The "Don't Blame Me" Generation...

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Dr. Wankler, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    ... and the parents who raised them:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030302048_pf.html

    Saw this in my local paper today, tracked it down to it's source in the Post. I haven't seen it anywhere, and this forum seems like a good place to put it.

    I once got a call from a couple whose son, a student at an elite college, had run up a huge credit card debt. His parents realized they had a problem and called to make an appointment for therapy. I told them that I wanted to see them along with their son. But when the parents showed up, they told me that their son had refused to come. "Tell me," I said halfway through our discussion. "If you had insisted, would your child be here?" The mother answered quickly, "Well, yes." The dad paused, then said, "That's a very good question."

    ...


    A generation ago, this kind of behavior would have been almost inconceivable. Parents' tougher approach taught us lessons critical for later life -- like that lying doesn't pay and that you have to respect your boss even if you don't like him or her. Today's adults who coddle young people fail to see that they are handicapping them.
     
  2. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not my fault that this generation exists. ;)
     
  3. vilafria

    vilafria Member+

    Jun 2, 2005
    I agree. Take away the sweets and bring on the veggies, and if your adult kids don't want to leave home, then you leave them there and look for another place without them.
     
  4. flowergirl

    flowergirl Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    panama city, FL
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    dude. (ha)

    don't pay for college. it certainly means a lot more when you have to pay for it yourself. i should know. :)

    i can't believe how much crap parents pay for for their kids now. i had to work if i wanted things other than the basics. why is it so terrible for your kids to have to earn stuff on their own?
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It amazes me how many kids will speak disrespectfully to adults in front of their own parents. My son's soccer coach does a great job of dealing with this, but it's clear that there are a couple of kids on the team who are a little new to the concept of listening respectfully to their elders. Even when this particular elder gets to decide who plays, and who sits.
     
  6. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Yeah, my brother blogged that article when it came out. Of course, I just ragged on my brother for whining so much about his job. "The profession isn't respected any more; kids are disrespectful; etc." And then I told him - so get a job in the real world, "where you are guarantied respect from your bosses, peers, underlings and clients, and everyone respect your profession and the work you do." :rolleyes:

    He's not an educator by desire - he falls back into it when other things aren't working for him - then bitches because it's not some ivory-tower, kids agape at his every drop of wisdom, kind of job.

    Don't get me wrong - I agree with the points in the article. Parents raising their kids horribly, blah, blah ... But when I asked my brother whether or not he thought his own son's teacher was probably thinking the same thing even about his son, he had to agree.
     
  7. dj43

    dj43 New Member

    Aug 9, 2002
    Nor Cal
    The number one issue is parents who are so caught up in all the pop psych about trying to be their child's "best friend" instead of teaching discipline. They buy into the garbage about self-esteem being some inate characteristic from birth instead of something one gets from doing something worthwhile.

    In the end, they give up and send their kids off to school hoping the teacher can do what they didn't.

    And the generation that now has kids in elementary grades were raised the same way they are now raising their kids. The author of this article is right on point.
     
  8. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hadn't read the article when I "responded" before. And now that I have - well, I recognize this trend in some parents and in some students. But I could also write a very similar opinion piece about today's kids drawn exclusively from the many examples of people I know who act the opposite of what Dalton describes in her piece.
     
  9. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, I agree that this is a source of the behavior described in the article. Coaching kids' soccer in Ann Arbor exposes one to a lot of it (although the majority of kids and parents made the experience loads of fun, I should add).

    Another source is the kind of parenting that prioritizes family loyalty above any kind of standard of behavior: you back your kid because he's your kid, regardless of what your kid's done: parents who are non-judgmental about their kids' behavior not because they bought into some theory but because they're outraged by the thought of anybody/thing limiting their child's happiness. My wife spoke with a guy who's the faculty advisor on a HS yearbook. A couple of years ago, he killed a personal ad in the back of the book from 2 girls, because it was explicit about the blow jobs, alcohol, etc. they'd remember fondly in years to come (no kidding). One of the girls' mothers went nuts about the fact that ad was cancelled and tried to sue.

    But I also agree with Ismitje's point that this (including the article and my comments) is all based on anecdotal evidence. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a study like the U of M Monitoring the Future study, but that's about more general behaviors than substance use (which is the focus of MTF)?
     
  10. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From which direction?Kids who are pretty decent despite how they are treated by their parents?

    Or kids who have been stuck with so much "responsibility" and "consequences" that they don't have any sense of autonomy?
     
  11. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this your cynical optimism showing through? ;)

    I know plenty of respectful kids who were taught to be such by their parents. I think we need to identify whether the kids in Dalton's piece - who we've all encountered - are the exception that became the rule, or the way most kids are (hence meriting a "generation" moniker). And, perhaps, how long this behavior has been common (1950s? 1960s?). If it's forty or fifty years old now, this trend, then you've got the children on the "Don't Blame Me" Generation instead.

    When I have coached or taught, I find more responsible thna irresponsible kids. Not when refereeing, however - and then they follow the model established for them by their parents and other adults.
     
