Dempsey and Bradley aren't as talented as Donovan. That's the difference. When a player with Donovan's talent fails to impress over a period of several games, it's going to be put down to a lack of motivation.
I wouldn't say talented--I would say athletically gifted. Dempsey has talent, can score goals, Bradley has a serious engine, and has great vision--but neither are anywhere close to the complete athlete that donovan was. His speed alone was among the elite.
Donovan's main attribute, for me, is his intelligence. He sees stuff others don't, and at times seems to be ahead the others by several moves. Yes, he was fast, and quite agile, but it's his mind that made him our best player. If he had the strong character needed to control a bunch of 20-somethings, he'd make a top coach. Sadly, I don't think he does.
What would happen if Klinsmann made that statement? I guess saying "he could have done a bit more here and a bit more there" suddenly does not sound as bad!
1) I don't think that's what Klinsmann meant. He meant he wished Donovan had stayed in Europe and spent his career with a top team there rather than wasting his time in MLS. 2) There's a difference between us saying it here and Klinsmann (the guy who dropped him from his final World Cup) saying it to the press the day before Donovan's final USMNT game.
As Suyuntuy pointed out, what made Donovan special is his intellect and his ability to take a natural gift (his speed) and hone it to make himself into such an effective weapon despite some of his other weaknesses. He crafted an entire playing style around his speed and workrate to not only make himself formidable at the top levels of play, but I'd argue he was the perfect weapon for the USMNT over the same period. I'd argue that a Zidane or Messi, while obviously much better players, would not have been the asset to the USMNT that Donovan was because of the way he simplified the game for his teammates and made them better, more effective players. Particularly later in his career (say since 2009 or so) Donovan was a player that seemed to enjoy helping other players shine more than himself, which has been frustrating for Galaxy fans as he is also a terrific striker when selfish. People also shouldn't underrate how much of a technician Donovan is, though. I would rank him ahead of Bradley and Dempsey as pure technicians as well. But his autodidactic approach to maximizing the effectiveness of his physical gifts, mostly without serious guidance, is something people take for granted, I think. It's something Jozy Altidore and many other players with more natural physical gifts who never amount to much haven't figure out, for example.
" [QUOTE="... But his autodidactic approach to maximizing the effectiveness of his physical gifts, mostly without serious guidance, is something people take for granted, I think... [/QUOTE] I'm not sure you get all bonus points for the use of a word such as "autodidactic" and the reference to the process of self-educated learning methodologies. Donovan has been in organized soccer for a long time. He has been coached by a slew of professional coaches and their respective staffs. Under these coaches he has received all kinds of training methods including periodized soccer specific physical fitness plans...just as have all modern professional soccer players. To say he gained an edge through his own study and development of self-directed training methods, as opposed to following the training demands of his fitness coaches is highly debatable.
Yes. He was wicked with his crosses for the NT with his left foot. He was great with both feet which now a days is a rarity. When I say atheltically gifted, I say that in the sense that only a hand ful of guys at his best were that fast. His technical skill, readying of the game was pretty up there, but his greatest strength was his raw athletic ability. It was insane. Is he your classic 'smooth operator' midfielder with his technique? No. He keeps his game simple, but could hang with some very talented players around him and at the same time bring it down liek yo usay at the USMNT level where it isn't as high as say in the EPL. He did have that ability to adapt, which was great when he was motivated and happy. If he wasn't happy and mentally not there, he had trouble. Which makes me wonder how he would have done if he stayed in europe aka Everton. He was happy and was playing like it/you could see his class, his vision, speed, etc. He was soooo good for them in that little bit of time...it left me hungry for more. I personally think he could have been a great mid for one of the bigger clubs in the EPL or say italy. Very talented.
Then let's debate it. It's pretty well-known that Donovan crafted personal training regimes above-and-outside of what his club and NT trainers coordinated for/with him. He's also talked about how he invested his personal money in Yoga and pilates classes for coordination and strength training early in his career before either became en vogue and crafted his own high-protein diet, moving away from the heavy carbo-loading diets which athletes are only now beginning to do. It takes nothing away from the folks that have mentored him. But what's your theory for why he surpassed the vast majority of his peers, who received the same training? For that matter, he's surpassed players from abroad who've received, presumably, more robust training/coaching.
