The Gyasi Zardes thread

The problem with Jozy is that he went the Jozy route instead of going the Gyan route.

Scoring boatloads of goals in a mediocre league would do him a world of good imo...and there are mediocre leagues who would pay him handsomely *cough* MLS *cough*

That's the type of player Jozy is, that's the type of situation that he improves in.

As it pertains to Zardes, I'm not sure, as I haven't seen him play at a higher level yet. I'll just say that the grass is always greener on the other side, and that his development trajectory over the last 12-18 months spent with Bruce has been mighty impressive..

incoming rant not directed at you:

The notion that players need to constantly be playing at higher and higher levels of competition to improve as a player is a fallacy that people don't want to wake up from. It sounds like a great theory, but it's so simplistic that it's almost childish. Every time I read about players who "need" to play at certain levels to develop into better players, I almost instantly disregard that poster's other opinions on the game, because I discount them as living in a black and white world where cliches are the law of the land and thinking analytically about an individual player's situation is forbidden. Cliches like these equate to fact only in the minds of those who perpetuate it as such.

I hope that as a soccer community, that mold of thought is broken soon...like the old notion of "player x isn't even playing for his club, he shouldn't be called up!" has started to fade away over the last couple years in the minds of managers and fans (anybody else notice that?) It wasn't a quick shift, but it's almost like one-by-one managers started waking up and saying, "Hey, you know, player x is still one of my 23 best players and he trains every day, maybe it doesn't matter to the extent I think it does that he isn't playing 90 minutes on the weekend since he also spends 700 minutes in training.."

/rant

 

People forget -- today's MLS is much higher level than Josy at 17.

Much hard to score.

 

Um, no.

 

All I could find was last year, when he was worst in the league:
http://www.sounderatheart.com/2014/3/13/5502718/stats-another-expected-goals-model-for-mls

Now here's the bottom 10 players who significantly missed their expected goal targets: Player 2013 Expected Actual Difference Gyasi Zardes 9.22 4 -5.22 Will Bruin 12.86 8 -4.86 Chris Wondolowski 13.87 10 -3.87 Chad Marshall 3.96 1 -2.96 Fabian Castillo 4.92 2 -2.92 Chris Pontius 3.58 1 -2.58 Omar Gonzalez 3.56 1 -2.56 Bobby Boswell 2.49 0 -2.49 Jairo Arrieta 5.41 3 -2.41 Juan Luis Anangono 4.25 2 -2.25

(As an aside, the fact that Wondo, who a couple years before would probably have been among the best in the league, was third worst last year shows you how random that stat can be in the short run. My guess is that underlying quality takes a long time to out, probably dozens of expected goals to get a decent figure.)

 

Your bias against Altidore is well documented and it shows again here. Neither Zardes nor Jozy are great defenders but, luckily, they are needed to be great defenders. Aerial game? Jozy's video evidence of headed goals for both the national team and his career would show that he is an aerial threat. Dempsey is faster than Jozy and Zardes? Your whole post loses any credibility just based on this statement. It's just not based in this reality.

 

Yeah Jozy is really good. I doubt zardes ever goes to england. I think jozy could have a nice year this year. we shall see.

 

Good thing he's a forward then.

 

True, but....

There is a natural tendency to not be as sharp or confident when picking splinters out of your butt every weekend.

Sometimes that loss of edge can be so minuscule it's not noticeable, but for others, it could be immense. Heck, a twinge, a blister, or life stressors could be just enough to throw a player's game off that much to where someone who was on the fringe might be the better choice on that day.

A lot of times players get called up based on name alone... Not on form. And the guys are professionals, but they are also human.

Point being that it shouldn't automatically knock someone out of contention, but the reasons for including that player should be significantly scrutinized if that player isn't playing every weekend.

End of my rant

 

Cap him before Colombia comes calling

 

I am not at all surprised by Excellency's opinion, given his posting history. Anybody else agree?

 

Good point you bring up here. I interned with White Sox for 2 years and they wanted all top propects to gain 2 experiences before they were considered for MLB call-up.

1) They wanted them to dominate at an "level of play" for most of an year. They thought it was crucial for their development to experience this before tossing them into an higher level of play.

2) They wanted to see how or if they overcome a "slump" in their performance. However, this was only allowed if they had gone through 1). Otherwise they would just demote back to lower level for them to hopefully re-gain their standard of performance. Not an exact science and really depends on player as well on how long they let this go on for if they can't break out of it.

Granted this does not apply for our Kids in Euro academies- I personally feel with the lack of opportunities given to US players in Europe, that for Soccer you want to see 2-3 years of outstanding performance before I start wanting them to see themselves try to challenge themselves with a Euro side.

It happens in Europe like this too, Take 15 yo Norweigan Martin Odegaard, already has played for senior Norway side and Father wants him to go next to Dutch side over a top side where "If he went to some other countries they might take something out of his game..."

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/10/sport/football/martin-odegaard-norway-football/

How many know that Wondo lead the MLS Reserve league in scoring for 2 years in a row before Houston traded him to San Jose?

