The Greatest Players' Seasons of All-Time

Maybe I'm missing something. Is there any particular reason why the likes of Shevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, CR, etc season's aren't in the list while they are even better than some of the names qouted in here?

For example I don't understand how Ronaldo half season is in the list while someone like CR7 broke the all time La Liga record last season, and his "42 goals season" which resulted in ManU winning CL doesn't even qualify him to be on this list. What is the criteria for these "phenomenal seasons"?

 

Eric Cantona should be right up there

 

wondering why allways gerd müllers offiziel ligacup goals are ignored he has scored in season 1972/73....can you explain me??

gerd müller 1972-73 offiziel games: scored 67 goals in 49 games..topscorer bundesliga,topscorer eurochampionscup...

 

11 goals in European Cup of which 7 were against a team from Cyprus.

 

You should change the title into "The Greatest Attacking Players' Seasons of All-Time".

 

If we're talking goalscoring only...

http://www.iffhs.de/?7e4a952bd814fc4d813e8a81be4ac0385fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeecf8a3c0d84411 (catch it before they move it )

 

That's generally true, and something I'd criticize. As an example, to the best of my knowledge, the most phenomenal thing about the late 80s/early 90s Milan was the defense, yet van Basten and Gullit get more credit than Baresi, doesn't make much sense to me. I do think if you ask Milans fans who actually watched more than just highlights and the CL final, you might get a different answer.

But even just following general opinion, you should include at the very least Beckenbauer 73/74 and/or 71/72 into the phenomenal class. He got the Ballon d'Or 1972 (as a defender!), not Cruyff, and you rated Cruyffs 72 as phenomenal...

 

Maybe because Beckenbauer received a bit too much honour. 1971/1972 was by the way Cruyffs best ever season. There he reached his peak. Goalscoring-wise it was one of his most impressive, he was decisive in an the european cup final, in the latter rounds of the competition and in the domestic cup final. Also impressive was that he changed easily between a midfield role, a winger-role and a striker-role (in the 1972 final he had the job to be a strict/pure forward and wait for his chances, which came around; in the semi-final against Benfica, his role was totally different and was often found in midfield, also defending and tackling, while the likes of Keizer and Swart finished the attacks). Also 73/74 at Barcelona was impressive because there he showed his value and completeness in a not so sophisticated, with interchanging positions, system. It was there where the first comparisons with Di Stefano were made.

Of course, he did not win the Ballon d'Or in 1972 because three Germans ranked above him. Arguably, Gunter Netzer deserved the trophy that year, he won the German footballer of the year award for his exploits in euro 72. Therefore, Beckenbauer was not phenomenal in 1972 (let alone 1976; watch the euro games and the EC-final and you see him making some mistakes). To be honest, I think Gunter Netzer was.

 

Baresi was phenomenal in the sense that he was the organiser of a new defensive system at the Italian top level. Baresi commanded the offside trap and leaded a flat back four while Italians were not accustomed to that, at least at the very top level.

 

Maybe it is more likely that you underrate Beckenbauer.

Of course Beckenbauer was phenomenal in 1972.

Did Cruyff make no "mistakes" during his phenomenal seasons 1971-72 and 1973-74? I am pretty sure he did.

 

Ah, I did offend you apparently.

Yes, I do not have him in high esteem. I think it was Gerd Müller who won the prizes. He came closer towards being a phenomenon, he knew when defenders would made a mistake before the defender knew it himself.

As you can see in the first post, the standard for being phenomenal is quite high. It is a no go that two players of the same team are phenomenal. Beckenbauer received the Ballon d'Or and Netzer the German footballer of the year award. In fact, the Ballon d'Or was a very close call too that year, not by a large margin. For me, it is inexplicable that Netzer did not win that year with his 17 goals and 17 assists in the Bundesliga, his great performance against Internazionale and his influence in the euro72 win. His average kicker rating was also not much worse than the one of Beckenbauer (usually defensive players do have an advantage in that department)

We are talking about a defender. Defenders are usually judged by the number of mistakes they make, the amount of bad positionings or lost tackles. In the final against St. Etienne he did make some mistakes, and in semi-final and final of euro76 too. If a defender wants to be phenomenal, then he has to make almost zero mistakes, esp. in the later stages of important tournaments (to come two times behind with two goals is not phenomenal). You know what phenomenal is? The unbeaten run of Milan in the early 90s with only 20 goals conceded in the, by far, strongest league of the world at that time, with indeed Baresi as defensive leader.