I think there are two ways to look at this. First of all, he was very good at "knowing his body" and always looking for ways to improve his training. He was aggressive about learning new training techniques, was an early adopter of those methods, and was extremely rigorous about following them. That's a classic autodidact. On the flip side, he was in tightly controlled training regimes from a very early age, and the technical skills that he focused on were all the most commonly used skills needed in a game situation. He never taught himself tricks. He didn't do bike-kicks. He has a very orthodox (almost canonical) playing style. In that sense, an outside observer might look at Dempsey and say he, not Donovan was more of an autodidact. Dempsey taught himself all the "cool tricks" outside of practice. He actually recently said that one of the things that factored in his decision to come back to MLS was that he believed he'd have more freedom to "express himself" with his game in MLS.
Source? Early in Donovan's career would be 1999. At 17, I'm going to argue that it was unlikely Donovan was doing yoga and/or Pilates back then. So, let's give him a pass until he's 21 (although 25 is more like it) on the autodidactic scale, ok? That brings us to 2003. Physio-ball training, core training, cross training, balanced nutrition (including ingesting protein shortly after workouts et al); hot and cold training room modalities for pre-hab and rehab (ultrasound, electric stim, whirlpools), year round strength training were all en vogue and still are. Yoga has been in Vogue, and en vogue since the 1990's in middle class America. Hardly revolutionary. I was hard pressed to find any scientific study that proved Pilates improved sport performance. Your source? I'm not ready to chalk up his advantages as a player to his home study discoveries. I would say, as the best US player ever, it was more likely his genetic make-up/predisposition that separated him from his peers. Regardless of his choice of diet, use of fitness routines, yoga, Pilates, etc., They've all had access to the best training environments, the advice of fitness experts and the testimonials of those swearing by a whole slew of training/exercise/ dietary fads. Donovan's raison d'etre? He left it out there on the field for us to see.
I think all of the Americans from that generation and before were largely self-taught to some extent or other. Certainly I would give Dempsey that credit. The generation of "homegrown" Americans that have excelled at the top level did so without the exposure to the game their peers from other countries enjoyed, or even without the widespread availability of televised games from other leagues, YouTube and other resources that young American prospects can take advantage of today. Between Donovan and Dempsey specifically, I think both men crafted their playing style to best maximize their respective tools. Trickiness and guile was more of an asset to Dempsey than Donovan, I think. When Donovan stayed after training, he was practicing dead balls and turning himself into an immaculate passer instead of practicing elasticos and Cruyff turns, but both require the excellent technique that only comes with repetition and the dedication to keep working when everyone else has gone home.
I think early on, Donovan was most influenced by Pierre Barrieu, the NT trainer. Here's an article on the regimes he crafted for Donovan and the other NT players. There are some good quotes from Donovan in there. Here are a couple articles about work Donovan has incorporated into his personal regime outside of his club and NT training: Diet, endurance training and yoga: http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/endurance-training/Action-Hero.html There was a pretty good Donovan interview on Runner's World that I can't seem to find now, where he talks about running cross country and aspects of his endurance training in detail. The rest is stuff I've just heard from him/about him over the years from various sources that will be hard to reproduce for you without more effort than I'm willing to impart to this cause. More to point, do you believe I'm lying or purposefully misrepresenting my case here? What I'm saying is not terribly controversial. If you look at the guys who are elite players, they always do some kind of additional work outside of what's prescribed by their club/NT trainers. CR7s regime is somewhat legendary. What is remarkable to me about Donovan is that he molded himself into the perfect weapon for his national team without being seriously guided by anyone to do so (maybe Bruce Arena was really influential in this aspect, but I've never heard much about that). Staying home to play domestically was all part of that. It's like the guy just new exactly what he wanted to do from the very beginning and did just about everything to realize it, which is very rare. I don't think I claimed it was revolutionary, but Yoga still isn't a routine part of most athletic regimes today (if it were as conventional as you claim, why do you doubt Donovan practiced it as a 17 y/o?). I don't think I claimed it did. Regardless, your relative ability or inability to find a study on the subject doesn't mean a lot to me. What are you ready for? I think even Donovan's most recent comments about mental health show his foresight to take a holistic approach to fitness that is still not only not widely accepted, but is openly derided. I've no doubt that more rigorous mental health diagnosis and treatment will be a competitive edge for athletes in a few years. If we were smart, we'd jump on this now. We've had players with more genetic gifts than Donovan; the difference is he had the tactical awareness to understand how to exploit his speed to a much greater extent than the guys around him.
