The Big "Paucity of English Youth Talent" Debate!

if Terry was produced now he wouldn't make it at Chelsea. RLC looked a lot better than Alli when they played together for England, one had opportunities not the other

 

If he was that highly thought of at United he wouldn't have been playing more U18 football than he was U21/23 football at the time of his impact.

I wasn't trying to compare Rashford and Mbappe, more making a point that a player who wasn't being fast tracked through the system at an academy weaker than Chelsea has managed to have a great impact at the first team scene in probably the toughest league in Europe. And continue to look good broadly on the international stage - and looked ridiculous when playing for England U21s.

That first team opportunity turned a good prospect into a very good first teamer - what's to say that if a great prospect at Chelsea had been given those opportunities that they wouldn't have excelled even more.

We'll obviously never know

 

He was very highly thought of. The reason why he didn't play more U23s football is United tends to be more reluctant than other clubs when it comes to early promotion and there's actually a host of older players in first team fringe in front of him at that times. Still he was occasionally on the U23s bench and trained with the first team on October and made the first team bench as a backup for Lingard when the first injury crisis happened.

About the Chelsea prospects, apart from the foreign imports (Christensen, Ake etc) the rest have yet to show anything much at PL level or equivalent so allow me to have some doubts about them.

 

I am not so sure, because Terry's mindset is so strong, I think along with his ability, he would have forced Chelsea into giving him a run in the first team, maybe not at the age of 17/18 but definitely by the age of 20. As for RLC, I agree he did look a lot better than Alli did at the same age, but to be fair to the latter, he had not found his true position on the pitch like he has now, where as RLC has, It's just that he can't seem to force his way into the first team, P.S. maybe if he had a Terry or Gerrard like mindset, then he would be a regular player in the first XI by now, but I don't think he has that in him and will probably end up being sold to a mid table PL team sooner or later.

 

That article says taht they're in for Ricardo Pereira as a Walker replacement and that Everton expect them to go back in for Barkley in August. Those moves wouldn't be great news for KWP or Onomah respectively.

 

KWP is so much more gifted than Trippier

 

A bit late and halfway through the half but a few young English potentials on show like Nelson, Willock and Bramhall

 

Every time Onomah has played for the Tottenham first team he's been played out wide or as an AM despite the fact people on here would prefer him to play deeper. Unless Onomah gets promoted to a deeper position they would be in competition.

There isn't any baulking in the Pereira section. They're saying that a move for a new RB will wait until after Walker has been sold.

The article also says that Levy is holding off on transfers because he thinks the best value in the market is at the end of the window, it's premature to praise them for creating opportunities for young players at this point. Two or three signings would change the picture a lot.

 

Apparently it's confirmed, Chalobah has signed for Watford on a 5 year deal.

Watford have signed midfielder Nathaniel Chalobah from Chelsea https://t.co/iiI3F611cp #watfrodfc #CFC pic.twitter.com/9sR3gzJFFx

— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) July 13, 2017

 

Moses, Cahill and Fabregas the only HG players they have left. I bet the Chalobah deal just feels like the straw that broke the camels back. Barely any of the CL winners left and most gone in the last couple of years, then pretty much all of their kids have been loaned out at once. I've experienced this in my fandom before, where the club you support just has a lack of players you've developed any affinity for.

 

How many HG players do they need? Surely 3 is not enough?

 

Musonda and Kenedy both have shirt numbers for next season and count as U21s. Andreas Christensen will surely get given a shirt number too. They have 17 non home grown slots to work with.

3 + 3 + 17 = 23, which is just about enough. They could always retain someone like Baker as squad depth on top of that if need be (but that isn't likely to be in his personal interest...). Gary Cahill looks likely to be the only English player in their senior squad next season.

 

Agreed. For comparison, they used 24 players last season, but that includes the likes of Kenedy making one start and one sub appearance.

 

I'm not sure which HG player they'd be likely to sign anyway. Gibson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Barkley, Bertrand...?

 

I wonder if this might have a knock on effect in the Chalobah household? I mean, I'm sure Nat will want the best for his Kid brother and share his experiences and insight on where he might have done things different. I'm not sure what the situation is in regard to how long Trevor has left on his current contract but could be interesting to see if he signs a new long contract or does a Solanke? Just food for thought as I feel things are changing.

 

You can be sure it'll have some impact.

 

I'm still hoping that it'll inject a bit of urgency into Chelsea themselves. It's not just Chalobah but, as you say, Solanke, and then the likes of Quina further down. Hopefully they're at least starting to feel a bit unsettled about losing major prospects and might actually be feeling a bit more pressure to involve their remaining talents.

To be fair to the fanbase, there has always been a sizable section of it that was frustrated and even embarrassed by Chelsea's wasteful neglect of the incredible academy it's built up and the empty words around it. It's difficult to criticise Conte when he's had such immediate success with the first team, but I do find myself looking at Pochettino or Klopp, or reading Frank De Boer's comments from yesterday, and just thinking: why can't one of you ********ers be at Chelsea? Why does Chelsea never seek out a manager with a track-record of promoting youth if it's supposedly so important to Abramovich and the hierarchy? Then again, perhaps those managers would struggle to do it with the pressure of knowing that a single season of finishing second or third can get you the sack.

 

Yeah, seen it a lot on twitter with the frustrations of their fans and especially on Juni's account where many seem less impressed by the day. It's not just at Chelsea, even on City's forum there's many disgruntled fans already about the lack of chances given to youngsters and on the Sancho thread there's already quite a few saying he should leave now to save his career. It will be a disaster if by the time Sancho, Foden & Diaz reach Chalobah's age and are not playing regular first team football and City fans will also reach boiling point.

I think the success of our Youth teams this Summer has even turned the doubters who usually say ' there is no good English talents ' into actually believing we do have the talent coming through, like Chalobah for instance, so time should be given to them and the clamor is even greater.

Just on the Chelsea fans, found this in the Mail online

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...al-straw-Chelsea-academy.html#article-4696518

 

When you look at the Instagram players of all the young English players, it's incredible how close many of them are (not even just young English players either, they develop friendships with international players too that they play against from the early teens). You can't ignore the impact it'll have on the younger players if they see this current generation all spreading out in search of first team football. Also, loads of them share agents so the agents will be seeing better oaths for their future players too.

I do think many of the kids now will be signing that first pro contract for a couple of years, but they're also super aware that when they're around 19 they'll be looking to move. It's impossible for them not to be influenced by the age groups above them. Especially the future Chelsea lads if RLC, Solanke, Chalobah, Palmer + Brown pave the way.

 

I see Everton are set to sign Lewis Gibson. They've signed Josh Bowler recently. Linked with David Brooks & BrennanJohnson.

Last season they signed Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Sambou ? And track record with Stones, Holgate, Garbutt.

Seems a similar recruitment drive from Walsh to Spurs a few seasons back with Walker, Naughton, Rose, Routledge, Lennon, Dawson, Reid as examples back then.