The Big "Paucity of English Youth Talent" Debate!

And touch. And dribbling. He has struggled a bit lately with form and fitness, but he's been showing it for four years now, so I'm not sure that a few poor games this year will affect my opinion of him too much.

 

WELL I think u guys are overrating him

Hes a good talent but jwp is infinitely better imo

 

"I saw in their last games, England Under-19s won 3-0 against Spain. They are good, good players. When you see [Kyle] Walker, Danny Rose, Eric Dier, Alli, John Stones and Rash [Sterling] – they are top. From my point of view the quality is there. I think in Under-21s and Under-19s the quality is there too." - Pep Guardiola

http://www.goal.com/en/news/8/main/...glands-golden-generation-baffle-man-city-boss

 

Surely 'Rash' is Marcus Rashford and not Raheem Sterling?

 

I thought that as well, but why would Guardiola big up a Man United player who has spent most of the season bench warming and ignore a young English player who starts for him week in week out?

 

Nah he is referring to Sterling, Raheem's nickname is 'Raz' which Pep likes to use often even if he does pronounce it as 'Rash', more drawn out 'a' though compared to Rashford.

 

The Dutch leading football magazine Voetbal International has this week an article:
http://www.vi.nl/nieuws/bend-it-like-baker-het-verhaal-van-de-stilist-van-vitesse.htm
It rather reads like a fan piece, but whatever. It says that they expect LB to move on next season, as he progressed so much this year.
LB mentioned in the article he was very happy to have been able to have a second year with Vitesse, as it has been good for his development.

 

Not a good weekend for the Vitesse clan. AD Sportwereld ratings:
Excelsior – Vitesse 1-0
Excelsior: Hahn 6,5; Karami 6, Mattheij 6,5, De Wijs 7, Massop 6,5; Koolwijk 6, Fredy 6,5, Fortes 6,5; Elbers 7 (72. Ondaan -), Van Duinen 7 (89. Hadouir -), Hasselbaink 7,5.
Vitesse: Room 6,5; Leerdam 5, Kashia 5,5, Miazga (27. Büttner 5,5), Kruiswijk 5,5; Nakamba 6, Nathan 5,5 (63. Tighadouini -), Baker 5 (75. Zhang -); Rashica 5,5, Van Wolfswinkel 4,5, Foor 5.
Arbiter: Janssen 6
Man van de wedstrijd: Nigel Hasselbaink was zaterdagavond een ware plaag voor de defensie van Vitesse. Hoewel er meer dan één treffer achter zijn naam had mogen staan, liet hij wederom zien in een uitstekende vorm te verkeren. Met negen doelpunten beleeft de behendige aanvaller inmiddels zijn meest productieve seizoen ooit.

 

Nathan isn't English if you didn't realise. Baker seems to have been quieter in the second half of the season. Is it fair to say teams are targeting him more and trying to stifle him? I read an article a few months back that said opposition teams have started man marking him on corners even though he lurks 10 yards out of the blocks.

And any thoughts on Dan Crowley?

 

Sorry, I mixed up with the Chelsea thread.

Willem II – Go Ahead Eagles 2-0
Willem II: Lamprou 6,5; Ojo 5, Lachman 6, Peters 6, Van Anholt 5,5; Haye 6 (73. Schuurman -), Lieftink 4,5 (46. Sol 6,5), Kali 5, Croux 6; Falkenburg 5,5, Oulare 6.
Go Ahead Eagles: Zwarthoed 6; Groenbast 5,5, Fischer 5, Schenk 6,5, Achenteh 6 (80. De Kogel -); Chirivella 6, Crowley 5,5, Duits 6 (80. Rexhepi -), Ritzmaier 6; Antonia 5, Hendriks 5,5.
Arbiter: Manschot 5,5

I donot understand the Arsenal policy to loan him to Go Ahead Eagles. That team is in a constant battle with relegation, so hardly a place for a player looking for a steady surrounding to develop.
But then again, a club higher up the table isnot going to be easier. The top talent Odegaard from Real Madrid landed in Heerenveen and is riding the bench as he made the team worse instead of better. But according to former coaches that was the fault of Real Madrid. One might think Real Madrid has a top academy. Bergdølmo, now coach of Ullensaker Kisa, but before at the Norwegian club of Ødegaard, gives them a kick in the nuts in an interview with the Spanish news paper AS:
The current coach of the Norwegian Ullensaker Kisa is pleased that the Norwegian super talent in January moved to Heerenveen.
"At Real Madrid Castilla he has developed, but at Heerenveen he really has learned what it means to be a professional footballer. I think he mostly done much weight training at Real Madrid. "
Bergdølmo, who played around 66 Eredivisie matches played between 2000 and 2003, sees his compatriot in Friesland making progress. "Heerenveen is the only club where he really learned something."
Ex Heerenveen coach GJ Verbeek said one could see he has been wasting two years and wasnot playingat a high enough level.

