As always, thoughts very much appreciated on the best players of the season. Any notable omissions, players who shouldn't have been included or more general thoughts. Goalkeeper Angelo Peruzzi Gianluca Pagliuca Fabien Barthez Bodo Ilgner Oliver Kahn Peter Schmeichel Edwin van der Sar Andreas Kopke Ed de Goey Stefan Klos Jacques Songo’o Nigel Martyn Luca Marchegiani David Seaman Filip De Wilde Full-back Roberto Carlos Luis Enrique Gary Neville Thomas Helveg Stig Inge Bjornebye Julian Dicks Dario Simic Antonio Benarrivo Jocelyn Angloma Ze Maria Paolo Negro Paulinho Santos Centre-back Jurgen Kohler Lilian Thuram Ciro Ferrara Paolo Montero Fabio Cannavaro Fernando Hierro Rafael Alkorta Tony Adams Sol Campbell Frank Leboeuf Jens Nowotny Christian Worns Jaap Stam Frank de Boer Ronald Koeman Lothar Matthaus Frank Verlaat Olaf Thon Alessandro Nesta Roberto Rios Noureddine Naybet Sinisa Mihajlovic Eric van Meir Defensive midfielder Didier Deschamps David Batty Dino Baggio Slavisa Jokanovic Nicky Butt Mauro Silva Central midfielder Juan Sebastian Veron Pep Guardiola Paul Ince Roberto Di Matteo Clarence Seedorf Vladimir Jugovic Roy Keane Par Zetterburg Radek Beijbl Sylvain Legwinski Giancarlo Marrocchi Giovanni van Bronckhorst Attacking midfielder Rivaldo Youri Djorkaeff Zinedine Zidane Juninho Ali Benarbia Dariusz Wosz Krasimir Balakov Philip Cocu Ronald de Boer Japhet N’Doram Jose Caminero Andreas Herzog Gheorghe Hagi Andrei Tikhonov Paul Gascoigne Winger David Beckham Luis Figo Javier Zanetti Robert Jarni Finidi George Ibrahim Ba Gaston Taument Angelo Di Livio Ryan Giggs Bolo Zenden Diego Fuser Steve McManaman Pavel Nedved Brian Laudrup Forward Alessandro Del Piero Roberto Mancini Raul Gianfranco Zola Mark Hughes Dennis Bergkamp Predrag Mijatovic Victor Ikpeba Eric Cantona Paulo Sergio Marcio Amoroso Sergiy Rebrov Victor Striker Ronaldo Alfonso Davor Suker Oli Filippo Inzaghi Vincenzo Montella Abel Balbo Alan Shearer Ian Wright Robbie Fowler Sonny Anderson Ulf Kirsten Fredi Bobic Toni Polster Giovane Elber Ole Gunnar Solskjaer Luc Nilis Mario Jardel Jorge Cadete Jurgen Klinsmann Hakan Sukur Robert Spehar Stephane Guivarc’h Oliver Bierhoff
Some names that came to mind as possible additions: Aljosa Asanovic (CM or arguably AM) Patrik Berger (Forward) J-J Okocha (AM/CM) George Weah (Striker)
Maybe also: Patrick Vieira (CM) Ivan de la Pena (CM) Robert Pires (Winger) Benito Carbone (I think forward rather than winger probably, but video below can help maybe) - btw DBS Calcio doesn't show his rating on season summary page as like Zola he joined mid-season almost, wheras Berger did play just too few games it seems, but I don't know why Asanovic seems to be missing too, unless I missed his name, as he had 6.2 (also mentioned in a thread Puck started I noticed, but I'd already have had him in mind as I mentioned on the Euro 96 thread).
I think maybe Fernando Redondo as a DM too (I know Capello praised him, and it seems he was Real Madrid Player of the Year if Wiki can be trusted - with no clickable link).
