The Cyle Larin Offseason 2017-18 Saga

I don't think there is any loophole going on, presumably they are planning to ask FIFA to issue a provisional ITC if the USSF (the "former association" in this case) refuses to issue one. There is at least one case where FIFA issued a provisional ITC (see paragraphs 16-27) for a player who was later found to have illegally jumped his contract. Note that it took about six weeks for FIFA to issue the provisional ITC after it was requested by Sion.

Whatever happens in the short term with the ITC is surely far more important than any potential future proceedings regarding Larin's contract. If Besiktas can get a provisional ITC they are probably in the driver's seat, while if they can't get one than they have no leverage.

 

Erik Palmer Brown reportedly signed a 4.5 year contract with Man City. Weston Mckennie signed a 5 year contract with Schalke. Emerson Hyndman signed a 4 year contract with Bournemouth. Miazga signed for 4.5 years with Chelsea. What is the difference between that and an MLS 3 + 2? They all make you a player of the team for 5 years, an MLS team can cut you in the last 2 years.

Is the problem that you can get cut in the last two years of the MLS contract? Is the problem that you can't get a short contract because there doesn't seem to be a problem signing long term deals in Europe.

If a team offers 4-5 mil at a minimum in MLS, most of the players get sold, especially if the team is from a league that actually pays the fees on time.

The Red Bulls traded away their best player and probably one of the best offensive players in the league to Orlando. The person who likely benefits the most is an 18 year old. The same people who say young kids don't get first team opportunities are now complaining that it is bad that he isn't competing for the spot in practice like they do in Europe.

You can't have it both ways.

 

They are the same ones who bitch about Carleton not getting a shot in Atlanta.

 

Inadvertently left out first division, probably assuming most knowledgeable people would realize the significant difference. Although the CPL will challenge that and the pedants can jump on that. With regard to Mexico, sure they import some high end talent that can overcome barriers around the world. But people that understand their league understand the their clubs are focused on developing Mexican kids. This is why a lot of local talented non-Mexican Hispanics struggle finding teams.

 

I suppose you'd similarly argue Liga Mx has free agency, so Mexican players out of contract can play with any team in Mexico despite the Pacto de Caballeros.
If you don't understand the significant difference in opportunity between a between a us kid with EU heritage that can get an EU passport or why Hispanics with Mexican heritage have far more negotiating power and opportunity compared to a similarly talented kid with El Salvadorian heritage, then the level of conversation is beyond you.

Or perhaps you are just some like JasonMa who pointed out with such great insight that a first division caliber US player can always play in the second division if he wants to play in his own country and not the one team MLS says he can play - even if that team is in Canada. Since you seem to have been around various parts of the world, perhaps you can tell me which country in Europe (or anywhere else for that matter) can a player be precluded from playing in their own countries first division if they have the talent to do so?

 

Basically the whole structure of MLS is designed to control salaries. Since the cannot control salaries of most players in the world, it should be pretty obvious the reason they have been clinging to their structure is that is has been effective in holding down salaries of US players.

A few years ago I did a post on the highest paid keepers in US league History. Despite US keepers like Friedel, Keller, Howard, Guzan etc.almost all the highest paid keepers at that time were foreign keepers - some of whom where among the worst keepers in the league that got on the field. Now analysis of salaries of American players are complicated but the fact that once a player leaves, the league will be competitive rates to bring them back. It is further complicated by the fact that if they are nats, like Howard, Altidore or Dempsey, the league will way over pay.

 

That's the key. There is a continuum from indentured servants to entertainers with mega contracts that you can argue were agreed to by people of their own free will. I think most reasonable people would agree if the NFL,(which has never had less that 98% of the players from North America*), could hire replacement players and break a strike, MLS could do that in heart beat. As such, I don't think there is much disagreement about the significantly uneven negotiating leverage.

I think most reasonable people that if a person is placed in a position where they are virtually certain to lose their job, it could reasonable be considered to be some level of duress. If you compound that by saying it is the only paying job available in the country (without taking a big pay cut and much lower quality working conditions) the level of coercion. So if the players only way to get a somewhat equitable agreement is to act like DeRo, Eddie Johnson or Larin, the league is getting what it deserves.

* This is an interesting article on NFL exceptionalism to globalization

 

But his point was that far and away most are chosing MLS at this time. The young squad player salaries are not horrible these days, which they they were a decade ago-
True, the young players who break out and play like top pros look really cheap. But at least those who are squaddies aren´t having to pick up a real job in the afternoons after training in order to pay the rent

 

Except that while MLS could bring in players from around the world to break an MLS strike, they have not smashed the Players Union, and in negotiating contracts they are in competition with every league around the world.
Players might earn much less than they would in bigger leagues by signing with MLS, but they also earn much more than they would in other leagues by signing with MLS. Moreso than the NFL,MLS is part of a global market. Wages are not set in a vacuum but in a very open and very public compeitition. You would like to add an additional 21 clubs to the hundreds of options players can find at their level.
More and more young players are coming to MLS clubs through homegrown player contracts, and the drafts are less and less important. How is a homegrown player contract in MLS different from a young kid signing with his home club anywhere else? The difference is not as much practical as optical.