 

I will break something if Wondolowski is called up in October ahead of him.

 

Good post.

To answer that question, a lot of Houston fans.

 

I like his overall skills and tools. Seems to have a pretty good soccer brain overall with the runs he makes and his decisions with the ball as well.

I wonder how he would look on the left of a 4-3-3, but the consensus of people on here who have probably watched him more than I have seems to be that the left hampers his ability to produce. Still, there are tactical systems in which a left winger is just as prone to be in good goal scoring position as a forward.

LA Galaxy, if I'm not mistaken, play a 4-4-2 most of the time. Even though their wide players are clearly crucial to their overall game, they're not necessarily going to be goal scoring threats, unless good ol' Bruce has tasked them to do so - Mike Magee anybody?

I also recall Juergen trying to use Eddie Johnson as a winger to somewhat mixed effect. He didn't really have the technical ability to out class the kinds of defenders seen at the World Cup, and his only notable tactical improvement was really just that he stopped being offsides all the time. However, he was quick, he was good in the air, and there was a point when he was on a hot streak. It ended up not being worth putting him out there, but a better forward could have made that same idea work. Zardes movement (timing of runs, dropping short to receive, even moving wide to stretch the D) and expertise in passing exchanges (he and that whole LA Squad are masters of the dummy) give him an immediate advantage over guys like EJ, while really only short changing us with regards to pace, which he still has plenty of. He's strong, good in the air, and he's hot right now.

Regardless of where we put, one of the best strikers in history coaches our team and can't ignore this guy, even if he does play in MLS, which I personally believe is a better measuring stick than it's ever been for who can make it on the national team.

 

I've watched this league a lot over the years, and I'm not completely sure that's true. We've brought in a LOT of good attacking talent, especially from South America, over the last few years, while the defenders we've brought in have still been largely in the mold of "MLS 2007" (30+ year olds with good pedigrees, but who are on the decline). In reality, there are more games played now, and roughly the same amount of goals per game that has been the historical average since 2006.

Either way, it's relative. Throw Pele into the modern game and he would be completely dominated by players like Ronaldo and Messi, but that's not what matters. What matters is your production vs. the current competition of the era...that's the only way to make comparisons at two different points in careers.

Now, put them on the same team, vs. the same competition (like NT camp), and you can make a real comparison. That's where opinions are differing I think, in that one camp thinks Jozy would be the clear standout among the two, and the other camp thinks that Zardes has overtaken him already.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, they may well be very close in terms of production based on current levels of play/confidence. Get Jozy scoring again, though...

 

Jozy was performing well for the US in the buildup to the Cup despite the crappy season at Stoke. He does better in two-stiker systems.

 

People say that but then players return putting up sweet numbers. Then there's BWP tearing up the league.

 

EJ played quite well in right midfield. He was horrible on the left however.

 

I think there's more to it than that.

 

Also vibing with those who say that playing at a top level is overrated. For one thing, there's the risk factor of possibly not playing. Ideally, a good player will prove himself in practice and eventually on the field, but we all know that there are coaches and coaching situations like what was experienced by Jozy Altidore at Sunderland where he could also be left out for reasons that are not his own fault.

There's a good number of us who believe that Altidore may have been better off killing it in the Dutch League. Yeah the competition isn't as stiff, but it's ultimately better for a player to be playing well in a worse league than not playing at all for a relegation-threatened team in a better league (I mean seriously, how much more edifying can Sunderlands practices be in comparison to AZ Alkmaar? )

That's not to say there isn't a basis for the opposite argument that competition is a good thing and a player who can and has competed for his spot on a good side is the kind of player that any coach will want. However, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge players because they didn't go such a route is a little silly. Why should a player jeopardize getting consistently played, payed, and enjoying themselves right wherever they are just so they can risk getting ignored by one more coach? There's obviously some grey area there, but the point stands that these players don't have time for philosophy. They have to be practical, too, and Juergen will find that he needs to be as well. Eddie Johnson was an MLS player who kind of washed out of Europe and ended up being VERY vital to this team's World Cup 2014 berth, even though he didn't end up making the final squad. Clearly there's wiggle room when it comes to who needs to play where in order for the team to do well.

 

That is quite true and something I failed to account for, sorry. We can bash the competition as much as we want, but that Panama game in Seattle was some of the best football this team has ever played in a home qualifier. There was also the home qualifier against Guatemala where Johnson was lively and assisted the go ahead goal.

Even funnier was that Johnson was actually slated to play on the left that game, but as soon as he switches over to the right (to Taylor Twellman's notable disbelief ) he made a darting run down the right onto a magnificent lefty through ball by Cherundolo, and slid a daisy cutter across the box that Deuce lifted home.

Just goes to show you the right player in the right position in the right system can be effective. EJ did a bang up job at right midfield.

 

Man, I still miss Dolo. Any chance he will be there (not as player) for Donovan's send off game?

 

Gordon has 3 goals in 7 appearances, some of them subs. There probably is something to the "playing with Keane and Donovan" meme. That said, Zardes still has important strengths that bode well for his future.