For England there's a thread now (with many different perspectives). Unfortunately no detailed OPTA data for 1996-97 although they have as top assisters Cantona, Ardley, Bergkamp, Hinchcliffe, McAllister and Zola (in that order). There is also DBScalcio with Batty, Campbell, Bergkamp, Juninho, Pembridge, Roy Keane and Merson at the top (6.50 or higher). Zola his average is also within that group but he changed teams after the start of season and wasn't graded in enough games? As I 'concluded' in the Premier League ratings thread if I have to pick out one it is Zola but that is not to say other players were perhaps (perhaps...) more influential or important. Of course some of the votes and reviews took place right after the England game etc. and perhaps even more so than today personality and a spontaneous appearance helped (some of the 'broadsheet' press seemed to be very aware of this, and how that mechanic worked). Spain is comparatively 'easier' because both RM and FCB had results-wise a strong season. One of the stronger seasons by both teams between the turn to democracy (~1980) and until the CR7/LM10 era started. Interestingly Don Balon did include three Deportivo players in their ideal XI (doesn't look entirely unjust) next to three FCB and RM players. Results isn't always the same as (individual) quality, in the eyes of observers. Those Depor players were Songo'o (goalkeeper), Naybet and Rivaldo. Italy: I have also something from Guerin Sportivo for 1996-97. That will help in discovering/seeing more players I think (will upload this).
I had those scans already saved: Then there are also two pages with doubtful cases (in blue) and flops (in red). If necessary I can upload this one too. (not in any order below) Blue: Beiersdorfer (Reggiana) Carr (Reggiana) Grun (Reggiana) Hatz (Reggiana) Pacheco (Reggiana) Sabau (Reggiana) Simutenkov (Reggiana) Valencia (Reggiana) Reiziger (Milan) Desailly (Milan) Costacurta (Milan) Trotta (Roma) Fonseca (Roma) Lorenzo Amoruso (Fiorentina) Kanchelskis (Fiorentina) Winter (Lazio) Fresi (Internazionale) Caio (Napoli) Bravo (Parma) Bucci (Perugia) [as you might've guessed: they strongly think the faults at Reggiana were possibly not the defects of the players] Red: Boksic (Juventus) Rossi (Milan) Davids (Milan) Savicevic (Milan) Maldini (Milan) Toldo (Fiorentina) Batistuta (Fiorentina) Oliveira (Fiorentina) Sforza (Internazionale) Beto (Napoli) Apollini (Parma) Pascolo (Cagliari) Rapajc (Perugia)
So this was what I came up with: Goalkeeper Angelo Peruzzi (Juventus and Italy) 29 games, 0 goals *** Gianluca Pagliuca (Inter and Italy) 34 games, 0 goals *** Fabien Barthez (Monaco and France) 36 games, 0 goals ** Oliver Kahn (Bayern Munich and Germany) 32 games, 0 goals ** Andreas Kopke (Marseille and Germany) 35 games, 0 goals ** Peter Schmeichel (Manchester United and Denmark) 36 games, 0 goals * Edwin van der Sar (Ajax and Netherlands) 33 games, 0 goals * Ed de Goey (Feyenoord and Netherlands) 34 games, 0 goals * Stefan Klos (Borussia Dortmund and Germany) 34 games, 0 goals * Jacques Songo’o (Deportivo la Coruna and Cameroon) 37 games, 0 goals * Nigel Martyn (Leeds and England) 37 games, 0 goals * Luca Marchegiani (Lazio and Italy) 32 games, 0 goals * Bodo Ilgner (Real Madrid and Germany) 40 games, 0 goals * Filip De Wilde (Sporting Lisbon and Belgium) 31 games, 0 goals * Gianluigi Buffon (Parma and Italy) 27 games, 0 goals * David Seaman (Arsenal and England) 22 games, 0 goals * Full-back Roberto Carlos (Real Madrid and Brazil) 37 games, 4 goals *** Antonio Benarrivo (Parma and Italy) 22 games, 1 goal * Gary Neville (Manchester United and England) 31 