The greatest Argentinian player of all-time (1993)

Thank you very much!

 

Very interesting to see given the uncertainty over the years about his views on this sort of topic. Pedernera probably being the surprising omission (if we consider players admired too), not that he wouldn't have meant the positive things he said about him (and the influence on his own game).

Hidegkuti an interesting inclusion among admired players too (partly also for the influence on his own game aspect, given Puskas is said to have suggested playing a bit more Hidegkuti-esque and dropping less deep - in terms of helping out defence and searching for the ball near his own defence I think - and roving around a bit less than Alfredo had been doing I believe). He also played alongside Pini in Colombia and prefers him to Santamaria for example then....

 

Thanks, this is very interesting from multiple angles.

 

Uruguayan centreback, Raúl Pini and argentinian keeper Julio Cozzi, both ADS teammates at Millonarios, were arguably the best southamerican players in their position (CB, GK) before and after the start of El Dorado era.

 

This one is equally interesting (even with more clues as to Pele's ideas over the years, compared to Di Stefano).

I seem to remember, during an interview in England (I saw on the internet but not sure how to find now), in which he also answered questions about Messi/C.Ronaldo, maybe Kaka, he was answering about the best player/s ever by naming a few options and I think he said something akin to "in Britain here you had George Best, Bobby Charlton...." and "there is Cruyff from Holland, Beckenbauer from Germany" so Cruyff and Charlton are missing in the 1987 XI from those names. Rivelino if I'm not mistaken was a 'late inclusion' in the FIFA 100 Pele chose, after criticism began to come in when it seemed he hadn't picked as many Brazilians (especially that played in 1970) as expected, so maybe surprising Cruyff is not there instead of him for example (as number 11 or perhaps with Best moving into that slot).

Zizinho is among a few names Pele adds (I think he says "that means I had to leave out, for example...." in effect?), while Didi isn't. One notable thing regarding the FIFA 100 (which those two were not eligible for, as they were deceased) is that Zito is in his XI, and Corso appears to be named best Italian player in his opinion. Maybe that indicates that they were not among the 300 names shortlisted for Pele to pick his 100 (which ended as 125), since both those were alive and in theory available? I don't know - maybe the "how many Brazilians can I eventually be picking?" came into it with Zito, who he feasibly might see as ideal for the balance of his XI but not as good as more attacking players and/or more recent players. Scirea is another that perhaps wasn't in the shortlist given his high placing on Pele's list of Italians? He leaves Paolo Rossi out of that, and seems to say he was a great scorer but not as good an overall player as some other options (which might seem slightly harsh judging for example by his play in the 1978 WC but surely Pele was watching that closely) - I think it's a trend in general and this XI shows it too, that Pele prefers players who contribute a lot to the build-up and being able to make their own chances etc, without dismissing the value of scorers...

 

Sorry, I posted this a bit hastily and then went off to do something else, but of course ignore the Scirea part as he was obviously deceased when the FIFA 100 was selected too!

 

Pele is just only picking from the mainstream football countries, with the possible exception of Yashin. And has only four Europeans in (including the goalkeeper).

I think you mean this interview

https://www.prostamerika.com/2015/03/20/the-pele-interview/114512/

 

What a joke that George Best is preferred over his contemporary Cruijff. Typical Pele. You need to apply great mental gymnastics for that. Him reaching the 1969 final with a limited team (6 non-penalty goals, handful assists) is very arguably as great an achievement as what Best did in 1968 next to two other ballon dor winners. Nuff said.

And he was remarkably soft to Maradona then, who after all still had won very little by then (despite a world cup).

 

Oh no it is maybe this

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/pele-world-cup-interview

 

I saw a video interview, and while that one is conducted in England too, I'm thinking perhaps it was a different one. When he discussed Messi/C.Ronaldo I remember he made some reference to Vava at that point (I think saying he himself was more comparable to Messi, and Vava to C.Ronaldo at that time - maybe I'm thinking the interview I saw was from 2012 or 2013).

