The Coach's Son/Daughter

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Sobek, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Sobek

    Sobek Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #1 Sobek, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
    I am one of what I suspect to be the majority of coaches Worldwide - the parent roped into coaching the side their child plays for.

    I have been lucky in that my son has been generally acknowledged by the other players and parents to be one of the quickest and best defenders and most reliable full back in the team (my heart still bursts when he puts in a crunching tackle or makes a dart up the wing to be met with a celebratory chorus of "Yes JC!" from his team mates).

    However, I regularly hear that so and so only plays because his father is the coach when my players are talking about other teams.

    Worse still, my assistant works with the coach of another local team. He told me today that this coach's son wants to leave the team and join us. Why? He has overheard/is aware of many conversations between parents of other players that he only gets to play because he is the coach's son!

    Putting aside what I think of people who would talk about a child playing sport outside of the professional academies* like this, I thought I would put across some reasons why the coach's son/daughter deserves to be played no matter what you think ... :whistling:

    *I mean actual Premiership, Championship etc clubs not the often con merchants who set up paid for academies claiming to be able to improve/prepare/get them scouted by the Pros (another topic for another time)

    1. They have put in more time than anyone else. Unless actually on his death bed, my son has had to come to every training session, rain or shine, snow or hail. No excuse has been good enough. His mum can't fake an illness for him if he's tired or wants to hang out at the Mall. Even the matches he has been rotated see him arriving early with me and leaving last after every bit of equipment has been put away. Not only that, he has to work hard in training and every match just to avoid the merest possibility that you or your son would say he's only playing because he's the coach's son.


    2. They lost game time/their favourite position to accommodate your child. If a substitution needs to be made or roles swapped round guess who the easy option for the coach is. Their child. In an effort to keep you happy about the time your child gets and the position they play I have sometimes sacrificed my son when he has been in the middle of the performance of his life. Give him a break when he is having an off day!

    3. They have no rights. Don't like the session? Tough! Don't like the role you've been given? Suck it up! Your child has you to complain to about the coach. My son has the coach to complain to about the coach. Even if he runs to Mummy he may well be met by parental solidarity. Misbehave at training? Your son may be told off but mine could well end up being grounded or losing his Xbox for a week.

    4. They don't get away from it. If I'm unhappy with a result or performance my son has the pleasure of hearing about it for the rest of the day - even when it's nothing to do with him. When your child wants to know whether they've been selected for a tournament or match, my son gets texts and instant messages asking for the inside track. What do you mean you don't know? He must have told you! Why is X playing - Y should be.

    5. Not only do they get criticised, so does their parent. When the coach does something wrong everyone feels free to say so. The coach's child has to listen to criticism of their parent no matter how unjustified. I can deal with it, I'm a grown up but he is a kid who still looks up to his father and it hurts him when people are unkind about someone he loves. Let's do a deal, you make sure your son doesn't tell mine how such and such a tactic was stupid and how bad his dad is and I'll make sure my son doesn't tell yours how much an arse his father is for always being late and screaming at the ref like an idiot - if he bothers to show up that is.

    6. If they're good enough your child will be spotted. Think nature blessed you and gave you a future pro? Great. I disagree but would really love to nudge someone in a sports bar one day and say "I coached him you know". For now, he has not been spotted.I'll welcome any scout who wants to come and see him and do my best to improve what I can; but guess what. If he's that good he's surely good enough to make up for the negative effect my son has on the team's performance. The pros are so far ahead of the rest they will make that much difference. Oh, you mean you just want your son to enjoy his football! Guess what. So do I. Glad we agree this about the kids having fun not copy in the local paper

    7. I'll play my kid whenever and wherever I want to. I put in hours of my free time every week. I deal with 18 - 20 hormonal 15 year olds every week. I deal with the problems they have with each other and make sure they shake hands and make friends again. I treat them fairly.

    I plan the sessions, pick the teams, make the arrangements and message you all to make sure you know what is going on. I fundraise, I organise sponsors and new kits. I bring spare boots and shin pads just in case your child forgets theirs. I give up my spare time to go on coaching courses and my own money to renew my first aid qualifications and Criminal Background Checks. I spend my own money and time on materials to give me ideas of how to make your child better while ensuring they enjoy the learning experience as much as possible.

    I wait with your son in the car park when you're late picking them up from training. I give them a lift to matches when you can't. I don't penalise them because your marriage has fallen apart and your custody arrangements mean he can only come alternate weeks.