games, 1 goals * Thomas Helveg (Udinese and Denmark) 31 games, 1 goal * Stig Inge Bjornebye (Liverpool and Norway) 38 games, 2 goals * Julian Dicks (West Ham and England) 31 games, 6 goals * Dario Simic (Croatia Zagreb and Croatia) 26 games, 6 goals * Jocelyn Angloma (Inter and France) 30 games, 1 goal * Ze Maria (Parma and Brazil) 25 games, 1 goal * Paolo Negro (Lazio and Italy) 27 games, 3 goals * Paulinho Santos (Porto and Portugal) 31 games, 0 goals * Jorg Heinrich (Borussia Dortmund and Germany) 33 games, 4 goals * Christian Ziege (Bayern Munich and Germany) 27 games, 7 goals * Centre-back Lilian Thuram (Parma and Italy) 34 games, 1 goal *** Jurgen Kohler (Borussia Dortmund and Germany) 30 games, 2 goals *** Fernando Hierro (Real Madrid and Spain) 39 games, 6 goals *** Ciro Ferrara (Juventus and Italy) 32 games, 4 goals ** Paolo Montero (Juventus and Uruguay) 26 games, 0 goals ** Fabio Cannavaro (Parma and Italy) 27 games, 0 goals ** Rafael Alkorta (Real Madrid and Spain) 40 games, 0 goals * Tony Adams (Arsenal and England) 28 games, 3 goals * Sol Campbell (Tottenham and England) 38 games, 0 goals * Jens Nowotny (Bayer Leverkusen and Germany) 32 games, 0 goals * Christian Worns (Bayer Leverkusen and Germany) 33 games, 1 goals * Jaap Stam (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 33 games, 6 goals * Frank de Boer (Ajax and Netherlands) 32 games, 4 goals * Ronald Koeman (Feyenoord and Netherlands) 30 games, 9 goals * Lothar Matthaus (Bayern Munich and Germany) 28 games, 1 goal * Frank Verlaat (Stuttgart and Netherlands) 27 games, 4 goals * Olaf Thon (Schalke and Germany) 33 games, 2 goals * Alessandro Nesta (Lazio and Italy) 25 games, 0 goals * Roberto Rios (Real Betis and Spain) 36 games, 3 goals * Noureddine Naybet (Deportivo la Coruna and Morocco) 34 games, 1 goal * Sinisa Mihajlovic (Sampdoria and Yugoslavia) 28 games, 2 goals * Eric van Meir (Lierse and Belgium) 30 games, 16 goals * Frank Leboeuf (Chelsea and France) 26 games, 6 goals HM Chris Perry (Wimbledon and England) 37 games, 1 goal HM Defensive midfielder Didier Deschamps (Juventus and France) 26 games, 1 goal *** David Batty (Newcastle and England) 32 games, 1 goal * Dino Baggio (Parma and Italy) 31 games, 2 goals * Slavisa Jokanovic (Tenerife and Yugoslavia) 30 games, 10 goals * Zvonimir Soldo (Stuttgart and Croatia) 27 games, 3 goals * Nicky Butt (Manchester United and England) 26 games, 5 goals * Mauro Silva (Deportivo la Coruna and Brazil) 32 games, 0 goals * Patrick Vieira (Arsenal and France) 31 games, 2 goals * Central midfielder Clarence Seedorf (Real Madrid and Netherlands) 38 games, 6 goals *** Juan Sebastian Veron (Sampdoria and Argentina) 32 games, 4 goals ** Fernando Redondo (Real Madrid and Argentina) 33 games, 1 goal ** Pep Guardiola (Barcelona and Spain) 38 games, 0 goals ** Paul Ince (Inter and England) 24 games, 7 goals * Roberto Di Matteo (Chelsea and Italy) 34 games, 7 goals * Vladimir Jugovic (Juventus and Yugoslavia) 30 games, 6 goals * Roy Keane (Manchester United and Republic of Ireland) 21 games, 2 goals * Par Zetterburg (Anderlecht and Sweden) 32 games, 12 goals * Radek Beijbl (Atletico Madrid and Czech Republic) 33 games, 2 goals * Sylvain Legwinski (Monaco and France) 37 games, 9 goals * Giancarlo Marrocchi (Bologna and Italy) 33 games, 4 goals * Philip Cocu (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 8 goals * Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord and Netherlands) 34 games, 4 goals HM Attacking midfielder Rivaldo (Deportivo la Coruna and Brazil) 41 games, 21 goals *** Youri Djorkaeff (Inter and France) 33 games, 14 goals *** Zinedine Zidane (Juventus