The good, the bad, and the ugly -- with the pretty possibly left behind

Discussion in 'Group C: Colombia, Ivory Coast, Japan, Greece' started by Iranian Monitor, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    In a sense, the good, the ugly, the bad and the pretty in this group. all have a chance to fail or to succeed. None is assured of advancing and all have reason to be hopeful. What I am undecided about, however, is this: if Japan are the pretty team in the group, and Colombia the side that is good, who is the ugly and who is bad? I guess we will know the answer when the tournament gets underway. But until then, this group deserves a thread too!
     
  2. GoYoungrokba

    GoYoungrokba Member+

    May 21, 2009
    Club:
    Suwon Bluewings
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    This group is probably the most balanced group in the tournament.
    I'd personally pick Colombia and Japan to advance from this one but I wouldn't be surprised at all even if the outcome will completely counter my prediction.
    On paper I believe the Colombians have the slight edge over their rivals but you can't survive with talent alone unless you are Brazil, Argentina, Germany or Spain.
     
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I agree.
     
  4. GoYoungrokba

    GoYoungrokba Member+

    May 21, 2009
    Club:
    Suwon Bluewings
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Just got the news that Falcao is out for 6 months due to torn ACL, meaning that he will likely miss this edition of the World Cup.
    I can see the dynamics of this group will be drastically changed because his absence will alleviate tremendous pressure on opposing defense.
    It will be interesting to see the Plan B from the Colombian side but it ain't gonna be easy as they've only got less than 6 months remaining.
     
  5. Big Football

    Big Football Member

    Jun 25, 2001
    Some beach in Florida,
    Club:
    Deportes Tolima
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Plan B is rather easy to figure it out. One of the best 9 in European football, Jackson Martinez, will take Falcao's place, and let's not forget that one of Colombia's strengths is the attack. Luis Muriel (Udinese), Carlos Bacca (Sevilla) Teofilo Gutierrez (River Plate) Adrian Ramos (top scorer in the Bundesliga with Hertha Berlin) and Freddy Montero (Sporting Lisboa) should make Colombian fans breath a little easier considering the great options up front.
     
  6. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Sure. But now they frontline is no better than Ivory Coast's (who has their own list of classy forwards - I would argue Cote d'Ivoire has the better options) with a similar level midfield. Probably Colombia has a better backline, but suddenly the difference between the teams seems miniscule.
     
  7. Big Football

    Big Football Member

    Jun 25, 2001
    Some beach in Florida,
    Club:
    Deportes Tolima
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don't see the "better options" you are referring to. 35 y.o Drogba? really? Gervinho is solid but I can not see Kalou rated above Bacca or Muriel, let alone Jackson Martinez.
    FIFA rankings lists Col number 4, I. Coast 17, Elo Rankings has Col 6, I. Coast 21, Do you believe that this gap in quality is because of just one man, Falcao? I do believe the Africans will advance to the 2nd round but the odds of Colombia going at least to the quarters remain the same.
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Actually wasn't referring to Kalou, although he's been in very good form lately. And Gervinho is a winger. Still... on current form at least on the level of Cuardado.
    Seydou Doumbia - most effective striker in Europe, statistically world class and I would pick him over every striker Colombia has (including Falcao for that matter), albeit he has yet to shine for Cote d'Ivoire and is injury prone
    Wilfried Bony - pure class, slow start to life in the EPL, but showing why he's worth the money (17 goals in his debut season is already equal to what Luis Suarez delivered in his first full season), 37 goals in 37 games last season.
    Lacina Traore - still rough around the edges, but as good, if not better, than most of the strikers you've mentioned save for Martinez, plus offers something very different
    As for Drogba - we'll still have to see if he's up to it, but he's still trolling defences

    So yes - I choose Ivory Coast's options over Colombia's.

    Rankings? Really? The gap is a result of confed bias and mechanics of the rankings.
     
  9. Bran

    Bran Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    Nijmegen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Even with the loss of Falcao, Colombia is favourites to be on top. Martinez is better than any other striker the other teams have . Colombia has the best balance too, solid defenders and solid midfield. Ivory Coast is next when it comes to material, but most of their players are old and fading only Yaya Toure remains consistently strong. Some people say that it was bad luck to be placed in the group of death during the last 2 world cups but there are other records to look at, if you look at their African cup of nations record its far from impressive too. They have consistently choked, only that one edition where they lost in the finale on penalties against Zambia did they even reach their potential. Japan imo has better papers for second place; in better form, lot's of excellent players and they have the advantage against Greece who are weak against technical teams. The only thing what can cost Japan is their crappy defense. Greece will hope to survive by their divine powers of scoring shit goals and bunkerball.
     