    I do this all for free. I don't get paid. I don't even get expenses. I don't do it for personal glory.

    I started doing it to spend more time with my son. I am proud of your son and his achievements and the way he is maturing as a man; but most of all, I am here for my son. It is because of him your son gets a game - we have both put in enough time and effort for my son to play.

    Anyone got any more or points for the opposite argument? Go ...
     
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  2. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I have mixed feeling on this…I’ve seen it go both way…good, hardworking coach’s kids who deserve everything they get, and merely average, ok kids who are clearly being treated differently due to the fact they are the coach’s son…

    Personally, I/my son has dealt with a coach’s son for the last two years…and it hasn’t been the most positive experience. At first, there were high expectations that my son and the coach’s kid would form a fanatic duo at center back…and for a while, it seemed to work out…but as the months and seasons dragged on, it became very clear my son would have to work very hard/fight to hold and maintain his position and status (as he should), while the coach’s son, not so much. Over those years, my son would get benched, pulled and/or lose his starting position at varies times; the coach’s son never once…even though he was making the same, if not worse mistakes, then my son…I want my son challenged, both internally and externally…but I want that competition to be fair…and it really wasn’t in this case…I saw it, other parents saw it, my son saw it, other team mates saw it…that sense of entitlement was picked up by most everyone, including imo, the coach’s kid himself…let’s just say, he wasn’t the most liked or well-respected kid on the team…

    You can justify this situation with all the self-serving excuses you like, but in the end special treatment is special treatment; and special treatment has no place in a competitive environment…it breeds resentment and bad feelings, and doesn’t really do the “special one” any real favors…

    With the whole age change, the coach "retired" and the team has broken up…after playing his whole life for his dad, this kid will finally have to play for someone else and truly have to make it on his own…it’s probably the best thing that could happen to him…
     
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  3. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    My personal experience has been closer to Sobek's. The time, effort, organization and communication required is extraordinary for most youth coaches as compared to being "just a parent" which involves drop-offs, pick-ups, attending games and the occasional equipment purchase. And, I'm sorry to say, that when it comes down to it, my kids were always simply better. One thing I did learn, however, is that you can be as nice a guy as possible or an a-hole; the questions and complaints will always be there. It's just easier to be an a-hole sometimes.

    One quick story regarding one of my daughter's teams. I had gotten a steady stream of playing time complaints from one parent over a few weeks, both directly and indirectly. Finally I had enough of it, but instead of firing back, I invited the mother to one of our next practices, which she was able to attend. I went trough our normal progression of practice drills and then reserved the last 15 minutes for 1v1 drills. I specifically paired my daughter with hers and watched the ensuing fireworks. Every single time my daughter made a move, her daughter ended up grasping at air or picking herself up from the ground and every single time her daughter had the ball, she lost it within seconds. I admit that it was a cruel move, but the girl never thought that she should have been playing more, it was the mother. Any question about my kid getting special treatment simply because she was the coach's daughter was answered. She would have been better off pointing out other kids that were closer to her daughter's skill level, but it always seems easiest to attack the coach's kid.
     
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  4. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What level are you guys coaching at? Rec, community travel, club?
     
  5. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    For me, it was a number of levels over a number of years, but primarily community travel and the last 2 years at middle school. And I know, middle school soccer is a joke (I've heard it lots), but in my city, we used middle school as a transition from lighter competition rec/travel to the more competitive high school where not everyone makes the team, let alone plays.
     
  6. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    When my son was playing rec and then community travel it probably was more true the coach’s kid did tend to be the best, if not one of the better players on the team and/or I was just more understanding of this particular benefit of being the coach…

    But at the club level (my example above), I think things change a bit and parents are slightly less understand regarding such benefits (rightfully so imo)…

    First, the talent gap in Rec and community travel does tend to be wider…and it’s not surprising, for many reasons, that the coach’s kid does tend to be one of the better players…However, once you hit the club level, things I believe tend to even out a bit in that regard…everyone is pretty damn good and committed; no one is really head and shoulder better than anyone else…sure, kids have their strengths and weakens, have their peaks and valleys, but that’s due more the developmental cycle then anyone being demonstrably better or inherently more skilled than anyone else relatively speaking on the team…nobody is simply or exponentially better than anybody else…the odds that the coach’s kid is going to be unquestionably the best player on the team is greatly diminished…

    Second, at that level, parents are typically paying through the nose for their kid to play and coaches are for the most part paid in some way or another…and whereas that fact does NOT entitle those parents to much, it does at minimum create an expectation that there will be a level playing field; that kids will get what they earn and not simply be given positions, playtime, special treatment, or leadership roles based on their last name…

    I am not dogging on you guys…coaching is a thankless job…and I have been thankful for every coach my son has had along the way…even with my example above, my son’s experience with that coach was decidedly a net positive one; the issue with his son relatively a minor one, but an issue none the less…and one that probably would have come to head had it continued for another year….
     
