The current state of our youth national teams

Systemic rot.

 

It's not close to perfect, but it's not nearly that bad, either.

 

I consider not qualifying for the WC, getting beat by Canada, and having terrible youth results pretty bad.

 

"Terrible youth results" is just not even close to accurate.

Were you watching this U17 group in World Cup qualifying? Were you watching the U20s last spring and in their qualifying? Are you aware of the quality players who left off of these rosters?

 

Outside of that Senegal match, our youth results have not been close to terrible the past couple years.

 

The only terrible youth results we've had in the last 5 years were the 2015 u17 WC team getting bounced in the group stage. That age group was the 98/99's who just happened to produce Christian Pulisic, Weston McKennie, Tyler Adams, and Paxton Pomykal. This is not the best of websites to be an idiot about USYNT results on.

 

that ukraine result felt terrible until we found out the goalie was the second coming and the defense reminiscent of greece in 2004

 

Apparently though it is the place to think that an exception proves the rule. My pearls! Our 1999 team produced so many good players we will win the WC in 2010.

Nice to meet you, Jay.

 

Our pipeline has been awful. We had an entire generation gap just as we "developed".

 

I'm sorry, I was not more clear. On me. Mea culpa.

Our youth programs have done a shit job identifying talent out of a ginormous country with wealth and player-pool.

But it's pretty cool that they've won a couple games sometimes in tournaments. I guess.

 

In fact, Adams and Pulisic were on the 2015 roster that finished out their group (last place, two losses and a draw) by losing 4-1 to Chile. I don't think that many players of note have come out of the Chilean u17 squad that beat them.

Competitive results at the u-20 and u-23 level clearly mean something - our bad stretch at those levels was followed by very bad senior results and a big dry spell of talent. But getting worked up about u-17 WC results doesn't make much sense; that one matters more in terms of whether there appear to be one or more clearly special individuals.

 

What do you mean by this? Are there some huge talents that have gone unrecognized in the last few years?

Also, what does wealth have to do with this? If the game is not obsessed over, much less appreciated in this country, money can only do so much.

 

Bump

 

U20s are good.

 

That 2015 U17 team ..... Pulisic, Adams, and after that .... wow.

 

You don't get credit when a handful kids mostly thru their own hard work and dedication, make it.

By and large, when considering the ratio of resources to player quality, we're the worst program globally.

It occurred to me today after Pulisic put home his 4th Prem goal in 2 games that there's not a single American MLS attacking product who has played a min across the top 4 leagues this season.

Think about that.

 

Our youth teams are generally better than those from a few decades ago, but so are most other decent footballing nations, so what we get is our U17 team going three and out, just like in other U17 WC years. We're producing more players capable of playing at an introductory pro level (USL), and some at a decent pro level (MLS), but still few if any at a very good pro level.

I just went back and took a look at our 2003 U17 WC roster. I remember this team well because it was the height of Freddymania, with Adu playing up with guys like Jonathan Spector. Yes, there were a few others who had some decent pro minutes, but most either never played pro or if they did got a cup of coffee then adios. By contrast, we have more players now on all our youth teams who are already getting pro minutes or are tracking in that direction, so we have progressed. However, our goal should be to produce Pulisic-level players in significant numbers and not USL lifers or low level MLS players.

Like other fans I was annoyed by Wicky's roster selection, the style of play, the lack of team cohesion, lack of effort, etc. However, when I just watched players individually I watched the way they moved, their agility, quickness, suppleness, technical ability, decision making, etc., and I was so unimpressed by most. I just don't see most of them playing at a very high level, so in that sense the progress is much more limited than it should be.

 

Your point isn't even a good one.

Since when is two players as NT starters off a U-17 team below average? Most U-17 teams its probably worse.

The 98's are actually a pretty good age group. I also think that some other players from that team (Wright, Vazquez, Olosunde, Trusty, de la Torre, Nelson) have chances to differing degrees to eventually be NT players. We also can't be too sure about the keepers either because nowadays in MLS, keepers don't even get first team minutes at that age. Some of the field players are also still college players, and I doubt many people watch college soccer, and can judge the quality of those players.

 

I suggest to stop watching US Men's Soccer. The program is beyond saving.

I have no doubt it would save the mental health of many people on this forum.

 

Sacramento republic getting announced was literally the one saving grace that will keep me interested in soccer. Getting bulldozed in the U17, the embarrassing loss to canada, and just all around failure from top to bottom of the national team will keep me uninterested for quite awhile. Was hoping to see there were a few standouts, but sounds like we had nothing but a bunch of David Arvizus this cycle

 

Since this thread is talking an awful lot about the "system" I will say that as depressing as the u17 results were/are, that is the level (and below) to be changing and emphasizing that change. How many times have we heard or made the criticism that youth club soccer focuses too much on results. If by the time the players get to the u20 level and they can't play out of the back or imitate Spain then scrap it and play for the win but u17, in theory, should be about developing for the senior team and results should be secondary. How many wouldn't mind missing out on u17 wc, losing to mexico etc if it somehow meant that in the long run we would be better prepared for the wc and make a deep run in 2026 or 2030?

All that being said, I still don't really believe that the ynt program is all that important for development and playing out of the back with the USYNT will not make much difference in teaching a player to be effective in that role if his club is not playing that way.

I think the larger problem is that the u17 team seem to be without real fight. (Edu commented on it at the end). Perhaps I am mistaken but that was also my impression. I know that one of the things that really stood out to me many years ago (before we had any real success and were still a minor team within CONCACAF) was a quote by an opposing nt player who was commenting on how the US never gave up. It could be 4-0 in the 90th min and we still played to get back into the game. To often that hasn't been the case and now it has been the case across several teams, several coaches, and now several levels.

 

Pulisic: both parents played the game at a decent level, grandfather is an immigrant from a country with a strong soccer culture, Dad works professionally in the sport, EU passport, DA team, early youth nat involvement, Bradenton, U17 squad standout, BVB, disappointing U17 WC, breaks into the first team, no looking back.

Gio Reyna: both parents played the game at a high level, grandfather is an immigrant from a country with a strong soccer culture, Dad works professionally in the sport, EU passport, MLS DA team, early youth nat involvement, U17 squad standout, BVB, disappointing U17 WC...

Both of these guys are gifted athletes who came from abnormally strong soccer environments who could go to an elite youth to pro system prior to turning 18. Not all of the exact details need to be present but the basic package needs to be replicated hundreds of thousands of times over to end up with a depth of quality. We don’t have the culture, the generational experience, or the density of talent to do that.