The Big, Bad Bob Kraft Thread

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by MM66, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    'Member how Dempsey's "replacement" was Andy Dorman, a guy who was already on the team?

    How different would this discussion be if they had signed Kouassi, and paid the (small, IIRC) transfer fee and had him join the team right away. Instead, they waited until the end of the season when he was free, but in that time, he suffered a serious injury and was never the same player we saw in his highlight reel.
     
  2. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    No, the problem was that he didn't put his rehab first - he wanted to play for the USNT, so he didn't rehab properly.

    Everyone has their loyalties - my point on that is that the Revs/Burns had every reason to be cautious, since he showed how much he favored his NT career over his club obligations.
    First rule of negotiation (or one of them), if one side's offer is way too high, you offer way too low - because the next round of offers will be in the middle. Every team wants to get players signed as cheaply as possible - this one didn't fail to reach an agreement because the Revs stood firm, it was because Jones wouldn't budge.
    The problem in my book is that they failed to replace him with enough quality, not that they didn't re-sign him (Jones). They had some really bad luck with Kouassi, but still have never found a player anywhere near the Joseph/Jones level in that position.
    For one, I don't recall Farrell's salary, but I don't think it's low-cost by MLS standards (right backs generally aren't big earners).

    Second, I'm probably as frustrated by his play as you or anyone else, but the question is when do you give up on the guy? I think he's got the physical ability and skills to be an outstanding defender, with attacking ability - but he just hasn't progressed as he should have and still is lacking in decision-making IMO. He's probably a victim of poor coaching as much as anything. At this point, I'm guessing that Friedel thinks he can make him a better player.

    So, should we be spending to get a better right back (after we just used capital to get a better left back and central defender)? Or should we use those resources elsewhere (like for that Jermaine Jones replacement!).

    And, for the record, I never said I "despise" Jermaine Jones. Quite the contrary, I admire him and am grateful that he came to the Revs.
     
  3. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ve watched it literally 100s of times across my career: Companies accommodate certain employees because they realize they are worse off without them than with them. As soon as they have clearly established a work around they ruthlessly dump the employee. The Revs for some reason choose to be worse off and never (rarely) establish the workaround. I’ve said, across 2 or 3 posts now, that JJ was unlikely to return under any circumstance. We seem to agree on that point. So let’s drop the JJ specific bashing/praising. The REVs consciously chose a big step backward in talent with no clear path to replacing the talent. They do that almost every time. JJ’s determination to go elsewhere doesn’t change Mike Burns behavior. He burned the bridge in my opinion and had no good plan for a replacement.

    Anyway, I’m done with the JJ discussion. We’re just going to circle around how much of a bad apple he was or wasn’t.

    Exactly. Again, they almost always take the big step backwards before having a replacement. Then they fail to adequately replace and never in a timely manner.

    If the organization is working at all (hint, my argument is that it is NOT), you don’t watch Farrell flail at right back for this long. What is it? 5 years? More? At this point, I don’t care if he is playing pro-bono. He’s an even larger disappointment if his “isn’t low cost by MLS standards.”

    C, none of the above. They should be using more resources EVERYWHERE. That includes at right back. You won’t agree but the REVs break down like this in my opinion:

    MLS Quality Starters: 1 = Gil
    MLS Quality Starters Probation: 3 - Mancienne, Penilla, Castillo
    Not MLS Quality Starters: Everyone Else.

    Penilla looks a step down from last year, Mancienne has not lived up to his price tag, Castillo hasn’t show it yet either. I’m not interested in arguing salary budget (salary “loose guidance”). They need to spend more money across the board. Adding in good coaching would help too.

    Nice to hear. I don’t know what you could possibly have said to convince me otherwise.
     
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  4. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Only one question really matters: when will Kraft sell the Revs?
     
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  5. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    This exactly. We can argue for days about who does/doesn't qualify for which category, but the short of it is the revs dont have 11 starting quality players om their roster. Heck, I regularly argue they dont have 11 players who regularly make an MLS 18. Too many guys are projects, with starter quality ability but no track record of consistently playing 20 minutes at that level
     
  6. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    From one of the recent discussions of a MLS Best Players article, it really continues to be debatable whether the Revs have any player in Top 10 in the league at their position, with possible exception of Gil, and even with him you can easily find vigorously opposed opinions on that.

    Any team can get lucky at times; but with a considerable talent deficit, no amount of heart and luck will sustain a team for very long when up against better opponents week after week.
     
  7. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you had better players, Jonathan Kraft couldn't rave about how the Revs are over-achievers.
     
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  8. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As soon as a billionaire in another city decides this is the best way to get into MLS and makes a big enough offer.
     
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  9. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I'm so desperate that I'll settle for that. Does he give the new buyer a hand job discount?
     
  10. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He said "in another city." I know this is a total train wreck here, particularly after yesterday's result and the lack of them ever doing anything to change it, but you really think we'd be better off if the Revs moved to St. Louis or Detroit or Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan than what we have here? Remember when we would complain about the same stuff we've been complaining about for years, and people in Atlanta or Philly or wherever would say, "welp, at least you guys have a team, and that's better than what we have..."
     
  11. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    I'm ready to try it for a few years. This isnt the sonics or browns leaving in the middle of the night
     
  12. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But there's the rub. Who says we'll get another team when there's some place out in the hinterlands who has a motivated, committed owner is bidding against a Boston group who still needs to get a stadium built.

    Put another way, is Seattle ever getting their NBA team back? The Sounders filled that vacuum pretty nicely, and they are also getting an NHL team, so if you're a big NBA fan in Seattle, that's pretty tough. Are you really going to start rooting for the Blazers?
     
  13. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I expect Seattle will get an NBA team in the next few years. As far as I understand, it's first in line for expansion (which seems likely given the league's popularity and the depth of the player pool).

    If you're in a pair of cement shoes and at the bottom of the river, the proper response isn't "Hey, at least I've got shoes."
     
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