You're right there. You're so emphatically wrong about being white etc...thats an American talking. Anyway, Khedira definitely has infinite value for us, he is a fighter, covers lots of ground and does relatively good when it comes to passing. I don't doubt that he and schweinsteiger should start in the middle, there is a reason why he's mourinho's to go man, he's simply one of the best at what he does. In fact, there are only a handful of players worldwide who could take his position, and they're not german. Busquets being an obvious candidate, but he's on another level.
I don't care what Mourinho thinks of him, or that he plays for Madrid. What is it exactly that he does so well for Germany? It's certainly not offensive passing, or destroying (he has the worst defensive stats of all our available options for that position). He covers a lot of ground, but his runs generate no end product because he has no goal threat. I know, lets mention that he is the best at what he does and totally dismiss a bunch of statistics that completely disprove that position. I personally don't think he was all that great at the Euro either. The only thing he showed was a high work-rate, but that's not what a team like Germany needs, if it comes in a package that is so limited technically.
No just very, very average and thus no argument FOR him. Which is simply not true. I could also have included Gündogan who has also shown those qualities, not to mention like 4-5 other CMs in Germany. And other players can't do that? Do you just ignore the facts/stats? You can of course argue that Real has other players for creative/offensive stuff but that is also true for Germany, not to mention that it is easier to create something if your team dominates the opponent. It also worked often enough with Kroos and failed with Khedira (vs. Austria and Argentina recently and where was Khedira against Italy defensively?). I'm not saying that it HAS to be better with Kroos but I also don't see the opposite and if it's all about defensive stability then other players should play with Schweinsteiger in CM. And you seem to disregard that Khedira is not the great defensive player and that was also exposed in Real's matches against Bayern. It's funny that you try to turn this discussion into a "Khedira vs Kroos" thing because you obviously think that you can then use all the talk about defensive in Khedira's favor. Like I said if we want more defensive stability then someone like L. Bender should play and obviously Schweinsteiger seems to agree there.
Again, nonsense. When he was allowed to play his natural role he showed his worth. Only Yaya is better at this at the moment. Yea Gündogan would be nice to have in there. I fully expect him to be a future starter. At the moment however, none of the younger players are better or more proven than Khedira. huh? Your opinion of him is skewed because of those "facts", that don't necessarily pertain to the players you compared him to. Let's put things into context. Khedira is a box to box midfielder. How long did it take Löw to give him a free-er role, or Mourinho? When he did, he thrived. He just had a monster tournament. His role at Madrid and Germany are a little different in the attacking third. I'd say his role for Madrid allows him to have more attacking freedom because their backline and overall gameplan is more disciplined under Mourinho. The players ahead are better and are more selfish than Germany's attackers. Ronaldo demands the ball far more than anyone in our team. While we have attacking options too, we are not refined yet as a team. Löw's emphasis on attack leaves a lot of the rest of the team prone to criticism, and rightfully so. That's on the manager. At club level that isn' the case. It works with Kroos when we play minnows or our opponents don't put pressure on us. Against Argentina Khedira was not bad before the own goal and let's face it, that match was turned by the red card more than anything else. The Austria and Italy matches were collective failures so all your three examples are very poor. And my argument is not about defensive stability but about using the double pivot in a 4-2-3-1 properly. The formation usually uses two deeper CM's, one of which retains, and the other is usually more forward going. Both are responsible for defensive cover. Usually more high energy players are better. Thankfully Khedira is not a mental dud and he reads the game well enough and slots in with the technical bunch we have. I'm all for trying out a 4-3-3 with Kroos in there but that's the only way Toni will ever fit into our starting side. Actually that implication was made when Kroos was suggested to start and we clearly know it's at the loss of Khedira's spot. What's more important than defensive stability is the mental aspect and Khedira is a better leader, professional and more disciplined than Kroos in this regard. With our weak mentality, that's a gem. Moreover it's about playing the formation properly. Kroos is NOT a CM. EVER. In any reality.
all my friends who live in the united states adopted that kind of rhetoric. people assume things are as racially tensed there are they are in europe.
Completely agreed, Kroos's form for bayern is reflective of this too. THere is no argument here anyway.
Well, I'm not American although I live here. It's not an assumption. American culture is just as racially divided as in Europe, even moreso in its own subversion of its ideology.
Oh wow, I wonder how I managed to pull that one out. I don't think you got my point, at all. In Europe, of course there is racial divide, they're just less conscious of it (while americans are generally more cautious about racial issues affecting politics).
