The current state of Women's D1 soccer

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Tom81, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    You are too kind!
    I am actually becoming a bigger soccer fan than I am a football fan. I never thought that was possible :) of course, part of that may be that FSU sucked in football this year.
     
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  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #77 cpthomas, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    Something with rankings along the line of the table I posted is that it's important to recognize that you have to take them all with a grain of salt. In this particular case, I think it should be a pretty small grain since the table has three different ranking systems, with Massey's being a completely different kind of system than the other two.

    For the Florida State as compared to Virginia debate, I think if you read across the table, it's about right for the 8-year period. Although Massey shows Florida State and Virginia tied with Virginia slightly more consistent (which means that Florida State ranges more on both sides of #7 than does Virginia), the other two systems have Florida State ranked above Virginia.

    So, if you look in that level of detail, I don't see much to argue about with what the table shows about those two teams so far as regular season performance over the last 8 years is concerned.

    The table would look a little different if the data included the NCAA Tournament, but I don't think it would look a lot different.
     
  3. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    UVA is arguably the most consistently good program in soccer--14 straight appearances in the Sweet 16 attests to that. Are there any other programs--Stanford, UCLA, UNC--that can make that claim? Whoever said that Swanson recruits "no-names"--I think that is what the poster said--is of course completely wrong: his classes are consistently stellar. One can only say the Cavs have underachieved if one puts a lot of value on getting to the College Cup and winning national titles. FSU, owing to its bevy of international players, has arguably moved a half notch ahead of not only UVA but UNC, who still rely almost totally on American kids--but that is a recent development.

    As for individual player ranking, eh, take 'em with a grain. That said, yea, Kuuika should have been much higher--she is FSU's best player, IMO, a defensive stud!
     
  4. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I dont think I said that. I used Latsko as an example of a player who was a lot better coming out than she was going in and has made herself a solid pro. She was among the less heralded players in her class going in ( obviously its relative to the classes at other brand name schools)

    That got twisted to no names somehow,

    All these schools recruit from the top of the barrel. Swanson continues to teach soccer and I respect that. The players that want it evolve.
     
  5. netminder1v1

    netminder1v1 New Member

    Oct 19, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Swanson sitting on the WNT bench next to Jill Ellis isn't a connection :)?

    Having said that, I do think UVA players are generally very good technically solid, possession type grup mentality kids. Yet, I have not seen a truly individually great one emerge including Morgan Brian. Although, this is simply an unsubstantiated opinion as I haven't done any research, I tend to believe that the UVA players are disproportionately represented on YNT. They don't seem to fit in the individual oriented player type that normally are chosen by the YNT coaches. That further suggests they might get a push from somewhere. The UVA midfield this year was weaker than usual and those kids were YNT regulars.That said, Jarrett and Spaanstra are excelling in his system and deserved the recent call ups. Jarrett is, if anything, underrated and I think you maybe even you would agree with me there...
     
  6. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I dont see how it its unless you think Ellis listens. if it was, why has Colaprico been overlooked? Disproportionately represented? Show us some evidence please. What kids were YNT regulars? i cant think of one UVA player who is a YNT regular outside of Spaanstra. You then go on to say kids deserve call ups. Which is it ? they get a push or they earn it?
     
  7. netminder1v1

    netminder1v1 New Member

    Oct 19, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I would say its a fair assumption that she listens or he wouldn't be there. I think its a far greater reach to say she has him there for his good looks and he is happy to sit there and be ignored. The camera has shown them talking on multiple occasions. She obviously values his opinions. I said I didn't do the math, but there sure seems like a lot of invited kids. Some get a push and some earn it. Doesn't have to be all or none now does it?

    Too much drama dude. They are good so be proud.
     
  8. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I have no idea what you mean by "there".What does Swanson helping the WNT from time to time have to do with youth selections? He is not there in any official capacity. He has no remit over what kids get selected for youth teams either. I think you are really stretching his involvement.

    As far as the drama comment, i think its you who is creating some conspiracy theory.
     
  9. cachundo

    cachundo Iconoclast

    Feb 8, 2002
    Stanford
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What happened to my upvote to crazyhorse's dense on purpose comment? Come back horsey. This thread desperately needs your fresh perspective :whistling:
     
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  10. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Member

    Dec 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was unnecessary and deleted. Merry Christmas everyone :)
     
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  11. cachundo

    cachundo Iconoclast

    Feb 8, 2002
    Stanford
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Not so sure about that ;)

    Agree! :thumbsdown: Enjoy the holidays everyone :)
     
  12. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Goalkeeper Laurel Ivory has been, or was, a YNT starter for 4 years, I think--and while I think she's a perfectly solid keeper, I also don't think there is anything special about her. Spaanstra was on the last U20 team but lost her starting job and did not play in the tournament. She's back on the new U20 roster--started the recent friendlies at the start of the new cycle.
     
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  13. sockerdad06

    sockerdad06 Member

    Sep 12, 2004
    this isn't accurate.... most college sport teams have a lot more players than their highschool/ club counterparts.

    college football has about 100 players per team
    college baseball about 25-30
    college basketball 15
    college track: 100
    college tennis 10
    college horses 80
     
  14. Fish On

    Fish On Member

    Oct 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Mantova

    Technique really poor. Most teams cannot keep possession. Lack the ability to make a simple 10-15 yard push pass. What are they doing at the youth level?
     