  12. Anteaters FC

    Anteaters FC New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Santa Monica
    So, if it's today's kids that are learning this from their parents...doesn't that mean that the parents didn't learn it from their parents (the kids' grandparents)? So then, things really were never all that perfect a generation ago, were they?
     
  13. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It also might mean that through independent observation some kids have learned that a)lying pays sometimes and b)plenty of people in authority deserve nothing but contempt.
     
  14. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Blaming the ref is a time honored tradition.The first soccer league in America fell apart due to among other things,violent fan reactions to ref's decisions.:)

    Part of the problem is that I don't think we have a societal consensus anymore on how kids are supposed to behave.
     
  15. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire

    check the article: you'll see that the opening paragraph deals with parents who schedule a counseling session due to their kid's irresponsible behavior with a credit card. Then the kid doesn't show up. It's pretty clear that the parents are baffled by the idea that they could've actually made their kid do something he doesn't want to do.

    It doesn't seem to crosst their mind that they could just take away the credit card. But the article, short as it is, does account for inadequate parenting as part of the problem.
     
  16. Anteaters FC

    Anteaters FC New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Santa Monica
    I'm generally resistant to any argument that essentially boils down to "things are horrible now with kids...back in the day, kids knew their place and never acted the way kids are acting now." Substitute parents for kids too, in the case of this article.

    But my point is that if you go back 40 years, there were most likely articles making the same points as this one.
     
  17. act smiley

    act smiley Member

    Feb 8, 2005
    Cardiff
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Too right. In 30 years, the Terrible Youth of Today will be the ones writing in to the Daily Mail complaining about their kids. There's always been bad parents (usually with bad kids), but you can't really write off an entire generation because of a handful of losers. I know a few people who don't like to accept responsibility, but I know a lot of really sound people who do.
     
  18. JohnW

    JohnW Member

    Apr 27, 2001
    St. Paul
    Hell, go all the way back to the Greeks.

    "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
    frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
    words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
    respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
    [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" Hesiod

    Other similar quotes attributed to Plato/Socrates
     
  19. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA


    No kidding. The crap I hear as an official........
     
  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Ah yes: the "helicopter parents" my colleagues in student services have grown so fond of. They might be interested in these ideas:

    College officials say they, too, are trying to find ways to handle ubiquitous parents. Freshmen orientations incorporate lessons for parents on how to separate and let their children make their own hair appointments.

    At Colgate University in Hamilton, N.Y., for example, administrators issue parents the university's philosophy on self-reliance when they drop off their children, spokeswoman Caroline Jenkins said.

    Colgate administrators also send out a memo to department heads at the beginning of each semester reiterating that "we will not solve problems for students because it robs students of an opportunity to learn."

    The Parent Program at Alma College in Michigan takes a comprehensive approach at orientation, complete with scripts that allow parents to role-play. A problem is presented and parents are asked, "Tell me what you've done already to solve this problem," said Patricia Chase, director of student development.


    There was a great article in last thursday's WSJ about helicopter parents calling EMPLOYERS now, too. Including one mother who called a company that offered her kid a job and started to renogiate the salary.
     
  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This past weekend was the second time that the coach of the team my kid is playing got expelled from the field for arguing and yelling. My kid is SEVEN.
     
  22. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    I saw a news piece on these people. They make wake-up calls to their college kids, because they kids apparently can't be bothered to get an alarm clock - and then call back every five minutes as if they are a human snooze button. They call their kids after every class to see what the homework is, then plan out when the kids will do that homework during the day. They even proof-read and check the homework for them. THESE "KIDS" ARE IN COLLEGE!!! They're old enough to vote and die in a war for their country, and their mommies are still waking them up in the morning so they won't be late for class?!?!?
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If my friend Alice (Associate Dean of Students) were a bigsoccer member, she would say "welcome to my world."

    Not every parent is like this -- it's probably nowhere near the majority of parents, even -- but it's only in the last five or six years that I've had parents call for things like progress reports, to complain about grades, etc. Thank God for Alice: she takes care of these things so I don't have to.
     
  24. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    I actually don't have a problem with that. Every study over the past 30 years has said one (if not the most) major cause of kids doing poorly is lack of parental involvement in their kid's eduction. I for one, would like to know more about my kids' progress than 3 or 4 report cards a year which have nothing more explanatory than a letter grade. Teachers have no reticense to send notes home with kids when they think the parents need to deal with behavior problems - I want similar information for their general performance, so I can address things that need to be addressed. I don't expect any teacher to have much time to personally hand-hold any one child to ensure his/her learning during the year, when they have 30+ students - but I can address my own kid's learning, if I know what's going on in school. And that needs to come from the teacher, since a child can hide anything from you. Furthermore, if you're talking private schools, a parent needs to evaluate the curriculum and how it's being taught - not to complain to the teacher (which is almost always out of line), but if I think it's substandard and I'm paying for it, then I need to know so I can pull him out of that school.

    Of course, if a parent is asking for a progress report every week, you tell them to go to hell.

    EDIT: Of course, the above only applies to grade school (my oldest is still in kindergarten). And rereading your post, I gather you are working for and discussing the issue in a college, where the parents shouldn't be involved at all, in my opinion. My confusion!
     

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