The Doping Thread

Discussion in 'Cycling' started by Dead Fingers, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah I agree with that. However Nadal was way, way inferior to Gasquet at the age of 14 and 15. Then suddenly the bull like transformation happenned, and a surreal improvement in moonballing technique and his stereotypical game (see post of 18 april above). Messi wasn't known or registered by the AFA when he left the country (or they just deleted his card), unlike other youngsters.

    Somewhere I believe djoko his gluten story (a bit) given his occassional slips and body language, but Froome is beyond credibility. Wasn't there some 2011 brailsford graph as well somewhere?
     
  2. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    Yeah I have posted that at least a dozen times on here.

    Brailsford, just a few months before that Vuelta, thought Froome wasn't even good enough to be a domestique and someone you kept around for morale.
     
  3. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    The thing is most fans don't give a fcuk about doping which emboldens the most brazen cheats like Sky.

    Almost all of the public opinion was favorable for Sharapova and I see very similar now that one of the top badminton female players has been caught for steroids.

    Fans both in the west nor the east are happy to believe in the flimsy excuses.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thing is that Djokovic sometimes looks as if he's really a gluten intolerant person, such as at Wimbledon lately. At his worst days he doesn't look nearly as sharp, looks bleak and is sweating all over the place. Difficult to describe it accurately, but ppl often tell me I am good in reading someone's body language so I don't rule out he actually has some (minor) intolerance. He looks like the old Djokovic at those days.

    The problematic thing is surely - and has always been - the double standards, soft-soaping and bribery that is involved in the sports business. Sometimes it is even spilling over to death threats and downright assassinations (as in Russia). Sponsors have always taken a hypocritical stance and embroiled in a conflict of interest - no question.

    Furthermore, the masses think that if everyone is using EPO, it is automatically fair. That is not necessarily true, and there is a good bit of that in Tyler Hamilton his book. For a start: the ones who are born with a naturally high hematocrit level get screwed, or even run a higher risk to be taken out of a race. Also the idea that it has no benefits in 'technical sports' is evidently false.
    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-doping-thread.996096/page-25#post-33884186

    The Daily Telegraph had a good column about Sharapova, but I've heard from good sources that advertisers and lawyers pressurized them to tone it down.
    :thumbsup:

    [little anecdote: when the newsreader over here mentioned the claimed sensitivity to diabetes, you could see a laugh on her face :geek:]
     
  5. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014

    That's GlutenFreeGuy's first off-day in about 4 years !!

    Maybe there was a cock-up in his micro-doping .
     
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  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    2014 US Open: djokovic was tired as early as the third set against nishikori.
     
  7. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    You can't become the #3 player and a multiple GS champion with a gluten allergy.

    Using something like that to explain an overnight change is right from the Armstrong / Froome playbook.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    That is maybe right. Then I wonder who is involved in the scheme. With Froome (and Nadal / Lance) we know the names.
     
  9. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't stop with Nole. The Welsh rugby team went from good to being the best rugby team in the Northern Hemisphere after they discovered some kind of cryogenic bath treatment in Poland. Literally from one season to the next they developed superhuman levels of endurance. Seems legit.

    Oh, and Serena Williams winning slams in her thirties.

    Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
     
  10. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm wondering who's blood is in those bags in Spain.
     
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  11. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Whilst getting fitter ,faster and stronger !!

    Bollox
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    A somewhat cynical but realistic take by an excellent sports historian/expert yesterday (in a long interview and article).

    The conclusion:
    http://nos.nl/rio2016/artikel/21212...-boycots-rusland-is-zeker-niet-de-eerste.html
    https://decorrespondent.nl/4975/Oly...een-lobby-kan-mislukken/405492165925-b5e2c360

    Trivia: Joao Havelange was between 1963 and 2011 IOC member. By far the longest serving member ever.
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Rio 2016: Russia by no means the only doping offenders at the Olympics – past or present

    The World Anti-doping Agency’s (Wada) annual report from 2013 should make for interesting reading. It confirms that Russian transgressions as far as doping violations are concerned are the highest in the world.

    Of the 207,513 samples tested that year across all sports, 2,540 were found to have an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF), the common term for a failed doping test. Russia had the highest number of violations, with 225 positive tests for banned substances. Turkey was in second place with 188 cases and – this may seem surprising – France in third with 108.

    In athletics that year, Turkey actually had more positives tests – 53 – than Russia, who had 42 (though of course the whole point of Russia’s doping duplicity was that a large number of dirty samples were swapped with clean ones). India was third with 30.

    The report for 2014 was released earlier this year. Russia has the highest number of violations again with 148 (and presumably more that were tampered ‘clean’). But on paper, Italy was not far behind with 123; India, again, had 96 and both Belgium and France 91. In athletics alone, Russia had 39, India 29 and Italy 15.

    None of this is to absolve Russia, or to deny the depth and breadth of problems there. Not least among them is the key point that the doping regime seems very much to have been state-sanctioned and enabled. There is no evidence to suggest that is happening in any of the other nations high on those tables.

    Neither should these numbers allow us to draw moral equivalences. But what they should do is drive home a point that has been raised by the author of Wada’s damning investigation into doping, made in the report of November 2015, and one that has snuck past us on the outer edges of the glare on Russia.

    "Kenya has a real problem and have been very slow to acknowledge it," Richard Pound, author of the report and the first Wada chief, wrote. "It’s probably the tip of the iceberg. Russia is not the only country and athletics is not the only sport with a doping problem."

    Speaking to the BBC, he said: "This iceberg spreads in two different directions. I suspect there are probably four, five or six nations that athletics has a problem with.

    "Every other international sport today should be looking at Russian sport and looking at whether the men and women who compete in their events are clean. They do not have robust anti-doping regimes. They are asleep on the job – and they have to be rooted out."