  15. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    I've read enough complaints about our age group national systems to believe there is a problem.
    This is not an area of my expertise!
    From my limited FSU perspective, I would ask why Jaelin Howell is not on there?
    Maybe she was, but turned it down, I don't know, but IMO she is a top CDM or Holding mid in the game. To me, she was the most important difference for FSU from last year to this year (Zhao a close 2nd).
    What about Penelope Hocking? Total stud.
    There are many others I haven't seen or don't remember.

    IMO, more people need to be cycled in and given a look in a competitive environment to see who holds up.
    Having the same people each and every time doesn't make sense. Put these kids in a competitive 'best against best' environment and see who thrives.
    I wouldn't particularly care about winning world U events as much as identifying and refining those who could eventually help the USWNT.
    Just my .02 cents
     
  16. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    She was on there for 2 world cups. she is too old. Its ironic that you want to see more rotation when players like Howell occupied slots for so long and in her tenure the US failed to ever get out of group play.
     
  17. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    Just asking questions.
    Aren't you the one who said they always had her playing CM? Put Zhao at CDM and Howell at Attacking MF and they do not excel. Reverse the roles and they are total studs!
     
  18. Least Coast Bias

    Least Coast Bias Red Card

    LAFC
    Uzbekistan
    Dec 11, 2018
    I agree about Zhao. She is world class. Howell fouls a ton and benefits from college referees not calling those fouls. If you truly scrutinize her international play she is a big reason why the US didn't advance either time. The fact that the coaches played her over Brianna Pinto just shows what US Soccer values. Pinto was the best player on UNC this year and one of the three best players on the U20 WNT that fared so poorly this cycle yet she didn't start!

    Nepotism kills us at the youth levels. Fortunately we have several excellent college coaches that make up for the lack of player development and identification on the YNTs.
     
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  19. Crazyhorse

    Crazyhorse Member

    Dec 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched JH in the U20, and while she did perform poorly, she was far from the reason they failed to advance, that would be on the attacking mids and defenders, but that is for another thread. JH has improved drastically from then to now, I credit her international teammates and coaching for that, she still has a ways to go to be considered one of the best in her age group.
     
  20. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    I did not watch U20s so I can't comment. I know that 007 said they played Jaelin at a midfield spot further forward, not DMF or HMF. It that's the case, then she was out of place, like a fish out of water.
    Comparing her to Pinto is like comparing her to Zhao Apples to oranges. She is a marvelous holding MFer.
    As to her fouling, I'll simply say she plays within the parameters the ref is allowing. She is indeed physical. She's also very good in the air. On corners and long balls, she is more likely to get a head on it than any other player.
    She also became really good at reading and intercepting passes forward from the opponents defense.
    I am speaking of the Jaelin from about 2/3s the way through the season to now.

    I usually agree with Crazy, but I'd like to see an age group player better than her at Holding midfield.

    Are you a fan of any particular college? Obviously not UNC, or you wouldn't be complaining about her physicality. To beat UNC you better be able to handle waves of physical (and skilled) players. Fortunately for us, we have them, and Jaelin was among the best.
    The CC media voted her the Most Outstanding Defensive player. Well deserved, although Kuikka was just as deserving IMO.
     
  21. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Unless I'm mistaken, UVa hosted YNT camps on their campus for a time.

    That is a massive, massive recruiting advantage.
     
  22. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Kind of blows me away Berkely didn't get more plaudits. She dominated the Stanford game - she made them change their system at halftime because she was carrying the ball up the middle of the pitch with ease. When they switched to two up front to stop her, she just casually pinged perfect passes over and around them. UNC, being more familiar with her, did a better job of preventing that, but she was still rock-solid defensively.
     
  23. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    Enzo, At least MB got All tournament team.
    If you want to talk about someone who didn't get All Tournament team, but deserved it, then look no further than Gabby Carle.
    Played excellent defense and was very dangerous in the final 3rd. Just ask Stanford.
    I know TDS is not anyone's favorite, but at least Malia is in the post season top 100. She checked in at 78, a little low, but at least present; meanwhile, Gabby is not to be found.
    I'm hoping TDS will rectify that with next year's preseason top 100.
    I thought She and Deyna deserved All Tourney team, but you can't have the whole FSU team on it.
    Deyna delivered an assist to Malia against Stanford and of course to DD against UNC.
    Her presence draws defenders to her and she is good at finding open people.

    FSU's defense at the end was the best of any team in the tourney.
    FSU's 14 team did not allow a single goal all tournament, but this team faced a harder slate of teams IMO, USC, PSU, Stanford and UNC.
     
  24. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    please tell us exactly when this happened. lots of hearsay and very little in the way of facts
     
  25. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Zhao has world class moments. for me she fades in and out of games a little too much for me to call her world class yet. its chicken and egg because i think under fifa sub rules, she would fare better as the other team would not be able to keep throwing fresh legs out there. She could control the tempo of the game much better. I enjoyed watching her play this year. Interesting that she played as a 9 for China in the u20 WC.

    on Howell, she is an effective destroyer, one of the best at it, but it would be like calling Kante the best player in the world. I reserve those accolades for more rounded players. As Ive said in the past, one of Krikorians strengths is putting player in roles in which they can succeed. He emphasizes strengths and hides weaknesses. Howell benefits greatly from this. So while i think she ahs improved, i also think she is learning how to play within parameters that suit her best. She has become a more efficient player.

    Pinto is more of a link player. A ball mover. very good technician. Nowhere near the defender Howell is, but better on the ball. I try not to get into this "best player" stuff because its all about players and the system they are in. Howell was great for FSU. Pinto was good for UNC. i still think at UNC the system is the star, not the players. you can put pretty limited players in that system and be effective under the current rules.
     
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