Only issue is Cabrera has said he plans to go with a 4-2-3-1, so where do you use Torres in that set-up?
Again, I think y'all are under-estimating the dumpster fire this looked to CA and what their mentality is. Some of it may be, we don't seem to demand anymore that new players come in and set the world on fire, and to be ok bargaining about someone like Miranda like he's hot property. The impression I got of what CA fans thought, is they thought he sucked, and in his last appearance he went off hurt when they had no subs and had to play short. We seem so status quo oriented and willing to moneyball even shabby players that it hits funky to hear a team simply say, "No thanks. Not at any price." He would ask for a fair amount of money, did nothing for them, upset the fans, and got hurt. They want someone who can play. Total mismatch, not worth the dollar. Not quite the same, but I watch us trot out Osweiler ever week. I cannot believe Savage is worse than that. I cannot believe this is best for us winning. Denver benched this same guy in favor of a breaking down Manning and won a Super Bowl. But we are playing him because we feel committed. The commitment has one of the worst passer ratings and barely .500 in the worst division in football, the year after we were like 11-5 with an assortment of mediocrities at QB. As with Torres, they are spending so much they just hope it works. You start doing things out of hope and obligation instead of ruthless personnel sense and this is what happens. On paper Osweiler should be the highest paid backup QB in the league, unless he earns his way back out there, until we can cut him late next season. I wish we had more of the CA mentality, you either set the world on fire or I'm going to try someone else. The whole reason I have a loan or a rookie deal is kick the tires and walk away if I am not blown away. So, Brown, yes, rest of that pile of guys, probably no. Torres, no. More of that attitude and less of hoping every guy on the roster is magically better next season and this will head someplace. Used to be the rookies who stuck were like Holden or Cameron, you just almost immediately saw it, or got some key contribution.
Player - AM - Mauro -Torres Offensively plays more like a 433 and requires wingbacks to do more ground covering so the wingers can hang higher up the field. Not impossible if we can find the right pieces.
Using Manotas as a AM would basically turn 4231 into 4-4-2. I personally prefer central midfielders to be great at passing quickly, with a wide range of passes, such as Lodeiro or Valeri, but there's more than 1 way to do things. Like you said, the two outside of the three AMs would act as forwards/wingers, and Manotas may be able to play there as well as CF.
This is a statement has been repeated on this board for more than a year now. First with the hopes that he partners with Bruin, and now with Manotas. I hope I'm wrong on this, but if Torres doesn't get the start on the first match or makes an impact in the first couple of matches, then he has no future with this club. Despite the shenanigans when we aquired him, I've had high hopes that he would be our impact player. But there comes a time that, after 1.5 seasons, after 3 coaches, we need to re-evaluate, and move on. There is only so much excuses we can make for the guy before we stop blaming the environment he's in, and start looking towards the player himself.
Agree with Sogej I think we have gotten used to mediocrity. Instead of asking for great playmakers, we have gotten used to hoping that what we already have can work. * Of course, I understand that in Cubo's case, we may be stuck with him for one more year if nobody else wants to buy him. Of course, if we hadn't overpaid Bruin to stay with us for a few more years, we'd have space for another forward.
Sorry but the idea Torres jumps top of the heap and is then paired by the most productive other forward has it a$$-backwards. You do something dumb like that if you think salary buys you a starting spot. Wrong. I am paying you to produce and more money means I expected more. Just look at the Texans' idiocy, running out Osweiler every week when even a competent QB this season would have us well clear for the division win. I instead expect the Texans to risk no playoffs at all -- despite the weakness of the division and the minimal competence it would take to walk it -- because anything else will be depicted a "risk" and we have all this money committed to Osweiler. When last year's history for him is he got benched in favor of Manning and the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Manning actually looked bad, but for purposes of competitiveness, it's all relative. How can you not prosper in the passing game with Nuk, Fuller, etc.? I watched Bradford play last night and it's like you plug that Philly surplus in here and we'd be several over .500. Again, I would encourage us to negotiate a mutual walk away where he tears up his deal and goes back to Mexico. I would make it clear he will probably sit here unless he plays out of his mind. There is no reason he should start whatsoever from a rational standpoint other than pure CYA. Manotas had 6G, Bruin 4, Torres 0. Who starts in 1 or 2 man formations, from that set, should be obvious. Manotas one man, Bruin off the bench. Manotas and Bruin in two man. The idea Torres jumps queue because of the salary invested is part of the loser logic where this team seems more concerned with CYA than with fashioning winning teams. He wants to force us to honor the deal until the option, fine, you can accumulate dust on the bench. You play the people who produce, not their darned salary figures. That's my two cents. However, an obvious reason to hire Cabrera is doubling down on Torres via his old coach. I therefore instead expect to relive last season's forward drama again, learning all the same lessons about who can play and who can't, as Cabrera gets his own learning experience. So for each of 3 head coaches we get to go around in the same circle until that coach gets it and bangs his head on the wall. But doing it this way seems implicitly to be laying it on the lap of the coach to fix the issue, which is CYA for Jordan or whoever was actually dumb enough to sign Torres. So, yeah, keep pretending a coach will fix it and if he can't that's a coaching failure. Jordan can go skipping off and keep his job every year that way.