and France) 29 games, 5 goals ** Juninho (Middlesbrough and Brazil) 35 games, 12 goals ** Dariusz Wosz (Bochum and Germany) 32 games, 9 goals ** Krasimir Balakov (Stuttgart and Bulgaria) 31 games, 13 goals ** Ali Benarbia (Monaco and Algeria) 35 games, 3 goals * Ronald de Boer (Ajax and Netherlands) 28 games, 5 goals * Jose Caminero (Atletico Madrid and Spain) 30 games, 14 goals * Andreas Herzog (Werder Bremen and Austria) 29 games and 15 goals * Gheorghe Hagi (Galatasaray and Romania) 30 games, 14 goals * Andrei Tikhonov (Spartak Moscow and Russia) 34 games, 16 goals * Leonardo (PSG and Brazil) 32 games, 7 goals * Paul Gascoigne (Rangers and England) 26 games, 13 goals * Andreas Moller (Borussia Dortmund and Germany) 26 games, 5 goals * Jay-Jay Okocha (Fenerbahce and Nigeria) 33 games, 16 goals * Rui Costa (Fiorentina and Portugal) 28 games, 2 goals * Ivan De La Pena (Barcelona and Spain) 33 games, 2 goals HM Winger David Beckham (Manchester United and England) 36 games, 8 goals ** Angelo Di Livio (Juventus and Italy) 32 games, 1 goal ** Luis Enrique (Barcelona and Spain) 35 games, 17 goals ** Luis Figo (Barcelona and Portugal) 36 games, 4 goals * Finidi George (Real Betis and Nigeria) 36 games, 10 goals * Ibrahim Ba (Bordeaux and France) 35 games, 6 goals * Gaston Taument (Feyenoord and Netherlands) 34 games, 13 goals * Diego Fuser (Lazio and Italy) 31 games, 4 goals * Steve McManaman (Liverpool and England) 37 games, 7 goals * Ryan Giggs (Manchester United and Wales) 26 games, 3 goals * Javier Zanetti (Inter and Argentina) 33 games, 3 goals * Robert Jarni (Real Betis and Croatia) 36 games, 5 goals * Pavel Nedved (Lazio and Czech Republic) 32 games, 7 goals * Brian Laudrup (Rangers and Denmark) 33 games, 16 goals * Bolo Zenden (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 8 goals * Robert Pires (Metz and France) 33 games, 11 goals HM Forward Roberto Mancini (Sampdoria and Italy) 33 games, 15 goals *** Raul (Real Madrid and Spain) 42 games, 20 goals *** Gianfranco Zola (Parma/Chelsea and Italy) 8 games, 2 goals for Parma, 23 games, 8 goals for Chelsea *** Giuseppe Signori (Lazio and Italy) 32 games, 15 goals ** Japhet N’Doram (Nantes and Chad) 35 games, 21 goals** Dennis Bergkamp (Arsenal and Netherlands) 29 games, 12 goals ** Predrag Mijatovic (Real Madrid and Yugoslavia) 38 games, 14 goals * Victor Ikpeba (Monaco and Nigeria) 31 games, 13 goals * Eric Cantona (Manchester United and France) 36 games, 11 goals * Igor Kolyvanov (Bologna and Russia) 27 games, 11 goals * Paulo Sergio (Bayer Leverkusen and Brazil) 33 games, 17 goals * Alessandro Del Piero (Juventus and Italy) 22 games, 8 goals * Marcio Amoroso (Udinese and Brazil) 26 games, 12 goals * Mark Hughes (Chelsea and Wales) 35 games, 8 goals * Sergiy Rebrov (Dynamo Kiev and Ukraine) 30 games, 20 goals * Victor (Valladolid and Spain) 42 games, 16 goals * Dwight Yorke (Aston Villa and Trinidad and Tobago) 37 games, 17 goals * Striker Ronaldo (Barcelona and Brazil) 37 games, 34 goals *** Alfonso (Real Betis and Spain) 41 games, 25 goals ** Davor Suker (Real Madrid and Croatia) 38 games, 24 goals ** Filippo Inzaghi (Atalanta and Italy) 33 games, 24 goals ** Alan Shearer (Newcastle United and England) 31 games, 25 goals ** Vincenzo Montella (Sampdoria and Italy) 28 games, 22 goals ** Ian Wright (Arsenal and England) 35 games, 23 goals ** Sonny Anderson (Monaco and Brazil) 34 games, 19 goals ** Ulf Kirsten (Bayer Leverkusen and Germany) 29 games, 22 goals ** Robbie Fowler (Liverpool and England) 32 games, 18 goals ** Oli (Real Oviedo and Spain) 41 games, 20 goals * Fredi Bobic (Stuttgart and Germany) 33 games, 19 goals * Toni