The fight against modern Soccer(football) 2

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by vifvaf, Nov 8, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
     
  2. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    The only thing I will say is if the current administration is re-elected for another four year term, you will not recognize The US in four years.

    We will be Greece or France.
     
  3. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Again you show that you are mostly focusing on the short term thinking and your own benefits in the presents. Im sure you will survive to pay 4$ for a gallon of gas. Here the price is curently with todays exchange rate 9,84 $ for a gallon.
    Maybe they should take your example from football and prize out the bad driver from traffic with higher gas prizes. Im sure the accident statisticsould would go down.

    Buy a bike

    Who is that 47% ? To raise the tax for people allready struggeling wouldn`t solve anything. And if you raise taxes for the people that is creating work they probably will stop doing so. And if you do not get enough tax income to the state you lose the quality of public services and benefits.
    So who?


    I suggest you involve you in politics. Like football it is the only way to make a change.
     
  4. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    In what way is USA the best country in the world ? Show me the numbers or info to back that up please ;)
     
  5. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    I am sorry you have to pay almost $10.00 per gallon. Honestly, that is your problem. You need to pressure your officials to do something about gas prices. When the current administration took office gas was at $1.79 per gallon. So they have done well to their stated goal of higher energy prices.

    In terms of getting a bike, I cover three states and drive 200-300 miles per day for my job.tell me again how a bike is going to help?

    EVERYONE needs to have skin in the game. In other words everyone should pay some taxes.
    The top one percent which I am not part of, already pay forty percent of the taxes in this country. even if you taxed the top one percent at 100 percent (meaning they would have nothing) it would only be two percent of the debt the US owes.

    the problem is that the 47 percent are going to wake up in October and realize an election is coming up, since they have no stake in society (they don't pay taxes) they won't be well versed in current events and how this administration is doing.
    There needs to be less services and definitely less benefits.Under the current administration more people depend on the government for benefits and services. Otherwise the US will be Greece with no one to bail us out. American exceptionality will come to the front. Unfortunately, that has been dulled by the Current administration.
     
  6. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    Remember the greatest generation of Americans ( they won World War II) Otherwise most of Europe would be speaking German.

    The US always sticks up for oppressed people (see Saddam is out of Iraq and Afghanistan).

    The US has spent treasure (most importantly treasure in terms of lives lost) to free countries time and time again.

    It is a melting pot of many people who have great opportunity.

    I would prefer to get back to football. This is not a political forum.
     
  7. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    My point was not that people should walk around and be afraid of the police or ther government. Not at all. But a critical view is a good thing. You seem to think everything done by the police is right without any question. Just because they are police.
    And when or if any of your rights are restricted or robed by police just because they are police, then i try to stand my ground. It happens even if you have not heard or seen it before.
    I happens i football as in other places in society.
    And i only commented that to me it seems like europeans take more extreme messures to tell when they feel treated wrong. Wither it the police or say the gouverment. And i think that is a result from the history with the needs to unite in important questions. Stronger together like in the stands. A united fan base in one place in the arena makes more noise then individuals spread around.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    To play the devil's advocate, these are good pieces about the dangers of unequal privacy in this world:
    http://www.truth-out.org/unequal-privacy/1315925754
    http://www.truth-out.org/silent-state-campaign-against-whistleblowers-washington/1328799217

    And this one is a case in practice and how fraudulent people misuse information and silence whistleblowers thanks to a lack of privacy:
    http://www.truth-out.org/whistleblo...enders-say-dozens-former-employees/1321995049
     
  9. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    Very few Americans are afraid if the police or government. Only if you have something to hide should you have to worry. Are injustices sometimes carried out. Sure. Should Americans have a critical eye towards their government and police. Absolutely. That is why the 47 percent in America who don't pay taxes should. Otherwise they will start paying attention one month before the election and think nothing in their life has changed so everything must be ok. Everything is not ok in the United States.
     
  10. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    When using electronic communication you have to be smart. Convenient, yes. Traceable , absolutely. However, you have to realize phone records e-mails have also been used to convict criminals

    In terms of whistleblowers, it is wrong to punish them. It is the media's job to make those areas come to light. It is the publics job to stay informed and keep the light on those companies, or, not patronize those companies because of their practices.
     
  11. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    I never said police are always right and should never be questioned. Please show me where I said that
     
  12. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I get it you are a patriot.
    I said i was gratefull for the support during WWII. To claim that 1,5 million American soldiers in Europe won the war alone is a bit optimistic though. But ok.


    So no self-interest behind any of those war then ? For example oil ;) You self complained over high gas prizes.

    First i have used examples from other things and situation to show you that it happens other places than only football and to show you the context.
    2`nd you need to accept that your teories , numbers , opinions and "facts" is proven wrong. Same with me.
    But you didn`t tell me anything that prove USA is the best country in the world.
    But yes lets turn in to the football part again.
     
  13. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I have no problem paying 10 $ per gallon. I was pointing out that you might not have such a high prizes as you thought.
    Current administration or old. Like you said , things change .

