this "interesting" exchange.

First, IE stated that Jozy and EJ are at similar club levels, each scoring when in Holland and Greece, and that Zardes could achieve such a level, too:

Then BM notes that the comparison is too simplistic, as Jozy's highly productive Dutch league performance surely rates above EJ's short stint in Greece:

Then IE ignores the Dutch vs Greece comparison and moves the goal posts to goals scored in the World Cup, Confed Cup, or Copa:

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Jozy was a top goal scorer for two years in a Dutch League (currently UEFA 9th ranked) that is somewhat better than both the MLS and the Greek league (UEFA 13th ranked). EJ was a solid scorer for half a season in Greece.

I'd say EJ's ceiling is MLS or Greece. He won't produce at a higher level.

I'd say Jozy's level is somewhere above the Dutch League, but below the Premier League (UEFA 2nd ranked). It remains unclear, as he hasn't played in the leagues between #2 and #9. My gut says he could do well in France, using Bedoya's solid performance there as a guide.

As to Zardes, I'm just as interested in seeing him called into the January Camp as anyone. His very good 2014 MLS season has earned him a look. He surely has the talent to exceed EJ's level. It remains to be seen if he can reach Jozy's proven level, but it is far too soon to know if he has a ceiling higher than Jozy's.

 

I think its too early to say whether Zardes has a low ceiling. He's been pretty dominant since he became a starting striker for LA. Remember earlier in the year they had him out wide and got benched after a few games

 

I don't know if he is better, but I think he may be trying harder. JA has never, in my opinion, had a great work ethic. Maybe with some good competition, he will wake up. As far as the other MNT strikers usually mentioned on these threads, none have shown anything recently. The sad thing is I don't think JK is ready to give up on JA just yet. Maybe this will be warranted, but truth be told, I would much rather see a hard-working youngster like Zardes get a chance and bench Altidore.

 

Jozy and EJ have similar NT stats. Jozy is significantly younger(EJ is already 30) and both turned pro early, so one could reasonably conclude Jozy will reach a higher level with the NT. Hopefully he can get with a club team that plays 2 strikers.

Jozy works hard, just not effectively as he makes horrible runs. His anticipation around the area is also horrible. He's a ball to feet striker stuck in a target forward's body. He's a more athletic Kenny Cooper.

 

I agree that Altidore didn't maximize the opportunities he had. Drogba did well as a lone forward but I don't think he was actually better as a lone forward. Henry never really played as a lone forward. He always had partners like Bergkamp and Wiltord. Torres had company. Mullins and Agudelo don't belong in the same breath as these others.

 

I think JA gets a bad rap about his work-ethic because the way he used to play 2 years ago or so, yes, he looked lethargic back then, he has improved quiet a bit, he hold the ball very well, his passing is better on a given day but he continues to have issues with knowing where the ball is going to end up in the attacking end and that is crucial for a CF. A CF that doesn't have a "nose for goal" is a limited player that requires a mistake from the defense to score.

 

The interesting thing is both players started out playing the same style. If you watch videos of Zardes' goals at Bakersfield, he terrorized defenders with his athleticism, making runs out of midfield with the ball at his feet or running onto passes over the top. Zardes seems to have adapted to the target forward game much better than Jozy, which is not to say I think he is currently a better target forward than Jozy. I'd go further and say he might've even have found his calling that position, at least at the MLS level. He's got that Boyd/Wondo-esque tirelessness off-the-ball that which makes him look the part more than Jozy, but who knows how they'll stack up in the end? The first step is seeing if Zardes can produce as an international at the CONCACAF level.

 

Has he ever dominated a game with Donovan and Keane playing?

I think next season with just Keane there will he still produce and also when Keane is not playing will he step up to get these wins?

He's scoring goals and that's great but I would like to see more impact on games ie Donovan.

 

Torres played as lone striker off Gerrard at 'pool.

Altidore can play the positional role, he needs a dynamic partner with whom he can share the load.