 

I just love how people 40 years later think they can have a better picture of the qualities of a player than those who were around back when he was active.

The only thing I see is that the main criteria is to score loads of goals (but they must be fancy goals, of course).

I can't follow your rules. Of course two players of the same team can be phenomenal players.

Beckenbauer was a new kind of defender. Basically an offensive player who opted to play in defense. He had every quality the great offensive players had as well. But additionally he was a great defender, too. He could tackle, he was positioning well, full of vision and creative ideas, excellent at passing long and short range, at shooting and a superb, sublime dribbler. All topped off by an exquisite technique. He was the closest to a complete player you'll ever see.

His playing style however was extravagant and sometimes careless. Beckenbauer was known to often prefer the "classy" way of solving a defensive problem, meaning a casual flick instead of hoofing the ball, a neat dribble inside or in front of his own penalty box. His playing style was risky.

Here's an example:



An offensive player can afford to do fancy stuff as he knows that it usually does not lead to immediate danger as he's doing his stuff in the opposing half. This gives them some kind of security. Beckenbauer did not have that security, which in my opinion makes his "fancy" stuff a bit more remarkable, as he had the confidence to do this very close to his own goal.

Many of Beckenbauer's greatest single performances are not kept on tape, because usually only goals are preserved. Beckenbauer could dribble from his own penalty box straight to the opposing box. Even if it didn't always lead to a goal. The next minute he might have positioned badly. Would you ignore the great scene before just focusing on the bad positioning two minutes later? I wouldn't. But that's what you're doing if you are nitpicking Beckenbauer games that kind of way.

Sometimes he made mistakes like all other players. But Beckenbauer was in spirit a creative genius who shouldn't be measured with the criteria of "ordinary" defensemen.

 

Here is a vintage report taken from May 22, 1972 issue of "Kicker" magazine. Every week, a player is selected as "Man of the Day". In that issue, Beckenbauer was selected. This is what "Kicker" wrote (coming after Bayern's 4-1 away at Cologne)

Man of the Day
BECKENBAUER
He continues to amaze his many admirers time and again.
Whoever thought that he had now reached the maximum
of what he could deliver saw himself seriously misled
after the developments of recent weeks. Franz Beckenbauer
continues to conjure new wonders out of his magic box.

Now one really has to ask himself where are the boundaries
of this 26-year-old, who will appear in his 60th international
game next Friday in his hometown against the Soviet Union?
Friends and foes alike are not yet sure to which level the
world class player from Munich will stylise himself, who
set absolutely new standards as a libero and conductor of
defense.

There are two close aims that the Bayern skipper pursues:
Winning the European Championship with Germany
and repeating the Bundesliga championship of 1969.
For a Beckenbauer in this shape, everything is possible.

 

nothing is clear..i dont know what you talking about?? i asked you why gerd müllers liga cup goal are allways ignored...explain me ...and you turn the story and bore me with a van basten story.. ..(you knows what i think of van basten but i never said something in this topic)..i was foccused to hear from you why his 12 goals in 5 games are not counted!!

bayern munich has played 21 games in a timespan of only ONLY 5 WEEKS (insane) early season 1972-73..4 games at home ,17 away...6 of this games was OFFIZIEL LIGA CUP GAMES...the other 15 games was friendly games , many of them played in other countries(spain,austria,netherland and belgium)..gerd müller has played 5 of bayern munichs 6 liga cup games...in this 5 games he has played bayern munich won 3 and lost 2..16:12 goals,müller scored 12 of bayern munichs 16 goals...75%..the 6th game(without him) bayern lost at home 2:1 against stuttgart and munich was eliminated in this group of stuttgart,1860 munich and bayern hof..bayern hof was ranked 1th..there is no question for me it was bayern munichs defensive where was responcable and in parts the exhausting program of many games and travelling...however there is no excuse why bayern munich at home did loose 4:5 against- bayern hof- where gerd müller scored 3 goals..he is the last responcable player of the failure..12 of his team 16 goals in this 5 games is phenomenal ...