One thing is for sure, the developmental skills are very good at any club in the Eredivisie, so maybe Arsenal thinks the combination of playing plus the developmental skills is going to benefit him. Eredivisie clubs, even when in relegation battle are always trying to play combination football and avoid as much as possible hoofing the ball. So in that respect Crowley as a midfielder is in a place to learn as much in tactics as in technical sense, because he will have many ball contacts as a result of the Dutch way of thinking about football and faces most of the time stronger opponents that arenot hoofing the ball too. Donot read too much in his rating yet, as he is just here since the winter break and typically our philosophy needs getting used to.

 

By the way, the leading Dutch football magazine Voetbal International rated Crowley in the Willem II match with a 7 out of 10.

 

There's a book been released today by Michael Calvin called ' No hunger in Paradise ' which might interest a few posters here, especially from an English prospective with regard to Youth Development in England. Obviously I've not read it yet and will try and order but just thought this might intrigue a few guys here as it seems to involve Parents, Coaches, Agents and there roles in Youth Development.

 

Yeah that's where I heard about it but its something of personal interest for myself due to my past experiences of playing in a Center of Excellence for a professional Club quite a few years ago and it was one of the worst experiences I had during Childhood which nearly destroyed my love for football.

 

I've bought this book and will read it on holiday next week, Calvin's previous books are all excellent reads so am looking forward to this one. Family, The Nowhere Men and Living on a Volcano are all worth reading if anyone hasn't

 

Wow, that's bad! The Dutch FA, the KNVB recently changed rules for kids, so to make sure they enjoy the game. One of them was that parents/spectators/coaches cannot stond closer than about 25 meters to the pitch, so they cannot yell at the kids.

 

What about the experience was so off-putting? I'm guessing you want to keep the identity of the club to yourself?

 

I'm about a third of the way through it and it's typically very good, bringing much-needed light and discussion to the very unsavoury side of youth football that we all know exists, but deserves much more attention being thrust upon it to ensure that these thousands of children are suitably looked after in every regard.

 

I think they have started to do similar over in England but not 100% on that or maybe it's up to the Clubs to decide as I'm sure my mate told me they do that at there Club.

 

I just wasn't prepared all those years ago ( about 25 years ago )for the change of playing with my mates and having fun to be to join a professional Club and understanding the seriousness of the situation, I just wasn't prepared mentally for the change. I went from having Coaches that just wanted us to have fun which we did and we were a very good club side, the best in our County to having Coaches ( or more specifically a Coach ) that yelled and shouted if we made a mistake and in fact on one occasion I remember a Coffee Cup ( or tea, can't quite remember) being flown across the Changing Room. All this was quite a shock to the system for myself and other young lads who just were not used to this, maybe we had sheltered upbringings I don't know, think we were 13 or 14 at the time. Some could handle it better than others for sure, mainly the more street wise Characters but some of us it had a more lasting effect. For myself, being yelled at on a regular basis had disastrous consequences for my self-belief and confidence that it lead me to feign injuries and even play badly just so I was dropped. I would be happy if I was on the bench and delighted if I didn't get on the pitch just to save myself from being yelled at. I mean that's just terrible looking back on it and I wish I had really talked to my parents about how I felt but just didn't want to let them down I guess. Put it this way, I was very happy when a game was postponed or cancelled and I compare that with when I was playing Club football with my old team, I would be gutted because I loved playing for them. I don't know, maybe it's just the harsh reality of the environment as a professional player that the Coach was trying to prepare me for but I think I could of handled the situation better in my later teens but in my young teens I really wasn't ready. The whole incident put me off football for a year until some other mates of mine eventually persuaded me to join there team who actually weren't very good but I started to enjoy football again and actually ended up being picked up by a semi pro team that I played for before serious injury forced me to quit the game early. Anyway that's a basic run down of my experiences and hope others had a more enjoyable time during development than I did.

 

That isn't just you being sheltered. The verbal stuff is bordering on child abuse, and throwing a cup across a changing room is plain assault.

 

Yeah well it was an unpleasant experience that I wouldn't want any other kids to go through but it was quite a long time ago so even though these situations clearly still exist I just hope it's a lot less.

 

Same. No kid should go through that and I'm sorry that you did.

 

This extract is quite telling.

Compare and contrast

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-youth-development-england-shouting-screaming