The Cart Comes First: The 2017 U-20 Qualifying Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Balerion, May 22, 2015.

  1. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Here are the stats for the 20 kids on the qualifying roster. It gives you a pretty good clue about the players most likely to be replaces, assuming the US finishes the job against El Salvador.

    Justen Glad --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 360 MIN
    Danny Acosta --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 360 MIN
    Tommy Redding --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 339 MIN
    Erik Palmer-Brown --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 338 MIN, 1 G
    Marlon Fossey --- 4 GM, 3 ST, 331 MIN
    Jeremy Ebobisse --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 327 MIN, 2 A
    Brooks Lennon --- 4 GM, 4 ST, 314 MIN, 4 G
    Eryk Williamson --- 4 GM, 3 ST, 281 MIN
    Jonathan Klinsmann --- 3 GM, 3 ST, 270 MIN, 3 saves, .600 save pct., 0.66 GAA
    Luca De La Torre --- 3 GM, 3 ST, 248 MIN, 1 G
    Sebastian Saucedo --- 3 GM, 2 ST, 209 MIN, 2 G
    Jonathan Lewis --- 3 GM, 2 ST, 149 MIN, 1 G, 1 A
    Tyler Adams --- 2 GM, 2 ST, 121 MIN
    Coy Craft --- 4 GM, 0 ST, 108 MIN
    JT Marcinkowski --- 1 GM, 1 ST, 90 MIN, 0 saves, .000 save pct., 1.00 GAA
    Emmanuel Sabbi --- 1 GM, 0 ST, 59 MIN
    Aaron Herrera --- 1 GM, 1 ST, 29 MIN
    Jeremiah Gutjahr --- 2 GM, 0 ST, 23 MIN
    Jonathan Gonzalez --- 1 GM, 0 ST, 22 MIN
    Auston Trusty --- 0 GM, 0 ST, 0 MIN
     
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  2. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    That's a lot of typing to analyze a 20-man roster with five guys on it who played 1 game or less. ;)
     
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  3. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I am waiting for a dental appointment. Takes my mind off the impending pain.
     
  4. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I thought about Akale on the way to an appointment this morning and came to the same conclusion you did: move Pulisic centrally and play Akale on the left. Zelalem is a little harder for me. I want him on the roster but I think his successful inclusion as a starter would require us to re-look our tactical scheme. If he continues to play at VVV, we would certainly want to look at him in the first XI.
    I am comfortable with Wright as a sole CF. I am happy to see more people are coming around to EPB as a CDM. Maybe I am not completely batsh!t after all.
     
  5. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Yep, Carleton would be ineligible for the U17 WC later this year if he plays in the U20 WC.
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #1281 ussoccer97531, Feb 28, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    U-17 WC lol

    Come on, waste of his time. And I would prefer he plays in no international tournaments as I want him to stay with Atlanta all season, but if he's to play in one, he's too far beyond U-17 level. Does him no good anymore. Watch him play against U-17 kids, and you will understand. U-20 WC would be more of a challenge, and as I mentioned, I was only stating our BEST ELIGIBLE TEAM, not the team I think is realistic to pick and not the team I would pick. I also think the U-20 WC is better strategically placed. U-17 WCQ is terribly placed, at the beginning of the season where players are earning PT. U-17 WC is right before the playoffs, a crucial time of the season.
     
  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Thats not my lineup, its my best eligible team.

    My personal team would not include Pulisic (senior team and Dortmund), Carleton (stay with Atlanta) or Zelalem (not liking his recent form, want others to get a chance), but if we are trying to construct a team that can win the U-20 WC, I believe the best eligible team could. I'm not sure we can, otherwise.
     
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  8. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    He may be far beyond the level of most of his U17 teammates, but there will be a good number of players at the U17 WC who are as good as or better than Carleton. The level of competition that he'll face (assuming we qualify) justifies him playing with the U17s. Also, the experience of having to navigate through an int'l tournament provides an important developmental step for a player his age. As for him playing with the U20s, I just don't think he's so dominant that he would fit right in with the U20s. Finally, there's also the notion that strutting your stuff on a world stage does wonders for your confidence and long term perspective on where you are and where you're headed. He should play with the U17s.
     