    If you drive 300 miles a day i would guess you have some sort of deal with your employer so you do not have to pay for the gas your self during working hours. If not, you should get one. ;)

    Here as in football i think it is important to find the balance. If you raise the taxes so high for the ones all ready struggling they will probably not be able to keep it going , and in the end the government loose the tax income from the person.
    Same in football . If you prize out the people that is a big part of the product you will end up loosing income as a club.
    Balance. Do not overspend or use more then you can pay back.
     
  14. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    See the local patriotism Schapes ??? ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    Winston Churchill was begging President Roosevelt to enter the war. Roosevelt didn't think the Americans had the stomach for another war. Pearl Harbor changed that. Europe had already lost the war. Germany occupied Europe except for great Britian I believe. As I said, if America doesn't come into World War II, everyone besides Britian is speaking German.

    In terms of gas, I always knew Europe and the rest of the world paid higher prices. Very aware of that. As the current administration keeps reminding us as they do nothing to stem the tide. Americans don't want to pay that much for gasoline.
    My frustration is the fact that enviromentalists have pressured the administration into not drilling as much as they should. I want $1.74 a gallon gas again. My car comment was to show you that just "getting a bike" isn't feasible for most Americans. Public transportation is woeful. Not like Europe. The US government indirectly subsidized the car industry by building an interstate system. Reason: jobs. They also won't put effort into something the US has. Natural Gas. The US is the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. If the 18 million trucks were retro fitted to natural gas - that would save the US 3 million barrels of oil a day. We would not be funding both sides of the terrorist equation. Instead the administration is funding algae.

    The 47 percent that aren't paying taxes should have skin in the game. Opponents say whatever they pay is a higher percentage of income (no matter how small) of the 1 percent. They are exactly right. What happens when the percentage gets to be more than fifty percent that aren't paying taxes? Those that do pay taxes will have less incentive to work hard. Why should they? The message that should be sent is work hard and be rewarded. More people will give up and not work as hard. To make the difference up, maybe those who don't make much will work harder to better themselves. Remember my socialism parable?

    In terms of overspending I agree with you. Unfortunately the current government of the United States doesn't. They want the European nanny state model from Europe.
     
  16. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    Sure there was self-interest. But, isn't the world a better place without Saddam Hussein and his regime?

    Did anyone else make the tough decision to oust him?

    I believe what makes America great are the people in the Armed Forces. There is not better Army in the world. It is the people who volunteer that make it great. They make it possible for many Americans to live a good life.
     
  17. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Has it not occured to you that the reason that the overwhelming majority of that 47% don't pay tax is because they are children?

    Taking stats for 2000, the latest I could find without an in-depth look, says that 116 million of the 280 million in the USA at the time were either children or pensioners. That's 41% right there.

    Maybe you think it right that those lazy freeloading kids should pay tax, as they use that wishy-washy "being at school" excuse for not going out and earning a living, but some might suggest it's a little harsh.
     
  18. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    I am not including kids.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The reason why 50% pays no taxes is because they are lowered. That gave the necessary space to decrease the gross wages without decreasing the net income.

    :)

    Anyway, it is quite curious that you rally against a nanny state but have no problems with an authoritarian police state. It is also curious that you are pro-interventionism. In fact, the Republicans had in the 1930s and 1940s issues with intervening in countries and that is also more consistent with their philosophy in general I've to say. The philosophy of that everyone has to take care over itself. So, low taxes but also not saving other countries. Saving others for their own mistakes is the primary indicator of a nanny state.
     
  20. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001

    Show me where I said I was in favor of an authoritarian state. Go ahead. I am sure you won't be able to.
     
  21. Schapes

    Schapes Member

    Aug 20, 2001
    So I guess the US should have left Saddam and The Taliban in power. Maybe America should have left Europe in Nazis control.

    When are we getting off politics and back to football?
     
  22. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I do not intend to continue the discussion on WWII. But try to keep in mind the numbers of soldiers and Intel that participated during the war.
    There where over 50 millions combats during the WWII in Europe. Im sure there where other Soldiers participating in the victory.

    Then maybe you should work for a better public transport system and not lower gas prizes.Use the extra money the government get in from the high gas prizes for building public transportation. Balance like in football, remember ;) . Was your job example just bullshit?
    Im sure you will use the Natural gas when its needed. Maybe they are trying to thing two thoughts at once .
    Like i said before. Get involved in politics and do something about it.

    Why are 47% of USA`s people paying taxes ?
    And what is the European nanny state model?
     
  23. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
  24. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Im not sure if you know it but there where massive resistance on the war in most places in the world. Yes i agree the world is a better place without Saddam Hussein and his regime. Though I would claim that there would be other , better , cheaper and more life-saving ways to get rid of Saddam and his regime then the way it was done.


    So you are saying that USA is the greatest country in the world because they have enough military force to attack almost any country in the world?
    What about crime rate , healthcare , education , human rights or economy?
     
  25. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Do you have a link to support your statement ?
     

Share This Page