here are the results

1860 munich-bayern munich 1:3 , gerd müller 2 goals
vfb stuttgart-bayern munich 2:3, gerd müller 3 goals
bayern munich-1860 munich 5:3, gerd müller 3 goals
bayern hof-bayern munich 4:1 , gerd müller 1 goal
bayern munich-bayern hof 4:5 , gerd müller 3 goals
bayern munich-vfb stuttgart 1:2 , gerd müller didnt play

here the opponents of the friendly games

twice ajax amsterdam,feyernood rotterdam,wacker burghausen,fc valencia,fc brügge,german olympia team,ac beerschot,atheltico bilbao,fr botafoga,standart lüttisch,desportivo las palmas,voest linz,grazer ak..

 

Of course, you were sitting live in the stadium and making structured notes...

Looking back 30 years later can be illuminating. All kind of side-influences, whether someone preferred to be in a showbizz environment or not, can be more easily isolated and toned down, if necessary.

Furthermore, I think you are aware of what the team-mates of Beckenbauer said about Müller. It was Müller who won the prizes for them and while prizes are not the only important thing, in this case it is relevant.

The starter uses the idea of 'phenomenal class' as a concept that stands above 'world class'. Kicker rates around 5 players in a year as 'world class', so considering all other (major) competitions you'll get around 15-25 world class players in a year; with 15 as the lower end when you think that nothing goes above German football and 25 when someone thinks, like me, that the strength, if any, of German football tended to be the collective instead of the individual.
Using the same logic, you also have around 100 to 200 'international class' players in a year, thus roughly a 1:10 ratio.
This means that the term 'phenomenal class' can only be applied to one or two player in a year.

Depends on your criteria. If you firmly believe in German football superiority, then yes.




About the piece below I want in general express that this is a) irrelevant because it does not argue for or against being Beckenbauer of phenomenal level in one season and b) it is a view I knew, but not yet in the 'professor tells Beckenbauer for dummies' version.

This is wrong to begin with. The libero-role was invented in multiple countries at the same time. Not only in Germany was the old WM-system discarded and replaced by a back four, it happened elsewhere too. Velibor Vasovic played as a libero in Yugoslavia (and not a low level!) before Bayern began to do the same thing, permanently, around 1967 or 1968.

In some respect, the libero-role is a heir to the old centre-halve role, or at least some interpretations of it.

Did he opt? Or did others invented that role for him?

He was a inside-forward of nature who as professional dropped towards midfield and later on towards defense. That is not unique and not very rare. Many old centre-halves were a great forward too and played there in their youth. His successor Scirea also was a forward during his youth career.
By the way, the late 50s and early 60s it was also not unusual to use inside-forwards in a defensive way, with extended defensive tasks. Therefore, the obsolesce of the old WM-system was also a gradual development.

That is the foremost myth I have problems with. He wasn't a great defender. I do not have the energy to dig up instances of easy heading or so-so tackling because I know the response beforehand: nitpicking, not representative etcetera.

As you perhaps know, during his career he was also criticized by some for his reluctance to sweat and insistence to keep his cloths clean.

He was complete but not the most complete. He had weaknesses, including his heading, speed, body-strength, acceleration and so on.

Yes, and he was not the only one in history. I prefer that style so my 'criticism' is not related to that. When I referred to 'mistakes' I had honestly other situations in mind, not rare mistakes in making clearances.

Problem is though that currently such nice clearances are attributed to the movement and positioning of players. They often do not see, whether that is justified or not, the technical assurance that is demanded in such situations.

But if Beckenbauer is doing such a thing then it suddenly does attest to his greatness.