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  7. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    I like this post. I have great respect for my sons rec coaches. These were guys who had to leave work early, face Boston traffic and, find the energy to be Dads and get the kids energized and on fire about soccer... This is the entry point for so many kids and in my experience they all had a ton of fun. The biggest challenge for these guys was getting everyone time period, the programs were so popular they had way too many kids to deal with. This along with other challenges makes it only a stepping stone in my area, there really is little else going on technically etc. In my experience anyone really challenging a rec\travel coach would be extreme and unwarranted.

    I see not coaching my son as luxury. I can defer to "coaches decision" (hey man, you will not agree with or like every coach you have), we do have our kids playing to learn lessons that will help socialize them. I also have observed more than once kids of coaches can use the sport to further family or daddy drama which I would rather avoid. Again I have my guy playing sports to have a coach criticizing late arrival,shirt tucked in, effort etc.

    I have heard so many similar stories from other sports\parent coaches about easier to be abrupt etc. I would also add there is seldom an easy way, and even parents who claim to understand often eventually disparage. Lets face it some parents can assess the talent level of their children, others
    the expectation and wants stand completely separate from the desire\ability of their player.

    Anyway, good luck with your teams.
     
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  8. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    What age group and level are we talking about?
     
  9. nysoccerdad

    nysoccerdad Member

    Apr 18, 2016
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I am with you sir but you put yourself in a difficult position by posting on behalf of all parent coaches. I am a parent coach myself and I can testify there are some bad apples out there. I have seen some and it is ridiculous.
     
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  10. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I did not get into coaching because my son plays. I was a player before my first son was born. In fact I never coach a team that my son played on.

    I did play street soccer with my son for years. He did play for a club I played for but I never coached him. The club had a rule about that.

    I only saw him play in college a couple of times. I was too busy with my own teams.

    I did play with him on the same adult team one season. That was a dream of mine I had since he was born.

    I saw an old dvd today of him playing for the his Catholic grammar school championship in Baseket ball game when he was 10 yrs old. That happen 35 yrs ago. How long does a dvd last you can still see it.
     
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  11. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    I found this to be some of the highest self serving crap I have ever had the pleasure to read.

    "I started doing it to spend more time with my son. I am proud of your son and his achievements and the way he is maturing as a man; but most of all, I am here for my son. It is because of him your son gets a game - we have both put in enough time and effort for my son to play."

    This sums up the problem in a nutshell but at least you admit it when most parent coaches will go on about how they just want to teach the game. Clearly, you are in it just for your kid and it likely shows.

    I am proud that you can spend more time with your son, and play him wherever he wants. I am proud of your son and that you can play him as much as he wants. I only hope that at some point you will run into a coach like yourself.
     
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  12. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
     
  13. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    to the OP.

    Yes. I may agree with you on the logic of several points.

    Cest la vie, you seem smart enough to have realized the more than obvious pitfalls of this endeavor. I would advise that both you and any parent always have choices. I more than despise the traffic I drive into every morning....yet I still drive into it willngly.

    You really grind on these obvious things to the point where I say, perhaps you do not have the right mentality to be coaching 15 year olds. You seem to want a trophy or high praise for something that you willingly ventured into ?

    This is supposed to be a positive experience for you and everyone else. Yeah it must be challenging but if its not MORE rewarding then get out of it, for your sake and your guy.

    How about the positives? These guys will remember you for the rest of their lives.. You will have a place in their lives that most will not, your son and the players. There are coaches I had as a kid that cannot begin to know the small things they did that had a tremendous positives.

    And yeah so it seems noone is in an academy, so perhaps we can benefit from a less intense approach to all of this.

    Pro clubs have comings and goings all the time, it can be fun but there is a dollars and cents to the existence. You should be empowered by the fact that your crew is outside of this, see it as a positive.