Polster (Koln and Austria) 32 games, 21 goals * Giovane Elber (Stuttgart and Brazil) 31 games, 17 goals * Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (Manchester United and Norway) 32 games, 18 goals * Luc Nilis (PSV Eindhoven and Belgium) 26 games, 21 goals * Mario Jardel (Porto and Brazil) 31 games, 30 goals * Jorge Cadete (Celtic and Portugal) 31 games, 25 goals * Jurgen Klinsmann (Bayern Munich and Germany) 33 games, 15 goals * Hakan Sukur (Galatasaray and Turkey) 32 games, 38 goals * Robert Spehar (Club Brugge and Croatia) 27 games, 26 goals * Stephane Guivarc’h (Stade Rennais and France) 36 games, 22 goals * Oliver Bierhoff (Udinese and Germany) 23 games, 13 goals * Maurizio Ganz (Inter and Italy) 30 games, 11 goals * Abel Balbo (Roma and Argentina) 30 games, 17 goals * George Weah (Milan and Liberia) 28 games, 13 goals HM Fabrizio Ravanelli (Middlesbrough and Italy) 33 games, 16 goals HM Alain Caveglia (Lyon and France) 32 games, 19 goals HM
Other players close to a *** rating were Veron, Zidane, Beckham, Suker, Ferrara and Inzaghi. Was torn on all of them. Zola the player luckiest to get his third star.
On what basis is Beckham close to three stars. Struggle to see that really. He had much better and productive seasons (better graded and rated too) later on.
Young player of the year, picked by everyone for the Rothmans team of the year, nominated for player of the year. I agree he had seasons with more assists.
Got it. Didn't check his appearance tally since I saw him at 10th in the Ballon d'Or in 1997, after winning it in 1996 for his Euro win with Germany.
This is an article that covers many of my sentiments: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...manchester-united-wimbledon-1996-halfway-line Also, Signori so high is surprising (15 goals with 4 pens). His grades are below 6.00.
Good article. Smyth is very good I find. But what about this bit: With the exception of the Treble year, this was easily his best campaign at United. He won the Young Player of the Year award and finished second to Alan Shearer in the senior award. It was also the only time he won the Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year award at United. But he didn’t, as everybody predicted, win Goal of the Season: that went to Trevor Sinclair for his staggering overhead kick against Barnsley.
His book on Danish dynamite was very good but I absolutely despise his comments on Dutch football or the remark where he equates Cruijff with Barry Ferguson. Cheap pop shots. He won't write such articles on the Germans or Brazilians because that would jeopardize his journalistic network and cozy relationship with colleagues ("put your mouth where the money is"). It takes more courage to do that. He takes the easy targets, the peripheral targets. That is also my problem with Jonathan Wilson (who you also like). Was it really his 2nd best campaign though? His grades were better in later years; his assists were far better in later years (not unimportant for a winger); his ESM selections were better in later years; all those UEFA honors came in later years (although that doesn't say much). On the other hand it was the only ManUnited player of the year honors like Smyth says and also the only season where he was player of the month.
I'm not really aware of that, but I'm probably less attuned to it than yourself. All I mean is I like the way he writes, he has a nice style generally. Difficult to say really. I always think with Beckham it's difficult to strip out the celebrity and popularity from the reality. This was certainly a very good year for him. One of the best in his United career.