His assurance was Schwarzenbeck, his fouls, the referee and, if necessary, his hands. His assurance was also Gerd Müller; conceding 40 goals in a season doesn't matter if you score more than the other.

Other than that, I agree. However, in some tactical settings it is also a no-go for attackers and midfielders to lose the ball. For example: in situations of pressing, a lateral pass is always dangerous. A misplaced lateral pass is a guarantee for a dangerous counter-attack. So it is still possible to gauge the assurance of those players in these situations.

I decide for myself what I'm doing if you don't mind.

I did not have those situations in mind. If these situations turn bad, it is just as much a fault of the team-mates as Beckenbauer himself. They often build some insurance when he did make those runs.

I had other mistakes in my mind, which I had said before:

But you opted to give your own interpretation to it, as if I meant the runs forward. No, not at all.

In fact, the post-70s Beckenbauer was quite boring and not so adventurous, hence his not so impressive goalscoring record, considering his status and role as quasi-playmaker.

By the way, concerning the 1976 season, you yourself wrote in your bundesliga articles that Beckenbauer showed signs of aging in april 1976. That is correct and I mentioned some games where one can see that (and you can also see in this thread that I have less problems with 1972 than with 1976).

That is circle-reasoning: because he was not ordinary one should not compare him with ordinary figures.

To some extent it is plausible though; he was a kind of playmaker at defense. But to say that he was a playmaker who could defend, that is something I won't concur with.

 

You are aware that everything that points towards Beckenbauer being the better/more important player (Ballon D'or, Kicker ratings & articles, German Footballer of the Year voting) was produced back when he was active by people who watched him play, right?

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1339075
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19697459&postcount=61
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1516240
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=936925



Maybe it's just me being odd trusting the judgment of several different contemporary (professional) national and international sources who watched both play week in week out more than someones word/opinion (as you have provided nothing more so far) 40 years later on the internet.

 

An again an insult.


You are ignoring that he subject is 'phenomenal class', whatever it may be, or not?

If that is on the table, the important games clearly matter. Those games can be watched by everyone. And indeed, some old reports, or new reports that uses old ones, confirm that he made mistakes or was too late. Bottom line is, the performance in big games can be used as a crucial case.

Also telling is that you are ignoring some problems in the links you give:

Problem:
- The big country bias (that also affected Platini in a negative way when he was footballing in France)
- The cultural hemisphere bias
- Lobbying influences
- Non-football related influences like presentation

But I'm done with your belittling way of talking.

 

In case of Gerd Müller it is good to recall that many coaches he met had not much confidence in him. He even lost his place in the NT for some time while he was raking up goals. Then you maybe think that had some football-related cause, but no, coaches were complaining about that he was too fat or whatever kind of nonsense. If coaches are affected by those things, and simply ignore his performances, then it is not illogical to assume that he had the same problems in convincing the journalists. And it is also not illogical to assume that presentation has an influence on preferences and voting. That always had and always will be.

 

Where is the insulting part? Oh well ...

 

What Schwuppe said.
I have about over 100 full games with Beckenbauer on DVD and countless vintage newspaper reports. I don’t need PuckVanHeel with a general dislike for German football and prone to all kind of variations of conspiracy theories illuminating me about Beckenbauer in the year 2012.

Looks like a preconception in the mould of “Germany lacks talent but compensates that with a strong collective.” How did Germany end up with so many “Golden Ball” winners if their strength was the collective, not individual brilliance? Regarding your calculations, I’ll just pass. The less said, the better.

Has nothing to do with “believing in German football superiority” (over whom?). It also has nothing to do with your funny calculations. All it has to do with is the player in question and what he does on the pitch. One can have different opinions about whether a player played phenomenally over a year or not, but you cannot seriously arrive at a solution using calculation methods.