    Read your post. You separate yourself and son from the team completely ? You coach don't you ? I really did not get that you care an ounce about the "team", and maybe you do not realize that or it was intended.
     
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  14. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The Parent Coach has an inherent conflict of interest.

    As Coach, you have an ethical responsibility to be fair, impartial and treat all your players roughly the same; in other words, you don’t play favorites nor discriminate. That doesn’t necessarily mean everyone gets equal playtime or the positon they want, but it does mean those decisions are made equitably and fairly….

    As Parent, your kid will have no greater fan nor supporter. You will do almost anything to help him or her find success or happiness…That doesn’t necessarily mean you will actively sabotage or harm (very loosely defined in this case) another kid, but it very hard not to favor your own kid over others…

    Many Parent Coaches are coaching, in some part, because they know it will give their kid an advantage…there is nothing wrong with that per say and in many, many cases, that advantage is as simple as having a team to play on or having the best coach available (assuming you actually know anything about soccer)…but if it’s all about all about your kid, and if that’s the attitude you have, you are probably abusing or taking too much advantage of your position…

    We need Parent Coaches…youth soccer in this country can’t survive or flourish without them…but all Parent Coaches need to be mindful of the line they walk…and unfortunately, it does sound like the OP has crossed or is dangerously close to crossing that line…
     
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  15. Benny Dargle

    Benny Dargle Member+

    Jul 23, 2008
    LA
    Some people in this thread seem to only see and acknowledge the favoritism side. I've been a parent coach and Division commissioner for years on the rec side and a team administrator on the club side. From my experience, once you start keeping score there are two types of parent coaches and they are fairly evenly divided: (1) Those that favor their own kid, (2) Those that are harder on their kid than other kids (either openly criticizing or being more stingy with praise, both of which continue long after the other players have gone home). There are a few in the middle who bend over backward not to favor their kid. They aren't exactly harder on their kid in the sense of criticizing them etc, but they don't give them equal time on the field or in the favored positions because they are trying to give those spots to the louder parents. It's the very rare coach who treats their kids the same as they would another kid (most who think they do and are very sensitive to it don't appear to actually reach that goal when a mentor coach is brought in to observe them). The only way to mitigate these things is to have a good assistant coach who can help check your natural instincts. Parents spot and complain about the favoritism coach far more than the too hard coach (except when the parent coach tends to yell loudly and criticize their own kid during games, which makes it obvious), but neutral observers can see it right away.

    I've seen parent coaches who need to step aside because their kids no longer respond effectively to their coaching simply because they are their parents (usually happens in the pre-teen or teen years) and I've seen parent coaches who need to step aside because their kids feel too much stress with a parent as their coach since they feel like they have let down their Dad, not just a coach, when they make a mistake or the team loses. Even when a coach is pretty fair, their kids suffer because their peers complain to them that they only got where they are because their Dad is the coach. It's really difficult to continue to use parent coaches once the kids hit middle school or above, although it's obviously necessary when the alternative is to not have a team at all. It's just important that the other parents recognize that it just as easily could be bad for that coach's kid as it is favorable for them.
     
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  16. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Well so far I'm in this camp.

    And since my age question has not been answered I will only offer that u4-u11 should essentially be equal time. Now there are occasions where you may play a more stable player in a center position to help distribute to the outside... But short of that - equal time.

    If you feel your player should have more time on the field simply because they are kid, then you probably should not be coaching at all.
     
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  17. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I don’t think that’s true at all…well, Stig’s been a little more harsh then maybe necessary…but most of us are just countering what appears to be a laundry list of excuses for those Parent Coaches who do play favorites by the OP; for those who feel no shame in taking full advantage of their position to favor their own kid…yes, there are good Parent Coaches and bad Parent Coaches; and as you say, the experience of being the Coach’s kid can be both positive or negative depending on a number of factors….

    Your two types of Parent Coaches create two very different situations….

    Favoring your own kid negatively impacts other kids, especially if it involves playtime…and is something parents have a right to complain about…

    Being harder on your own kid only really effects that kid, and may be a positive or negative thing, or a mix of the two…but in any case, its really just between you and your kid…
     
  18. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    It is in his original post....

     
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  19. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    This is what I was trying to say earlier. This is what I have encountered more often than not. Very good intentions gone way astray.