I know that I should let this go, but... In the 12 months leading to the WC roster decision the following is the combined goals and assists for Donovan and these 6 players that were picked for the WC roster that he could have viably replaced (meaning guys that can play attacking/creative roles for the team): Donovan: 17 Bedoya: 5 Davis: 2 Diskerud: 1 Johanson: 3 Zusi: 4 Green: 0 That's right. Donovan had 17 combined goals and assists, and those other six guys had a TOTAL of 15 between them. Not only that, but a number of the other guys' goals and assists were largely due to Donovan's play with them. I know that people still want to support JK's decision on this, but in ten years, people are going to look back at his decision as being completely unfathomable. Klinsmann's assertion that any one of these guys was "a little ahead" of Donovan at the time of roster selection is laughable. ... and yes, this still keeps me up at night.
Not claiming LD didn't do more with his talent and physical attributes than others (I owed you at least one double-negative). I, at this point, am ready to agree to disagree.
Here we go, again . . . http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...an-players-for-poor-club-play-post-world-cup/ “Right now at the end of 2014, looking at the last couple of months is a bit of a concern to us,” Klinsmann said in a video released by US Soccer. “A lot of our players who played very well in the World Cup and were consistent and worked very hard really dropped their performances after the World Cup.” Often in the past Klinsmann has been upset that players aren’t challenging themselves abroad. But he doesn’t just expect players to sign with teams in Europe and that’s that. If you take the challenge, you also must pass it. “Even if they are starters with their teams, or in many cases unfortunately are not starters in their teams anymore – and I’m looking more at the European players in that moment – this is something that we have to improve over the next years,” Klinsmann warned. “Our players have to become stronger to deal with the big moments and then going back into their season and making sure that they play in their club teams on the highest level and especially as starters.” But it’s not just players abroad who have fallen off. He encompassed the entirety of the squad, not singling out any certain players or group when stating everyone needs to improve – and he won’t hesitate to tell them that. “This is going to be a huge topic when we communicate with the players now going into these two games,” Klinsmann said. “Talking to them and telling them, ‘Listen, it takes more to become consistent. It takes more professionalism and strength to come after World Cup and show those performances again in your club level.'” Wait, Jurgen, Who has stepped up his play?
Hard to imagine who was just a "little bit better" back in late May during the WC tryouts. http://www.latintimes.com/mls-cup-p...gend-nets-hat-trick-beat-rsl-5-0-video-274638 CARSON – It was Landon Donovan to the rescue on Saturday night in Los Angeles. The soon to be retired icon of soccer scored a hat-trick in front of a sellout crowd at the StubHub Center and made sure his team would advance to the Western Conference Championship against either Seattle or FC Dallas. Not to be outdone, Donovan capped the evening off with his third and final goal in the 72nd minute, giving the legendary #10 a hat-trick. Donovan pounded his chest as the hometown crowd roared in excitement. They would get to see their hero at least one more time. “One more year,” chanted the home crowd after the goal. Donovan came off the pitch in the 82nd minute for super-sub, Alan Gordon to a standing ovation.
Not taking Donovan was a fire-able offense. I said so at the time, and I still believe it now. I don't need 10 years. And no, I'm not over-reacting to tonight. No offense to Bedoya, or Davis, or Diskerud, or Zusi, or AJ, or Green, or Wondo, but none of them are near the player Landon is, even at this late stage. As evidenced by LD leading the league in assists this year.
Once again showing the unequaled stupidity of leaving LD at home, saying he was a "little bit behind" others. What might have been...
I was thinking maybe he looked a little fat before the game . . . No, wait, that's Landon Donovan . . . Beckerman knows . . . (thinking Kyle's legs might be chunky)
Just putting this out there: in addition to the perfect hat trick (scored with head, right foot and left foot) Donovan also had two tackles, four key passes and nine recoveries.