 

And yet by the end of this cycle, he'll probably be the 3rd all-time leading scorer for the NT...

 

US Soccer doesn't exactly have an extensive history.

 

That's not really the point, is it? It's hard to reconcile the idea that 'Jozy doesn't have a great nose for goal' with 'Jozy has 23 goals at 72 capss at age 24', and from there it's what? 12 more to surpass both Wynalda and McBride? Does the lack of an extensive history extend to devaluing those two guys' production internationally?

Is the issue that Jozy isn't becoming the Drogba-ish striker he could have been if his development broke right? Even if Jozy stays at this exact level, the guy brings serious value to the starting XI. One need only look at how his absence affected the World Cup to attest to that. He does stuff that nobody in the pool can readily replicate.

Jozy's troubles making the right runs and being a more predatory striker hurt him a lot at the club level, but the guy is productive for the NT.

 

Yeah, that's what has impressed me as much as anything. I've seen too many guys in this league who looked promising-but-really-raw in the way that Zardes has and then only marginally improve from there, or take years to get it right. I can't remember seeing a guy go from 'dumb player' to 'savvy-veteran-looking' in this quick a period of time. It has been noted that he has a good work rate on the field; he must have a good one on the practice pitch too.

 

While I think thats a bit harsh, I think your analysis of how he plays in correct. He is big, strong, and for a player of his size has pretty decent technical ability. This makes him a very effective at holding up the ball and getting others into attack.
But he has poor goal scoring intincts, and just does not get himself into goal scoring positions. Great strikers create goals scoring opportunities for themselves through excellent movement. Jozy seems to just aimlessly float around hoping that his teammates will create a chance for him.
To be fair to Jozy, Its very difficult for strikers to balance playing as a target forward where your job is to take a physical beating holding up the ball alone while also making runs to get into goal scoring positions to score goals, Its why players like Drogba and Diego Costa are so Valuable.

 

It does help he is the only player to get the lion's share at the CF spot.

 

AND THEY'RE OFF!!!!

 

That's a fair point. The position could use some more competition.

 

Alternative theory:
As US Soccer gets better, goal scoring will go up against concacaf and freindlies and whoever is playing cf for USA will score more goals and set records. Jozy came along at a time when we didnt have many options at his position and he rode the right horse. Question: Is Jozy the best jockey for that horse?

Wickham > Jozy > Fletcher

Zardes?> Jozy > Clint Mathis

 

Part of the problem is the lack of experience for college players at a COMPETENT level when they reach pros.

I remember Pancake Flipper swearing up and down that Wenger was in a sweet deal at Montreal. When you look at him play now at Philly it is like a rookie learning the pro game. He wasted 2 years in Montreal and he was already getting old after 4 years of college. We are never challenging at the world cup if we continue to waste our best prospects. One single player coming in and filling a position of need can be absolutely crucial. There are other players struggling in club situations who will never show up on the radar of US Soccer. The theory that nobody can possibly escape the attention of a mega sport like soccer is true in the Bundesliga and Premiere League but decidedly not in MLS.

 

Jozy is still our best forward. That's unfortunately a compliment and an insult at the same time.

 

To be more precise he, imo, tends to float around until the ball gets delivered to his feet at which point he then gets down to business.

Jeff Cunningham, Cooper, Altidore all ball to feet guys. Coop scored 18 in a season at Dallas with Dominic Oduro clearing space for him to operate in. Coop then gets pair with Cunningham with both players' games subsequently suffering.

 

There aren't many accomplished strikers Jozy would need to leap over to be number 3 or whatever. Can Jozy succeed in a big Euro league like a McBride? Jozy has 1 goal in 8 games worth of minutes at the CC and WC. Can he elevate?

 

Well, he'd be leaping over Wynalda and McBride, so...

 

We're at the tail end of the Scoring Midfielder era. During the glory years of Tiki Taka, most goals were scored by attacking mids (central and wide), not forwards.