That attitude, as with several other manifestations, was honed in the post-championship years when we started moving championship pieces around like Cameron, Davis, and Holden, rather than signing someone. The offense lost some punch playing people out of position rather than acquiring a playmaking specialist, but we made the playoffs routinely so the general fan base didn't care and people like me got crap for pointing it out. It's now down to the point where we don't even have that quality of utility player, and yet it's still, oh, Alex or Clark is good enough playmaking. We can get enough forward play from this set. We can build off some of the crappy backs. etc. It's the old make do attitude put upon a team that sucks and can't even slightly make do, even if everyone plays their specialty. We need to go back to the original model, where everyone was a specialist. Dero playmake, Clark destroy, forwards, wings, backs, keeper. Over time find people who play a role well. No more of this shift around deck chairs on the Titanic BS. That wasn't optimal when it became gospel and it's losing concept now.
Personally even the Manotas love has a hint of savior syndrome. We should be finding people to play there as we can, and whoever produces, plays. I don't care if the salary pecking order is Torres, Bruin, Manotas, if the productive reality is reverse, you play the producers. And if we can find someone better than Manotas, you play the guy who does more. I am not anointing Manotas because part of the problem around here is putting people on a pedestal for doing much of anything, Bruin, Alex. Also, FWIW, you watch that semifinal second leg from Canada, you look at the East scoring stats, you look at Colorado out long ago, hmmm, I don't know if this is a league where you can build on stiff defense and 1-0. It wasn't when the threat was Donovan/Keane -- when they repeatedly showed us the door -- and it's not now. So we need people who can dump double digit goals and score hat tricks if that's what it takes.
I agree with you. I said I was a tad bit more optimistic because last year I was over the guy. BUT, Something tells me that maybe having Cabrera with him might make him play better or at least try harder - especially since Chivas doesn't want him and neither does Cruz Azul so hey why not perform at the club who is OVERpaying for you.
Any who in order to achieve our forwards actually performing there needs to be chances created and dammit we need a creator MASSIVELY.
It would likely morph into a 442 at times. A lot of the viability comes down to exactly who the RAM and CAM are in that specific lineup. I picture a Piatti-esque RM and a more simple distributor in the middle. In that case i think Mauro could do quite well at LM. Its about the only way i see him and Torres on the field together atm.
Cruz Azul passing, looks like we will put Cubo up for rent at ebay Mexico (2/2) "There is no opportunity to move him domestically. He either returns or goes on a loan to another foreign club, likely in MX".— Lester Grötsch🇩🇪🇪🇺🇨🇭🇨🇷 (@LesterDeportes) December 5, 2016
...and the only Mexican forward with any experience (Pulido) goes down with a broken arm. Either Oribe Peralta or Cubo will get the call to be the #9 for the Gold Cup.
Pretty sure Ching didn't have 5 PK goals that year. Misleading stat Erick Torres' 12th goal puts him one away from Brian Ching's all-time Dynamo single season record.— Corey Roepken (@RipSports) July 2, 2017
Partially true. But we've been terrible from the spot for a number of years so he deserves his credit for those.
I dont think anyone here wants him back. I think we have too many (of the too few still around) that are never satisfied with anything the team does for varying reasons.