    That is to say that though Russia may be the worst of the offenders, they are by no means the only ones. Already though the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has created a convoluted moral universe, given to dark ironies.

    One such is that Justin Gatlin and LaShawn Merritt, among others, will be allowed to compete at Rio despite past doping convictions. Yet the athlete-turned-whistle-blower who shed light on Russian violations, Yulia Stepanova, will not be allowed to compete because of a rule that bars all Russian athletes with previous convictions from competing.

    History should be a necessary guide in navigating this situation. The "dirtiest race in history" – the 100m final at the 1988 Seoul Olympics – had no sprinter from the former Soviet Union in it after all.

    Balco was a nutritional supplement company in Bay Area, San Francisco, supplying to US athletes. In 2013, it was in Jamaica that a senior anti-doping official, after a rash of positive tests among their athletes, said that it could be the "tip of the iceberg".

    Perhaps worth recalling the most at this stage, other than East Germany’s doping regime in the 1960s and 1970s are the revelations of Dr Wade Exum, a former director of drug control of the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) from 1991 to 2000.

    In 2003, Exum released a huge tranche of documents from his time as director to Sports Illustrated that he claimed showed a number of US athletes had tested positive but been allowed to compete by USOC anyway.

    Exum said there had been 114 positive tests of US athletes between 1998-2000 alone, including 18 who tested positive at the Olympic trials but still competed in the Games.

    Among those tests, Exum said, were those of the legendary Carl Lewis, who tested positive three times at the Olympic trials for the 1988 Seoul Games yet was let off only with a warning. Defending himself at the time Lewis said he was merely one of "hundreds" who had got away with it at the time.

    At the time Pound was Wada’s chairman and in an interview he said of the documents Exum had made public: "It’s what many people suspected about the US Olympic Committee, that it was being covered up. There were lots of rumours around."

    The state may not have been involved, but here was an administrative body accused by one of its own of having instigated a cover-up of positive doping tests, a charge that exists in a no dissimilar world to the ones against Russia.

    There is no excusing what Russia has done, and no shirking from the scale of it. Though it did not come to pass, the case for a wholesale ban on Russia from the Games could have been justified.

    But what it does not mean, not even remotely, is that their case is unique, now, or in the annals of history.

    http://www.thenational.ae/sport/oly...enders-at-the-olympics--past-or-present#page2


    IOC, WADA and IOC were aware of the extent of the Russia case back in 2013:
    http://www.sportingintelligence.com...he-story-of-russia-doping-and-the-ioc-250701/


    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...says-coverup-protected-big-stars-seoul-games/



     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    @cr7torossi

    What's your idea about Usain Bolt? I think he is a once in a lifetime talent; it is so smooth, he already was as a teenager. But it is peculiar that the fastest Jamaican men ever is this list:

    Nickel Ashmeade - not busted [9.90 personal record]
    Michael Frater - not busted [9.88 personal record]
    Steve Mullings - busted
    Nesta Carter - busted (case pending)
    Asafa Powell - busted
    Yohan Blake - busted
    Usain Bolt - not busted [9.58]

    Non-Jamaicans in descending order: Tyson Gay (busted), Justin Gatlin (busted twice), Maurice Greene [personal record 9.79]. Ppl have proposed the conspiracy theory that Bolt might be too big to fail.

    http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_100ok.htm


    This is also good:


     
  15. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    My only concerns are the tennis player Djokovic and Mo Farah.
     
  16. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    He is juiced and is too big to fail - athletics will be doomed if Bolt was ever caught. He is the only reason why that sport is still relevant.

    That said, I do not feel any anger towards Bolt and am able to admire his achievements. As you say, it is very clear that he is once in a lifetime talent and his career has progressed as such a talent should.

    Also helps that his personality is a lot better than Armstrong/Froome, even Djokovic.
     
  17. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't buy the "too big to fail" argument. It's entirely likely that he's better at getting away with it.

    But yeah, like Lance, if all or most of, the guys that he's crushing are doping, what are the odds that he's clean?
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Interesting. What would you say that is more likeable about his personality compared to Djoko?

    Possibly - was my own feeling. Back in 2011 they had the guts to DSQ him. They didn't give him "Olympic style" favors and tinkering with the rules, with juries using their discretionary competence to neglect their own regulations. Without a 10 minutes break or so (... track cycling...), or contemplation, they DSQd him immediately.

    Historical and proven cases of "too big to fail" are linked to money and power (marketing etc.). Jamaica has neither. They are a very tiny dot on the map and not as well-represented as - say - Uruguay (who is part of the strong South American coalition). They didn't buy their way into the IAAF, buying influence.

    However, cr7torossi has a point that he's the only male superstar of athletics and esp. after 2010 a lot is hanging on to him. Especially with other top dogs having a tainted CV (Gatlin was constantly booed and harassed), who don't have the same magnetisism to pull crowds.
     
  19. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Moishe, chungachanga and aveslacker repped this.
  21. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014

    So .... Mo Farah in the news again ..


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  22. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014

    Yep it's crazy to see that over 500 of the worlds leading ( ELITE) athletes ( across all sports) last year applied to take asthma medicines ....


    Also why has Bradley Wiggins taken asthma drugs when he's supposed to have a freakishly sized lung capacity ???


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  23. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Lung size has very little to do with asthma, it is the airways and the inflammation in them that causes all the problems. If the airways are inflamed then the ability of the airflow is greatly diminished coming and going from the lungs. If a person cannot fully inhale then having larger lungs means very little.

    Exercise induced asthma is very real and common. I have dealt with it on and off for many years, these days I can take a variety of medications or even OTC allergy stuff and be fine. Of course when I was racing mountain bikes that really wasn't an option.
     
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