I wasn’t aiming at Beckenbauer’s involvement in the development of the attacking sweeper. I was aiming at Beckenbauer the player – his playing style was unique. Beckenbauer had the same abilities as any other of the great all-time players, all of whom were offensive players. Beckenbauer could do everything a Cruyff could do. They were on the same level. Yet Beckenbauer was a defender. This sets him apart from all other defenders. His technique was sublime and unheard of for a defender, his creativity, verve, guts, vision – you name it – was in the sphere of other all-time Greats, a sphere a normal defender (even the best of them) would never ever come close to reaching. Velibor Vasovic was not comparable to Beckenbauer in any field. Jonathan Wilson with his love for Eastern European football might have found it more rewarding to big-up a – relatively obscure - player like Vasovic to make his book even more interesting.

By the way, Beckenbauer began playing as offensive center half for Bayern in 1964, not 1967 or 1968 as you implied.

I see where you are coming from. “Beckenbauer wasn’t a great defender”. This view is familiar to me because it was a view shared by many people in Germany in the late-1960s. People like Willi Schulz and other, more “worklike” players and spectators who valued a defender according to the amount of successful tackles and headers he made during a game. A player of Beckenbauer’s qualities was not deemed appropriate to play in central defense. Many people, including Helmut Schön, thought it was weird of Beckenbauer to insist playing as a defender instead of a midfielder. Schön didn’t want to have any of it right up to late-1970 (the year).

I am far from claiming that Beckenbauer was the greatest player in defensive ability, but to say that he wasn’t a great defender is stretching it a bit. His positioning, tackling and heading wasn’t as mediocre as you think. While he wasn’t perfect at it, he was more than capable defensively. His true value was that he fulfilled almost to perfection one of the most demanding tasks a player can get assigned for. Theoretically, the sweeper system is the most flexible formation for a team. A good defence built around a talented sweeper can quickly react to what's happening during a match. If the team is under pressure, the libero may play behind the full-backs, if attack is needed, he may move in front, utilising the channels opening up in midfield. The libero may also decide to form a flat back three with the other central defenders, to orchestrate an off-side trap or have his team move upfield to deny space to the opposition. The problem is, you need to have a damn good player to match those tasks. The system works best when the libero is nothing short than phenomenal - quick on his feet and in his head, technically gifted yet fearless, at least useful in the air and good at tackling, someone who not only reads the game perfectly but then knows how to process this information and react accordingly. And he also has to be a leader type ... there have been players who could do all these things, or most of them. Beckenbauer was the first and in my opinion the best at it, others were Scirea, Krol, Baresi, Blind, Sammer. They don't grow on trees. In a conservative football-surrounding like that of Germany in the 1960s, people just couldn’t grasp this.

Regarding “sweat” and “clean clothes” – my goodness. Beckenbauer wasn’t a player that was keen on tackling every two minutes. So what? He got the job done using other means. And he sweated just like any other player would.

Every player has weaknesses. His heading was not a weakness at all. He would use his head if needed. Body-strength? How exactly was he significantly weaker than other Greats? Was Cruyff a very strong player physically? No he wasn’t. His speed was alright, as was his acceleration. I don’t see how these were particular ‘weaknesses’ of Beckenbauer.

You can’t compare a forward doing a dribble or a fancy trick in front of the opposing penalty box to doing the same in front of your own penalty box. The forward has the assurance of his whole defense and 2 or 3 midfield players covering him. Mentally, it is not a challenge to be a tricky offensive player. But a defender doing it is far more demanding because you’ll look like a complete fool if your team concedes a goal immediately if your trick/dribble didn’t work out.

You mean Beckenbauer post-1970 (the year?) or do you mean Beckenbauer post-1970s (the decade?). Beckenbauer was more adventurous playing for Germany in the 1960s because he was playing as a central midfielder and thus automatically his actions were closer to the opposing goal and thus more celebrated than in later years when he played as a defender. One thing worth noting however is that I do think that Beckenbauer is the only defender ever that acted as a playmaker of his team. Watching Bayern play at home in the 1970s, Beckenbauer is the de-facto midfield general spraying his passes, steering his team and his teammates. They all look for him. He is at the heart of everything, pulling all strings. The situation became the same for Germany after the 1974 World Cup, when Germany lacked world class midfield playmakers after Overath quit and Netzer’s form dropped at Madrid.