That was my point. There is a great number of Americans who don't think the country has racial issues at all. In fact. And while those who play those issues down will tell you it can't possibly be the case because we have an African American president, that's exactly how racist ideology plays out. Similarly in Europe the wave of embracing multi-culturalism but at the same time securing borders and enforcing stricter anti-immigration policies work to re-enforce the subtle existing racial tensions. But yea I know what you mean in terms of the consciously cautious approach to politics. America is a deeply religious nation that likes to think of itself as a country of the family, one to upload a moral code but the more we see it the more the opposite is of course resonated.
I don't think its racist ideology is played out, but more or less a dishonesty/ignorance on part of those who believe that. Racism is a serious issue, and the word shouldn't be thrown about so flippantly. However, more white males (in %) voted for barak obama than they did for bill clinton, the progress the country has made is incredible. Anyway, I think multiculturalism in europe is not for the sake of multiculturalism at all, nor is it even in favor of immigrants, but merely a reactionary rhetoric to the dwindling european populations in countries like germany, uk etc...
I.E europeans aren't interested in the immigrants, they just want someone to do the work. They don't allow them to integrate properly like white americans have done.
In the USA and Germany you have better chances if you are born in the country and your parents have an established living, since your parents know the system, know how to build a career, can talk to you in the language, ... . As an immigrant (1st gen) it is in both systems not easy because you need to learn the language to make it at school or have special skills (i.e. be good at sports or have a rare skill for the job market). To make it is not easy, but people make it in both systems and others don't. I have been recently in AZ and CAL. There at the low qualifying jobs I saw almost no white person, but Latin Americans and in California also many Asians. That is IMHO not a racism issue, but it is based on chances and how they are used. In the USA maybe the system there it is said to be easier to make it even with smaller chances and hard work, but I like to see some statistics. Many people take Obama as an example for nice integration, but look at the jobs his parents had. They could pay the very high University fees in the USA and offer him a chance, which Omaba did very well. I know also know some people I was in school with, who were immigrants, but their parents had good jobs (doctor with own office) and they made it in Germany (MBA, then good jobs). They had the chances, too, and used them. So I would deny your racism claim, but say that its about the chances you have. And they don't simply rely on your nationality.
Sure and yet it took his election to reveal just how racist this country truly is, from the poorest of the poor to those in congress with him and dozens of branches in the media. Both the U.S. and Europe suffer from a heavy presence of the traditional order who still very much have a strong-hold over the ways of life in their respective cultures.
Eh, a lot of issues people point to as issues of racism in the US are really just issues of socio-economics, issues which do disproportionately effect the black community because the black community is disproportionately poorer in today's america.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/15/germ...said-i-would-quit-in-2014?source=breakingnews Like a nightmare that never ends...
I was fairly convinced Loew was the coach for us until about a year ago; Hopefully we can get someone decent in.
Nah, there are certain fundamentals you can't change. He is a terrific decision maker, I had to pick my jaw off the floor when I saw our lineup vs Italy. Also, if our defense incompetence wasn't addressed beforehand, I don't see how this is going to change. These issues are usually remedied within 4 - 5 games, the coach addresses the issue and drills a defensive lineup into the players. Our bad defending is not going to get solved, not as long as Loew is in charge. We have the quality for sure, most teams would wish to have our back 4. I don't think Loew is entirely competent in that regard.
3-5-2 is gettign more n more popular. Italy did well with 3-5-2 during the euo In fact, i think Loew should hv a few tactics and formation in mind, he is just sticking with 4-5-1. Everytime and its getting predictable. not a fan of 4-4-2 but i do think 3-5-2 opens up all sort of possibilities. 4-6-0 is not an option, it happens only because we dont have ANY striker other than Klose. 3-5-2 gives us flexibility n we can add another striker in the pitch when we're behind or something. ----------------------------------Neuer ------------Howedes---------Hummels------Mertesacker --Castro-------------------------------------------------------Lahm --------------------Khedira-----------Schweinsteiger ---------------------------------Oezil ---------------------Mueller-----------Klose
Take your political discussions elsewhere. I hate it when sports are used by political activists to put their agenda in the limelight, as seems to be the trend in recent weeks/months. Legions of posters and journalists most of whom have no interest in football at all have discovered the sport recently as a vehicle to convert the unpolitical masses to their cause. We should not allow them to hijack and politicize our sport.