I don't think I said it before mate, but I wonder whether the Cruyff/Ferguson comment was a British-style joke - with the implication that Cruyff was miles better than Ferguson included in the joke but perhaps not obvious to everyone. So maybe it seems upsetting to you because his humour is hard to interpret (not because you have a lack of English language skills in general ofc). I remember that that season Beckham often drifted infield and I guess that's reflected in his goals tally. But his role as prolific assister was really honed in later seasons indeed I think (not by improving his ability as such though I'd say).
Zidane is indeed a good shout for bumping up to a *** rating for 96/97, Balon d'Or 1997 - 3rd place Serie A Foreign Player of the Year for 1997 2 times ESM Team of the Month for 96/97 2 goals and 6 assists in 10 games in the CL in 96/97
I think what probably cost him/put that in doubt was his consistency. I know this is something we discussed a few years ago but if you look at his rating in Puck's pages above it is quite a bit lower than some of the top players in the division. Here is what the European Football Yearbook said: It was never going to be easy for Zinedine Zidane at Juventus. Comparisons with the great Michel Platini were inevitable. But once he found his feet in Turin - and it didn't take long - Zizou gave a more than favourable account of himself, and by the end of the season the Juve fans were positively drooling about his elaborate technique and fancy skills. He did not always hit the top notes, but when he did - for example against Inter in Serie A and Ajax in the Champions League - the Frenchman made sweet music indeed.
He he, guess you are becoming the anti-Ballon d'Or what with giving the 2nd place in the Ballon d'OR a * rating and the 3rd place a ** rating while rating the lower places higher. I had seen the ratings Puck shared (had repped him for those although I was aware of them from having seen them in a football ratings blog earlier) and while I do like to consider them, I feel that they ultimately reflect only a single publication's views and are thus superceded by more widely voted aspects like the ones I mentioned above, that Zidane had in his favour in 96/97. Also and more importantly, the nature of averaging means that things like getting red-carded in a game (which would often earn you a very poor 5 or 4) would impact the entire season's performances of a player. Not saying the red cards don't affect your team negatively, but often they affect the ratings so that those don't reflect the actual performance by the player. Zidane had two such sending-offs in that season which probably dragged him down quite a bit on the averages. Also, if you are focusing on the Guerrin d'Oro ratings to base your ratings on, then Rui Costa probably deserves a bump up from * to ** and you probably want to add Taibi to the GK's list at a minimum of **.
Players not yet discussed that I might be inclined to think could merit a bump up of one * might be Figo and Brian Laudrup. But I don't want to have too much influence on these lists (with the lack sometimes of other contributors) and I know comme really requires enough influence/output which I can understand (and I have no issues with Weah just being HM and Asanovic not in etc etc). Laudrup did get full recognition for 94/95 anyway of course.
Thanks. Yes, it was perhaps a joke but regardless of that I still feel that the content of some of his articles are rather unbalanced and going for the easy route (the route of the least resistance; a hidden trait of broadsheet papers in general). Although he had also some rather more complimentary articles, even though also there some jibes and references to earlier hatchet jobs. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-stunning-moments-dennis-bergkamp-wonder-goal It's the same with Wilson who e.g. (for example) mentions legal drug use by the Russians and Dutch in his book and articles, which is like the world and reality turned on its head, some sort of parallel universe, totally losing the hard evidence out of sight. He mentions a supposed and implied advantage that was in reality a relative disadvantage. I do like his short movies on youtube however. Yes, you made me aware that 1995 - 2005 is his window rather than 2000 - 2010. When I did that I'd already thought about 1995 - 2005 but indeed his contemporaries are not really Lampard/Gerrard/Ronaldinho. Of 1995 - 2005 as a whole I still feel it is between the original Ronaldo and Zidane basically (without rejecting all arguments expressed by e.g. leadleader on both players). edit: of the Beckham article I like how he describes the context. The 'optimistic' 1990s and such.
Also a good reminder here: https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2005/mar/11/sport.comment1? https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.the...alex-ferguson-manchester-united-greatest-team