  10. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    #10 zahzah, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
    Not true. Seydou Doumbia is undoubtedly better (the only thing Martinez has over Doumbia is that he isn't injury prone) and Wifried Bony at least as good as Martinez and could be bringing in Luis Suarez level stats next season.

    As for Colombia being balanced: they lack proper defensive midfielders in the team (unlike Cot d'Ivoire) and their central defence pairing is weak even as compared to Cote d'Ivoire.

    Its a myth... Drogba is old and fading with possible only Didier Zokora (33 YO) possibly playing. The rest of the 'old squad' of outfield players is 31 or younger. Meanwhile these players are first teamers:
    Serge Aurier - 21 YO
    Gervinho - 26 YO
    Cheikh Tiote - 27 YO
    Salomon Kalou - 28 YO
    Sol Bamba - 29 YO
    Serey Die - 29 YO
    Plus 3 elite replacements strikers for Drogba in Bony (25), Doumbia (26) and Traore (23).

    Minus Drogba this is basically a squad of players in the prime.
     
  11. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    If I had to pick a best XI from both teams it would be 7 Ivorians and 4 Colombians (albeit the center pairing for Ivory Coast is hardly anything to write home about, but Zapata is just a terrible defender, especially this season):

    ----------------------Ospina---------------------
    ---------Zokora----------------K. Toure--------
    Aurier-----------------------------------Armero
    -----------Tiote------------Y. Toure-------------
    --------------------Rodrigues--------------------
    Cuadrado------------------------------Gervinho
    --------------------Doumbia---------------------
     
  12. Bran

    Bran Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    Nijmegen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Zokora, K Toure, Romaric, Gosso, Drogba and if you look at some of the recently called up players; Boka, Tiene, Eboue, Lolo, Kone all are in their 30ties and then are are also quite some on the border of that. Doumbia has been injured too much this season to show his true quality on a consistent level and Bony only as of recent started to really play well for Swansea it's a bit too far-fetched to say he will approach Suarez levels soon. you may find Zapata terrible but ratings and fans say other wise he is rated as one of the better players of AC Milan, not even close to the worst players of AC Milan (Emanuelson, Birsa, Robinho and Muntari) but to put Zokora ahead of him is just ridiculous.
     
  13. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    #13 zahzah, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
    Romaric, Boka, Eboue, Lolo, Kone, Gosso - won't start any game and may not be called up altogether. Not to mention Romaric and Kone will be 30 by the time of the World Cup.
    That leaves:
    Kolo Toure, Zokora and Tiene play as defenders and 31-33 is not a 'past it' age for players in such positions. So far only one of Kolo Toure and Didier Zokora ever start for Cote d'Ivoire.
    Didier Drogba - we'll see if he starts or if he becomes an impact sub; first case - advantage Colombia

    A large number of Cote d'Ivoire players are in their last chance saloon, but they aren't old. Come 2018 they will be.

    Seydou Doumbia has been injured a lot lately. But whenever he hasn't been injured he's been scoring ridiculous amounts of goals, this season over a goal per game and with one of the highest efficiences in Europe (38% Doumbia to 18% Jackson Martinez). For one thing Jackson Martinez has a notable drop-off in goals in European competition, Doumbia doesn't - he's scored two more Champions League goals than Martinez despite playing half the games.

    Wilfried Bony is having a better first season for Swansea than Suarez did. And he did score 37 goals last season.

    AC Milan fans view Zapata as a liability and a terrible off-form player (although the consensus is he's been playing better in the last few games). Claiming fans rate him highly proves a clear disconnect from reality. Check out their forum if you don't believe me. Just a few recent quotes after his last few games, where he was actually decent and vastly improved:
    "I have been saying since long time: "He is not starting material.""
    "I think he is an awful defender and my opinion hasn't changed even though he has improved from giving goals away nearly every game. (...)I think he is too error prone and gives the ball away far too much."
    "moved a level above the fodder zone after today's game."
    "How much better really he got? IMHO, he is not that great. If United is offering that amount (15 million); sell, sell, sell!!"
    "Too many ********-ups in defense from Zapata even when he is not playing next to Mexes."
    "Zapata is completely retarded. The man simply can not string a pass together and gifted Barca their goal."