    In my experience the playing time thing is impossible to pick through, this can be ridiculously subjective and nuanced, and my head spins at how unfair parents can be, I've "discussed" this with my wife.... "You did not think our guy got playing time????!!!! (You know halftime is where everyone breaks right????).
     
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  20. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I'll piggyback this and say that it can also have a negative impact on the coach's son or daughter as well, though probably longer in being seen. I have seen other coach's kids that develop a sense of entitlement which doesn't go over well when they have to deal with a new coach.

    I was always hardest on my own kids and had to apologize more than once for using them as a target for when my teams were working hard. It was always easier to be critical of them without fear of parental repercussions and hopefully my message reached more than just one player.
     
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  21. Benny Dargle

    Benny Dargle Member+

    Jul 23, 2008
    LA
    Actually, both types of attributes hurt everybody on the team -- some directly and others indirectly because the coaches' attention is focused too narrowly -- and must be managed if you have a parent coached team.
     
  22. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    Yeah, I was harsh but I have lurked at this site for a couple of years now and the OP just compelled me to create an account. :)

    But here is the thing. Parent coaches are needed but in a travel environment parents expect professionalism and for the amount that parents often pay for travel soccer the notion of the volunteer coach no longer carries any weight.

    If you are coaching the expectation is that you will be professional. Favoritism of any kind is simply not being professional. I think the OP forgets that kids sacrifice as well as the parents.

    I thank you for your more measured replies.
     
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  23. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I can agree with The Stig to a certain extent, but it's all relative based on your locality and your perspective on expectations can change. I think we all have varying experiences of the different levels of soccer. Rec seems to be universal, but where I live, the total player pool drops dramatically at U10-U12, with maybe one gender team at each age level. The travel "club" charges about $100 a session, five sessions a year, and coaches are still volunteer. Without them, there'd be no legitimate guidance or training. Expecting "professionalism" at this level is foolhardy.

    Our next step up is called premier locally and fees are at least 5 times higher and the expectations rise with the money. Paid coaches that aren't parents are the norm and most of the idea of a coach's favoritism (not all, mind you) goes away.

    Everyone is dealing with a different idea of what is "travel" and it's important to keep that perspective, I think. While I don't agree with all of the OP points, I do side with the overall premise that the parent coach deals with far more criticism and questioning than they should.
     
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  24. Sobek

    Sobek Member

    Jun 9, 2016
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I am not surprised by the range of reaction to this issue ... part of the reason I thought it would be an interesting one to create a thread for.

    In answer to the direct questions

    I coach u15 in the season just finished here (u16 from September)

    Level - not sure how it would directly translate but definitely not Rec. We play in a competitive league structure with 22 league matches a year plus however many cup games and however many tournaments we enter. The league has promotion and relegation, suspensions and bans for Red/Yellow cards and fines for players who are given a card.

    We are Div 3 of 4 and were unlucky not to get the second promotion spot this year. Above Div 1 of our league is the professional academies of FA/Football League clubs. The gap between those in the bottom half of Div 2 and the top of Div 4 is surprisingly small at times.

    In my team from last year are three players who have been at Elite Academies at a younger age - 1 at Leeds United, 2 at Hull City. Two of these plus one other have attracted the attention of a scout from a Championship Club in the last 12 months - how far that goes remains to be seen.

    Joining this year is a player who is a Galatasaray Alum and another who was given a 6 week trial with Leeds United (the next stage in the scouting process)

    This summer we won a tournament we finished runners up in last year and hope to put in a good performance in a tournament in July where the majority of teams will be from the leagues above.

    My assistant played Semi Pro.

    We have competitive selection for League and Cup matches with not all of the squad being registered for the League.

    We operate a fair time playing policy which is different to equal i.e. we don't select someone and then give them 5 -10 minutes as we believe match experience is one of the most fruitful ways a player can improve.

    We used to have equal playing time at younger ages and, as we were looking to the long term, it served us very well as we now have a rounded squad with a number of different options rather than an over reliance on a core.

    My son? My assistant has often had to talk me round to starting him rather than rotating him as "the team relies on him" - hence the reason I acknowledge being lucky in paragraph two of the OP.

    My coaching style and beliefs? Ah well - that's probably for another time
     
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  25. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    My bad... In this case I think it's not a problem to play your better players - or those who put in the time more than those who are not/don't.

    But not for the only reason being the coaches son or daughter.
     
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