  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    One thing that I think hasn't been talked about enough is that the current U-20 team will be playing catch-up big time when the MLS season starts. I know everyone enjoys these tournaments and all that, but I won't enjoy EPB, Redding, Lennon, Ebobisse, etc not making the 18 when they return the first number of weeks because they missed the whole preseason.

    I really think its imperative to look at for the well-being of a player's club situation more than the NT. After all, what matters is player development, not YNT results. If Carleton is good enough to play in MLS this season, he's not going to be given a 90 minute starter spot on lock. Its going to take time to earn a role, which is why U-17 WCQ is terribly placed. Make a month of progress, leave for a month, come back and others have ran away with the spot. Thats what happened with Palmer-Brown and the U-20 WC last cycle. Picked to play up a cycle, played one match as a back up CB, loses his place when he returns for the rest of the season. And while roles might be more established in October, I'm not sure thats the time of season that you want to take a player away from their club team. So while I don't disagree, and I'd rather Carleton play with the U-17's than nothing, I think priority #1 has to be playing with Atlanta, and that should come first this whole season. This isn't a new stance either for me, I said the same thing about Pulisic after he received his first call up. I didn't like the idea of the cross-atlantic travel during FIFA dates, it would hurt his PT with BVB. If a player has a defined role, no problem. If their role is up for grabs, leave them behind.
     
  10. bigt8917

    bigt8917 Member+

    May 10, 2015
    Should EPB become a full time DM? If so, i like our midfield depth at this point with him, McKennie, Adams, and Taitague at the U20 level. We have alot of quality CB's like CCV, Glad, and Redding. We've never had alot of MF depth like now.
     
  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    No, his upside (and current play) at CB is too good. It's nice that he has versatility to help the team out, but our NT will be sacrificing upside of a level we don't have at the CB position. Can't risk that. His ceiling at DM is lower because he doesn't have goals and assists in his game. Hard to fault him though. He's probably been a defensive player his whole life, he's probably even played very good games in midfield.
     
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  12. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I like players to play where their highest potential is and I think EPBs is at CB. It's like when some wanted yedlin at RW.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I think Zelalem is one of our best players and has more experience than just about anybody on the roster. That is enough for me to adjust our tactical scheme and not sure how much of an adjustment it really is. If you are talking formation, I'd be ok pushing Perez and Akale higher and Pulisic staying/starting a little deeper if it is just a hang up on formation, but think the 4231 way I set up fits best for the players we have. EPB does the defensive work and gets the ball to Zelalem who plays as a quarterback to the front 4. CP, JP, and MA can play all three positions so they can all be given freedom. I'd say GZ is a big step up from what we just saw out of DLT and those talking about form are just silly when they include someone like Taitague who has one game in the u19 Bundesliga.

    I'm all for CBs getting time as a #6. The skill sets are similar but challenges/responsibilities slightly different. Even if this doesn't work out for EPB, it will be a great experience for his passing, range, and reading of the game. Back to tactics... as I think I said earlier, we have quite few players with different skills to easily adjust as an opponent or game require.
     
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  14. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Apparently he is the best on the bench. That's where we should play him.
     
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  15. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    My counter points are:

    1. Sergio Busquets has 8 goals and 20 assists in 331 games. Mascherano has 2 goals and 12 assists in 455 games. Gattuso had 13 goals and 13 assists in 537 games. Roy Keane had 63 goals and 15 assists in 525 (what a dynamo). I don't see EPB scoring a lot from the run of play but he could easily be worth 4 goals a season on set pieces alone.

    2. As far as what national team depth looks like...

    At the 6: Bradley, Cameron, McCarty, Kitchen, Trapp, Acosta, Morales, Stanko, Canouse, Caldwell, Delgado, Polster, Ulloa, Alashe, Adams, and Durkin.

    At CB: Brooks, Cameron, Besler, Birnbaum, Gonzalez, Hedges, Zimmerman, Marshall, Miazga, CCV, Campbell, Parker, Glad, Opara, Redding, and O'Neill.