 

I’m not sure of exact numbers but not sure “most” is the appropriate word. MLS has gotten much more aggressive signing players younger due to them going abroad and they definitely aren’t getting most of the very top players.

The league has and will likely continue to improve in this area. However, MLS 15-20 years ago isn’t the benchmark. Yeah, kids aren’t making $18k a year with a side job and living with three roommates, but they still aren’t making what “major” league athletes make in this country.

 

But MLS is the benchmark when talking about MLS. By most I meant most young players capable and pursued by MLS. Far fewer of this group head overseas, and as those who are not discovered, clearly unknowable. You may be right that the very top head overseas and give MLS a pass, though clearly not all of them do. It does go towards indicating that there is choice in the matter, however

 

That’s irrelevant. We are talking about the market for SOCCER players. Sure, MLSers make less than guys in the NBA, but they make more than rookie policeman or schoolteachers! Who cares.

 

DONE DEAL: Ballou Jean-Yves Tabla has joined Barcelona from Montreal Impact, signing a three-year contract with the option to extend it for a further two years.

His buyout clause is €25m for the first three years €75m after. pic.twitter.com/8sw1kLp9rC

— Squawka Live (@Squawka_Live) January 25, 2018

 

Good point. Does these incoming players bring a financial boom to the club once they've joined? I can't imagine loads of people watched TFC play due to Jozy during his first season.

BTW how much were the keepers earning? I recall Keller was getting 300 K a year when he joined Sounders which seems real cheap, though it was 8/9 years ago and the league was way different.

 

What is the difference?

Salaries!!! guaranteed pay!!! The team committing to you!!! The teams valuing you consistently with the global market! They usually sell you when you request to leave (is there going to be a Lee Nguyen Saga thread?). The teams responses when you outperform!

Pulisic signed his first contract for just over $1M per year to run through the end of the the 18/19 season. In November of 2016, the club began trying to extend the deal (less than 12 months of his first team debut). In January of 2017, his contract was extended one year and his pay went up by not 10% or 40%, but more than 500%.

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/u...ed-from-christian-pulisics-60-minutes-segment

 

Policeman and school teachers are even more irrelevant.

Let’s compare those salaries to global soccer. I saw EPB, Miazga, and Hyndman mentioned above. We could throw in Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, etc.

 

I’ve already acknowledged that MLS has improved, but per me previous post, the benchmark is global soccer, which MLS still falls way behind in terms of young players and mobility.

 

What if Pulisic didn't want to sign the contract? He would likely have been benched/sent down to the second team and probably sold for more than 3 mil. There is mutual benefit to signing Pulisic to a contract extension. Dortmund can sell him for more and Pulisic can get a larger salary.

How many MLS players actually get offers for more than 3 mil? When I mean actual offers, I mean reports from actual journalists and not anonymous people like MLSTransfers. If MLS values the player for 4-5 mil, why would they give a high pay extension for a player when they can't even get an offer for 4-5 mil. Porto wouldn't pay an agreed upon price pre-loan of 2 mil for Palmer Brown who months later was one of the best players at the U-20 WC. The valuation isn't the same.

When players are getting 3.5-5 mil offers, MLS hasn't really gotten in the way.

The interesting part is what happens when Atlanta sells it's DPs.

As for players wanting out and teams not complying. There was the Suarez-Arsenal-Liverpool saga, Ronaldo-RM-ManU, Luca Modric-Chelsea-Tottenham, Fabregas - Barcelona-Arsenal. All those players played the season for their current team. That's just off the top of my head. I think Burns is an idiot, but this isn't something new or unique.

 

500%? who the heck is his agent?

So the first contract, was it a pro contract despite him playing for their youth/academy team?

 

This isn't true. Yaya Toure and his agent made it very obvious that he wanted out of Manchester City this summer, but ManC set his price so high that no club was able to buy him. How many times did Carlos Tevez say that he wanted out of ManC before they finally sold him in 2013? hell, got so bad at one point that he refused to be subbed in and ManC suspended him for several weeks, but yet, at the start of the next season, there he was in a ManC uniform..

 

They are going to bench an international star with 2 years left on his contract???? In what universe do you live?

 

Larin and OCSC have negotiated for months on a new contract. He would have easily been a DP.

 

Now, yes, it isn't over not signing a new contract. However, he had 2 years left on his deal (and was a bigger international star than Pulisic is) and he was benched. Heck, he was demoted and made to train with youth teams for less of a reason than not signing a new deal.