    The best thing fans have to say about him is:
    "zapata has been our bestplayer collectively in these last 3-4 games. definately the most improved player as the sesons gone on, although he was horrendous at the start."

    So yeah... Zokora over Zapata any day every day. He's a good right back, especially going forward, but he has nothing on Serge Aurier, who is a vastly better defender.

    p.s. Not that it matters as its OT but Muntari ratingswise is one of AC Milan's better players. He's a very divisive person and you will find many AC Milan fans claiming he is crap as well as claiming he is a vital player for Milan (many people crediting him as a BGP who was pivotal in Barcelona matches in the past few seasons).
     
  14. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Zapata has had his bad days in milan but recently he showed his top forms for Colombia and ac milan!
     
  15. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Zuniga over any of ivorys coast defenders anyday...
     
  16. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I had a tough choice with Zuniga and Armero at LB, but Serge Aurier at RB as the full package.
     
  17. fatfan-labamba

    Dec 14, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Japans national anthem brings me to tears :cry:, don't know what it means but its tune is very moving can't wait to hear it during the WC.
     
  18. Froboy69

    Froboy69 Member+

    Inter Milan
    Colombia
    Mar 25, 2011
    San Diego
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    That's cute....

     
  19. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Time for Ivoiry Coast and Drogba to shine in world cup, and what better than a world cup in brazil to end a fantastic career.
     
  20. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    #20 Nicola777, Mar 7, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
    oh guy you'll find out soon about serge aurier...certainly one of the most promising rb in the world at his age.


    this group is not easy to me cause without have origins from these countries but knowing people from there i have particular affection for japan, ivoiry coast and colombia...

    japan, always been my favorite asian country and i appreciate particularly beautiful japanese women! cute, classy, respectful, stylish, sweet: )
    ivoiry coast one of my best friends is from there and i've always been fan of drogba!
    colombia oh dio mio colombian women, charming, sexy with bums to die for!!!

    i'm sad that falcao has been injured...i'd have liked to see both of these 3 teams reach round 16 of world cup.

    but i think ivoiry coast with yaya toure and drogba will surprise the world this time.
     
  21. Flipmode2000

    Flipmode2000 Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    USA -Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia

    Ivory's Coast defense is very suspect.. you have to thank Benteke for kicking the grass and not scoring that third goal... We have very good mix of strength and speed which none of the other teams have.. plus our number 10 James is going to be one of the bright stars of this World Cup....which I'm sure you've seen play in Monaco..
     
  22. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Sure, but Serge Aurier is growing to be an elite right back - vastly superior defensively to Zuniga and almost as good offensively.

    ...other than Cote d'Ivoire who are even stronger and faster.
     
  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    It will come down to Tactics and Execution of game plan.

    Pekerman knows what he is doing. The other Managers are not in his class.
     
  24. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Aurier was a beast attacking vs. Belgium, but I thought he left the. Belgians with too much room on the counter, he did well vs Hazard the few times he came up against him though.

    This group we have 3 very good attacking sides with mediocre defences.

    And one team supposedly with a good defence and a mediocre attack. Greece just lost at home 2-0 to Korea. I'm sure they have the best defence of the four sides, but I don't think it will be good enough to get them out of this group and withstand 3 high powered offences in a row. I feel that Greece will play spoiler to one team though and help decide which 2 advance. I think Colombia are in the worst position to have to play them first, because they will likely be very cautious in this opening match, while they will more likely have to come out and attack in their final game vs CIV, likely needing a win to qualify.

    IMO it's pretty even between CIV, Japan, and Colombia who will go through. I think the key matchup is that first game between Japan and CIV. Both defences are very bad, I see lots of goals in this one, could be one of the most entertaining games of the first round. If one team wins, I am pretty sure they have one foot in the next round.
     
  25. Nicola777

    Nicola777 Member

    Dec 9, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    I know James, i'm a huge fan, he's one of my favorite players in ligue 1.
    But ivoiry coast was able to draw Portugal 0-0 4 years ago.
    their bad luck was to face brazil next, when Portugal had the chance to face their brazilian brothers already in round 16.
    I can sense that Ivoiry Coast might carry african hopes this time. Yaya Toure being one of the best midfielders in the world, Drogba shining front of the world for the end of his career. Some very skilled players as gervinho or kalou, and youngsters like Serge Aurier...
    Maybe the won't lead the group, but i feel they'll go through this time.
     

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