    I feel more confident saying there will be 4 good CB options in 2022 than 2 good 6's. I don't think that we should start our most talented XI blindly but there could be a scenario where starting our 3 best CB's, one in DM, is better for the team than the other options. It could also allow for more roster flexibility as the 4th CB spot often goes to a guy who does not play.
     
  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Eh, maybe not so much goals. I was having trouble phrasing that one. I think you caught me stumbling upon my point. Maybe the phrase is offensive instincts, but I didn't want to originally use that because I didn't want to make it seem like he is some big strong guy who's fast and can tackle people, but has no soccer skill. He has very good feet, good vision, good ability to dribble (if he'd ever use it) and good passing. He always seems hesitant though with time and space as a #6, whether thats near goal or near the halfway line. It might just be unfamiliarity with the position. I was thinking watching the game that he refused to shoot, but I realized that he's probably not worked on 20-30 yard shots much in his career. Why would he need to as a CB? He's probably afraid of putting it into row 20. I think he's best in a 50/50 game where he doesn't have all day to think playing that #6, and can just break up plays, and quickly distribute using short passes, occasionally playing a good long ball or two that he's capable of.

    I'd really like to see what he could do at CB though. Maybe thats just being selfish, but I seriously believe he has a rare skill-set for the position. He's a ridiculous athlete, the type of athlete where he might check out well as a corner-back at the NFL combine in a few weeks, along with very good passing skills and comfort on the ball at the CB position, and what he's started to show the last year with Porto is very consistent defending. I always thought that once he figured out how to defend consistently, he was going to absolutely break out, and while I do think he could be a good DM, I think he's one of the few young Americans where you can say that he has the type of skill-set where if he keeps progressing, he has potential world class ability at his best position, which I think is CB. I'm not opposed to using him as a #6 at times, but I don't think he should stop playing CB just because he's done well as a #6. He would probably be playing even better, if he was playing as a CB. He was asked in a Facebook Q&A before the tournament what his favorite position was, and he said CB. I'd prefer him to stay at CB, with versatility to play the #6.
     
  17. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    So after years of arguing for EPB as a Dm, once the majority come around to the idea, you don't like it?
     
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  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I don't like limiting young players and would prefer to encourage them to be more versatile. I think most national team level players should be able to play at least two positions. Most of our top players have played multiple positions over their careers... Donovan, Dempsey, Reyna, Beasley, O'Brien, etc. Not only does this mean they are more complete players, but makes putting rosters together and making tactical changes much easier. It also means that player is likely to get buried on the bench as they will force themselves onto the field somewhere.

    As for EPB, I have no idea whether his highest potential is a CB or dmid and even if it is CB, spending time at dmid might help him more to reach his potential as a CB. I'd like to see him play both positions for next couple of years and then figured out what is best for his career. Maybe if Miazga had spent some time there he'd be better and more comfortable on the ball and would be getting more minutes at Vitesse. What was wrong with Yedlin in the midfield? Didn't that time help improve going forward and service into the box due to less defensive responsibility and doesn't that make him a better RB now?
     
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  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Makele...

    Nantes/Marselle/Celta Vigo: 21G, 327 games
    Real Madrid/Chelsea/PSG: 4G, 475 games
    France: 0G, 71 games
     
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  20. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That's not my opinion. I'd like him to have the versatility for both positions, but to play at CB. Thats all.
     
  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Yeah, he's not going to be pulling strings like Xabi but we'll see what the team needs.
     
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  22. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    Yeah, my first impulse was to say that he's just not a good enough passer to be a DM at the senior level, but I guess that does depend on what's needed. From what I've seen, he's an absolute rock in the center of the field, and teams just can't attack through the center of midfield when he's out there. If he's able to provide that, maybe we can be OK playing someone more creative, but with defensive deficiencies (e.g., Zelalem), in front of EPB at CM.
     
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  23. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Well Done, Boys!
     
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Should we create a new thread? Or continue in this one?
     
  25. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When in doubt, it's always smart to flush the toilet
     

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