Certainly notable that he picks out Cruyff first and foremost (it could be said "would have loved to play alongside" is not the same as "in my best ever XI" but it does seem a contrast). He is quoted (in real time in late 60s or 1970) as saying Dzajic was a player he wished was Brazilian of course, so maybe he forgot to mention that in that interview - I suspect Dzajic could be one who wasn't on the FIFA 100 shortlist although maybe that in itself would be a bit surprising (it could be Pele saw his name and decided he wouldn't include him as obviously many great players played and retired since Dzajic's day and he'd also be aiming for a balance including 'enough' goalies and defenders etc). Sandro Mazzola gets lavish praise too (I think he's 6th in his list of Italian players from 1987 - I guess it's not Valentino, or Altafini), but again wasn't in the FIFA 100 (but neither is Riva, or Conti, while Zoff/Rossi/Boniperti are - perhaps positional/era considerations come into play again though or he forgot about Boniperti in 1987 or something; maybe I'd meant to mention Conti instead of Scirea even lol, but he clearly rated him having named him best player of WC1982 too - Rivera and Facchetti are in his FIFA 100 and named in 1987 too but at 3rd and 7th on his list, assuming it is ordered). Eusebio gets a mention in that interview but not the 1987 article too (and Puskas vice versa but that's not strange as such I don't feel in either case really).

I guess, with reference to this thread's title, it is not surprising that Di Stefano's selection draws much more on Argentinian players and Pele's has more Brazilians. Might be interesting to know whether Di Stefano did see enough of Zizinho to consider him, and even whether Pele was aware enough of Moreno (to be fair the former is a bit more likely I would think, given ages and playing careers).

 

No, that one is more recent I'm sure, but of course similar subjects (including 1958 World Cup etc - in the interview I saw he talked about the injury he carried into that a bit too I think) are covered.

 

Yes I saw that (also years before), what his view was before the world cup.

Pele includes two players who never made it to the world cup.

 

Note that in argentine tactic evolution:
N.2 - CB
N.3 - LB
N.4 - RB
N.5 - DM
N.6 - CB

Since in South America, the third back (WM) was the most defensive wing halfback, remaining the Centre halfback as midfielder.

This way, was the ideal team mentioned in the article.

 

A real pity that there are no matches in the network of "La Maquina de River" to be able to contemplate the characteristics as a player of "El Charro" Moreno and the rest of the members of that legendary team including a young Alfredo di Stéfano who was taking his first steps as a professional footballer.

Moreno could be one of those players who could well be considered the best of the first half of the twentieth century along with Meazza or Sindelar to give two other examples.

 

In the year 1938 Moreno in 31 games scored 24 goals, 21 of them from headers,
I don't know how many players could archive something like that



https://www.historical-lineups.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/1938.pdf

 

I think it isn't and/or shouldn't be so surprising that Cruyff appears, and he did mention him at times in interviews when reeling off a few names I know before (though yeah interesting that Best gets the number 9 shirt in his 1987 XI when arguably Cruyff might have fitted better there).

The one that does seem a contradiction or change of mind (especially as this is a list of 10 players and not an XI, although he seems to have tried to split things relatively evenly over the field positions, or felt that is correct, except there isn't a goalkeeper of course) is Trapattoni appearing, when he not only lost out to Zito in the previous XI (neither were in Pele's FIFA 100 and both were alive, although for that he had been provided with a shortlist to pick from I believe and quite possibly neither were in it) but wasn't in his 'top 7 Italians' list either. But maybe it's not too surprising since Trapattoni is said to be a player who did well vs Pele personally isn't he (and IIRC Pele did acknowledge that before)? In theory it's a former opponent, Trapattoni, in for a former team-mate, Zito. Maybe he liked the team balance better with Zito in the XI before (actually a more attacking balance in this case although still with a DM of sorts I'd say, in Zito), or maybe it'd have been a marginal call for him, and it can be argued that all the Italians in his top 7 are prevented a place by players who were in his XI before, or Cruyff, or new additions who played after 1987 and maybe indeed Trapattoni being a DM is relevant but in theory it's a contradiction that he wasn't even in that list of Italians and now appears in a top 10 overall.

Interesting to see anyway.